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WikiProject Alternative Music Newsletter for August 2008

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter
Issue 17 - August 2008
"Oh, we've been called an alternative band before. But we eat meat, so I think we're disqualified: chili dogs, corn dogs, Jimmy Dean Sausage Breakfast."- Kurt Cobain
Project news
New members

Corythepaperboy, Hiram111, Yozzer66, and Lugnuts joined the alternative music fold during August.

Editors

User:WesleyDodds

SoxBot II (talk) 21:44, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Oops

Sorry about those hyphens. Not much point my learning a rule if I learn it the wrong way round! almost-instinct 07:57, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

The Von Bondies clean up

Could you please help me clean up their wiki page. I am a long standing fan of the band. They have had many feature articles written about them in publications such as spin, rolling stone, NME, blender and even the New yorker. If you could help me get their page in order so that it could receive a higher quality status i would really appreciate it. 68.43.143.58 (talk) 07:12, 17 September 2008 (UTC) suzie

Thank you so much for helping clean up the von bondies page. If you could randomly check on the page for errors i would really appreciate it. 68.43.143.58 (talk) 08:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)suzie

Breakin' Dishes

thanks for the info. Actually Breakin' Dishes is an already confirmed single. hence it should be directed to its own page, not to the Good Girl Gone Bad page. so tried to fix it, but the main page seems to have vanished. so can you please look into the matter and let me know asap? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Legolas2186 (talk • contribs) 09:31, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Could you please explain what you mean by "region restricted external link" as you stated here. I could not find it in WP:ELNO. Thanks, DoubleBlue (Talk) 15:19, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, thank you. How can one determine if a site is not accessible to users in other countries? DoubleBlue (Talk) 20:18, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Asian Paints Sharad Shamman

The logo is from a Flickr user webpage and is permitted. Could you please explain the process of uploading the image so that it doesnot get deleted? Legolas2186 (Talk) 09:55, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

True Blue

I just updated the picture size from 200px to 180px as it made the Charts section appear on one side of the page. --"Legolas" (talk) 12:10, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh sorry! Forgot about that. Thanks for the edit. Will keep that in mind for future edits --"Legolas" (talk) 12:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

DYK for List of David Bowie awards and nominations

Updated DYK query On 1 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article List of David Bowie awards and nominations, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 03:15, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Septimus Heap

Hi, since the characters for the Septimus Heap series were deleted, i am thinking can a single webpage be created where all the list of characters from the series and brief bio about them are included? will it be deleted also? --"Legolas" (talk) 06:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

But if they are included in the main page, the character description is very less. Hence i would suggest a comlpete character list atleast would be worthwhile for the description. Very brief bio should be placed in them. what do you say? --"Legolas" (talk) 06:45, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative Music Newsletter for September 2008

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter
Issue 18 - September 2008
"And suddenly the plane dropped to the right, then to the left, and the ground was right there. And all I could think was, Fuck, I didn’t finish "Fix You." That would have been my last thought: I didn’t get that chorus right."- Chris Martin
Project news
New members

ThinkBlue joined the alternative music fold during September.

Editors

User:WesleyDodds

SoxBot II (talk) 20:03, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

4:13 Dream

The dates are concise now. So if that's all you're concerned with stop reverting the article, especially a rewrite. Vixen Windstorm (talk) 14:13, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

You don't know what vandalism is sir. Vandalism is when you destroy an article or fill it with absurdities. This isn't even in good faith, all you keep reverting over is the way the dates are presented. And now you have the nerve to call me a vandal? I rewrote the article and you still completely reverted it over dates. I didn't blank the page or insert profanity or content completely unrelated to the album or the article. Therefore my edits do not constitute vandalism. You're taking the date changes personally and are confronting somebody you don't know with being a vandal so you can have it your way, when there isn't a case of vandalism here. Good album articles are do not include "Day Month, Year", they use "Month Day Year". Both are acceptable but the best articles use the latter. And Infoboxes use start date templates for their release dates. You have nothing on me for vandalism because I don't vandalize articles. All I've done was change the appearance of dates to look more appealing visually; you're the one who reverted an entire subsequent rewrite that disambiguated the previously giant lead over it. Unnecessary. So once again, I'll revert it, but because linking to dates is deprecated the dates won't have links anymore. And if you still want to revert it, well with concise and unlinked dates like you wished for (besides the dates in the Infobox which use the start date template) I guess there's absolutely no pleasing you. Vixen Windstorm (talk) 14:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Okay well I didn't know the review there was one by staff. As far as I knew Sputnikmusic was a place for any registered user to contribute album reviews. And yes, I am familiar with the guidelines, in fact I've noticed this is the reason why Sputnikmusic been removed as a review from Infoboxes of other various articles. Kraid (talk) 17:02, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Triple Crown jewels

