User talk:HJ Mitchell/Archive 20

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DYK for Henry R. Tilton

-- Cirt (talk) 12:02, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

• HJ, while you're pinning that on the wall, would you look over/copyedit List of Chicago Cubs first-round draft picks for me? I couldn't sleep last night, and this oddball was the result... Courcelles (talk) 13:06, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Dan Tencer

I've worked a bit since yesterday on this article - sources are definitely low on the subject, but do you think this is sufficient enough? Connormah^talk 16:15, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, if those are the best sources available, I'd say there probably isn't enough to sustain an article and it probably wouldn't survive an AfD. :( HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:20, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Not sure then what to do. Could you possibly userfy it so I can work on it, and then move it back to the mainspace when ready? Connormah^talk 16:27, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Done. Anything else you need? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:12, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Help

• Hi, HJ.I have just a little problem and felt that you might help me.I want to know if is there any way to short articles by there templates.I mean sorting articles which need to be Wikified.Thank you. (By the way:OLEnglish has restored my rights.Oh!You might also like to sign my guestbook.:)) Max Viwe | Wanna chat with me? 16:52, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, by applying {{wikify}} to an article, it's added to Category:Articles that need to be wikified. Almost all tags add article to a category. Btw, you should replace that pipe character (|) in your sig with | it displays the same, but the pipe can bugger up templates and things. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:21, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you friend.I have changed | character.Max Viwe | Wanna chat with me? 17:28, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks!

Was that 4chan? ~NerdyScienceDude (✉ • ✐ • ✍) 23:51, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't know. Not really their style, but certainly obnoxious enough. They copied and pasted that crap over a few talk pages. Could just be your run of the mill troll- there's no shortage