Your majesty, it gives me great pleasure to bestow the Triple Crown upon JD554 for your contributions in the areas of WP:DYK, WP:GA, and WP:FA. Cirt (talk) 08:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for contributions to the project, Great work, especially on List of awards and nominations received by David Bowie - very well sourced, nice job. May you wear the crowns well. Cirt (talk) 08:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

List of awards and nominations received by David Bowie

See List of awards and nominations received by Bryan Adams or List of awards and nominations received by Metallica to see how a list is suppose to be. Frankli the lead is terrible. You should take a look at other award lists. --Be Black Hole Sun (talk) 14:59, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

THANKS FOR THE BLOCK, THANKS. :) Oh by the way the List of awards and nominations received by David Bowie looks great now. Be Black Hole Sun (talk · contribs)

Mark Waddington

I probably oversourced it... but with WP:BIO one must be sure. I have cleaned it up per MOS, removed peacock, removed circular links, sourced his television apearances and sourced his award. I think he squeeks in under WP:Entertainer now. Any advice or suggestions? Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 08:38, 10 October 2008 (UTC)


"Pictures of Sioux"

I just found out two sentences from Sioux, confirming that she doesn't want to appear on a picture smiling. This proves that this 86'pic is not welcome. In the SATB bio, she talked about her image "For Tv Performances, and stage shows, promotion...it was important for there to be nothing happy or jolly going on"(SATB bio by M.Paytress Page 71). In 1988, she stated : "I don't see the point of smiling in front of a camera. I don't like to be portrayed. I only find interesting the videos we make for our singles 'cse they have another dimension". (Sioux'Interview in Les inrockuptibles, oct 1988). So, this confirms that this picture shows her at her disavantage. Plus, it was taken not in concert but in private circumstances outside a hotel by a fan paparazzi. That's why wikipedia users prefer to chose pictures taken in concerts or during promo events. I talked about this issue on the Siouxsie'forum and everyone agrees with me. If I look at the other wiki pages, I saw that no one put awful Depeche mode pictures from 1984 when Martin gore wore SM bondage outfits topless for instance. There's also no pic of Robert Smith with a crucifix proving no matter what he stated about not being goth, he wore a goth look in 1984 in concert. For killing joke, a lot of pictures are archived on wikipedia and yet, the users found more relevant to put only one picture 'cse bio is about music. It's obvious that some users want to put some bands on a pedestal and others down. For this issue, members of Siouxsie'forums are on my sides. I can ask them to become users of the Siouxsie page if necessary.Carliertwo (talk) 16:58, 11 september 2008 (UTC)

Again, the image in question can be used per WP:FU policy, not whether or not Sioux herself "likes" it. If there was a fair use image of Depeche Mode, complete with Gore in S&M bondage outfits then that image could also be used. The members of a Sioux message board may agree with you but canvassing for a consensus is certainly not going to look good (I am however open to reopening the discussion on the Talk Page, provided there is no flood of new editors being directed from a forum). If there is a different and decent fair use image of Sioux that can be found then by all means upload it. We're not talking about an awful picture of her, say, with a big booger on her nose; she just happens to have a slight smirk on her face. I don't think this has anything to do with putting her on a pedestal or not. I saw a slew of photos taken when she had an in-store signing for the Mantaray album — she was joking, laughing, smiling and acting cheeky and obviously having fun.... if I happened to be there and took a picture with my own camera and gave permission to upload it to Wikipedia it would be the same scenario. eo (talk) 17:09, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

"Sioux issue"

You're invited to read the SATB Discussion page Carliertwo (talk) 18:58, 14 september 2008 (UTC)

"SATB discussion"

You can also read the posts I wrote to the 2 other users here [[1]] Carliertwo (talk) 16:58, 15 september 2008 (UTC)

British chart positions for Supergrass

Hi.

I was referred to you by User:WesleyDodds who said you have a chart book. I was wondering if you could look up chart positions for Supergrass? I'm currently working on Supergrass discography and have two "Everyhit" sources one of which is here (just go to the 1995 section). I need another one for Alright (Supergrass song). If you have these, please let me know.

Thanks, TwentiethApril1986 (want to talk?) 07:03, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

So just to confirm, that's the chart positions for singles going up to "Low C" and albums going up to "Road to Rouen"? TwentiethApril1986 (want to talk?) 07:50, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. One other thing, does this include the "Supergrass is 10" album? TwentiethApril1986 (want to talk?) 08:05, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Good news they're bringing

Could you go through The Smiths and cite chart positions where necessary? Also, I've noticed there's been a lull in your Bunnymen contributions lately. If you need help, feel free to ask. WesleyDodds (talk) 11:01, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Big favor: can you fill out and add references to the "Chart positions" section in Nevermind? It's one of the last things needed before it can be submitted as a Good Article nominee. There's plenty of sources at [[Nirvana discography] to use. WesleyDodds (talk) 09:00, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
For now, just work out the ones you are aware of the peak date, and list ones you are unsure about on your talk page. Also, don't worry about the singles chart peaks; there's so many to list that it's pointless to include when peopel can just go to the song pages. WesleyDodds (talk) 08:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

If Nevermind is a bit of a hassle, we could use help finishing up this. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:24, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

It's good to have you back. Have you read this yet? I could use your help. WesleyDodds (talk) 07:36, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Mainly need help getting diffs for FAs not maintained by a specific project member. Of the top ten selected articles, we need diffs for Radiohead, Pearl Jam, Nine Inch Nails, Oasis and U2; I've already selected diffs for R.E.M. and Grunge music, and I plan to do some work on Alternative rock and The Cure before adding a link. Basically take a look at any of those pages and if they're all right, add a diff to the list. If you see any problems, ask me or another project member for help. I've already started clean up work on Nine Inch Nails and I think Oasis will need a bit of fixing. Also, review any articles on that list that interest you and add a diff if everything looks ok. WesleyDodds (talk) 08:20, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Ok, here's something definitely up your alley: going through The Cure I realized I wrote most of it before it occured to me that providing references for chart positions was a pretty important thing to do. Could you go through and take care of all those? WesleyDodds (talk) 05:31, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
The Bauhaus discography needs to be split off. Care to do the honors? WesleyDodds (talk) 03:36, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
Another chart position favor: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. One of these days I'll find a way to reciprocate. WesleyDodds (talk) 08:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks so very much. Now I can put it up for a GA nom (unless you think there's something missing--please do say so if there is). Oddly enough I'm listening to "Tonight, Tonight" right now. WesleyDodds (talk) 11:01, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Interested in working on Unknown Pleasures or Echo & the Bunnymen with me? WesleyDodds (talk) 23:39, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Source-wise I have pretty much everything I need for Unknown Pleasures; the only one of those sources you listed I don't have is that Factory article. Oh, and I'd have to check out Touching From a Distance from the library or borrow it from my brother again, unless you own a copy. Ceoil has a draft page ready: User:Ceoil/Unknown. WesleyDodds (talk) 12:10, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
To speed up the process you can copy material from Joy Division. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:45, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Just for fun: what are some 1980s post-punk and alt-rock/indie bands you think are just plain crap? I'm watching VH1 Classic's 120 Minutes/The Alternative show right now, and it just reminds that we American sometimes liked some really horrible stuff back then that has not stood the test of time at all, particularly if it came from England (to think, there was a time when a decent amount of people liked Flesh for Lulu . . .). WesleyDodds (talk) 10:38, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

The trick to appreciating Scritti Politti is boiling down the group concept to the sentence "Michael Jackson makes a DIY cassette tape for the John Peel show". When you get to the more polished mid 80s stuff, the concept is "Michael Jackson does Janet Jackson's Control". Associates are alright; "White Car in Germany" is pretty good. How about Psychedelic Furs? In my opinion, they are both given too much credit and are somewhat underrated. Everything after Talk Talk Talk is worthless in my eyes, but they had some good songs. WesleyDodds (talk) 11:09, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
The original version of "Pretty in Pink" from Talk Talk Talk is far superior. Much less sax, for one. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:24, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Into Orange Juice at all? WesleyDodds (talk) 07:19, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
I just have to say: I really, really love this song. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:07, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
By the way, Ceoil told me he had a Mojo article about "The Killing Moon". He said he was going to send it my way, but that was a few weeks ago. WesleyDodds (talk) 11:12, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Need chart info for the Morrissey article. Thanks. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:51, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. ColdDick has reverted my cleanups over the article wholesale twice without noticing that I removed a lot of unsourced material, irrelevant facts, and bad sources, so watch out for that. WesleyDodds (talk) 05:28, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Another charts request: In Utero. I've checked out the 33 1/3 series book on the album, and I hope I can finally finish up the article soon. WesleyDodds (talk) 13:04, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you need to include those acoustic Cure videos from 2001. They're simply bonus material specifically filmed for the Greatest Hits DVD. WesleyDodds (talk) 12:09, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Try the band's website or seeing if the videos on YouTube list credits. WesleyDodds (talk) 12:43, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

This features an article on the making of Ocean Rain. I read it in a magazine store today; seemed kind of short, but you could probably get something out of it. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:41, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative Music Newsletter for October 2008

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter
Issue 19 - October 2008
"When we were trying to sell 'This Corrosion' to Steinman, we said it was like the high point of a Borgia disco evening and he went for it. Nobody makes gloriously stupid records anymore."- Andrew Eldritch
Project news
New members

SanePsychotic joined the alternative music fold during October.

Editors

User:WesleyDodds

SoxBot II (talk) 02:50, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

The Hawk is Howling

Can you please explain why you removed my addition to The Hawk is Howling article? I thought it was a perfectly valid and noteworthy piece of trivia.

Thanks. 77.98.151.43 (talk) 00:27, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Between the Wars EP

Thanks for moving the Between the Wars EP (Billy Bragg) article. I added the link to BTW in the Billy Bragg article but then didn't have the wiki mojo to move the BTW article. Kap42 (talk) 19:42, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Morrissey edits

Every single time you revert an edit on the Morrissey page you fail to notice or care if any changes have been made to the previous text. Updates have been made and HAVE been PROPERLY cited referencing new albums, new album release dates, new awards/recognition and new album chart positions. If you feel compelled to add more "credible" sources then so be it...however, do not completely disregard other people's time, effort and work just because you "like your edit better".

Morrissey's Wiki page has the burden of having to encompass a biography, a band (The Smiths), and a solo career all in one. Seeing as this is the case, removing the proper and accurate list of his record labels could be construed by some as vandalism. Moving a 1996 court case that deals with The Smiths from the Smiths section to the solo career section is hardly proper either. As long as you keep undoing proper and up to date edits in favor of outdated edits I will keep reverting them back where they belong. No one is stopping you from adding the "proper information"...just don't butcher the rest of the article in doing so. Is that TOO much to ask? TheColdDick (talk) 15:52, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Please be aware of Wikipedia's three-revert rule, here, if you aren't already familiar with it - either reach an agreement with TheColdDick on your talk pages, or consider taking it to Talk:Morrissey to get a wider consensus. Thanks. --McGeddon (talk) 16:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

You also need to research before you go off and make changes that suit your interpretation, the British vs English component was worked on by several editors...you are pushing POV.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.182.160.2 (talk • contribs) 00:25, 21 November 2008

Your edits look suspiciously similar to "another editor's" edits in the past few days at John Lydon specifically-- "Garik 11 (Talk | contribs) (31,426 bytes) (Being from England makes him English) (undo)" I suspect there may be some sockpuppetry here....either way please take your thoughts to the talk page and stop pushing POV.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.182.160.2 (talk • contribs) 15:49, 21 November 2008

Would you mind summarising your reasons for your reverts here, for the benefit of other editors, when you've got a moment? The current stalemate of "no, you take it to the talk page" isn't very productive. --McGeddon (talk) 16:07, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

re: The Smiths discography

No problem, I figured it would show up there this morning, I probably should have waited. I just threw it in there as I was looking at the new charts. - eo (talk) 13:47, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

Hi. You reverted an edit I did on the article Viva la Vida or Death and All His Friends. I'm not being agressive in writing here, I just wanted to discuss it as I am not a hugely experienced editor. I had done a previous edit on the article which had been reverted because I was unaware of the WP:Albums policy of having no more than 10 professional reviews in an infobox, but the piece of information you later reverted (that the album was number one selling of the year in 36 countries) had been taken out at the same time and I wanted to replace it. You reverted it because it did not explicitaly say this in the source, but common sense tells us it has to be only the best selling album of the year as it is not the best selling album of all time. I would like to here what you have to say as an experienced Wikipedia user. Thanks very much. Tommer312 (talk) 20:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Seventeen Seconds

Ah, no problem. Quickly glancing at the Allmusic website I saw the discrepancies and changed accordingly, but neglected to consult the official website. Also, you've done a nice job with Echo and the Bunnymen album articles; are you planning on taking them to FAC anytime soon? If you need anything just drop me a message on my talk page and I'd be glad to help. NSR77 T 22:02, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Open Question to JD554

Hmmm..a comment was left for Garik 11 regarding that user's Nov 20 edit for John Lydon-here it is btw-- "(cur) (last) 22:03, 20 November 2008 Garik 11 (Talk | contribs) (31,426 bytes) (Being from England makes him English) (undo)" that matched YOUR POV edit exactly (why even on the same day!!!) for Morrissey--here that is btw--"(cur) (last) 20:40, 20 November 2008 JD554 (Talk | contribs) (59,418 bytes) (Being from England makes him English)" and you offer a warning about false accusations? Ok. Was this just some incredible coincidence then. Please do tell!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.41.228.7 (talk • contribs) 00:17, 26 November 2008

I've replied on your talk page, but as you're an anonymous IP I'm copying it here: Yes, it was a coinicidence. If you have any concerns about me sockpuppetting you are more than welcome to ask an admin to look into it. The page you need is WP:SOCK. --JD554 (talk) 06:43, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


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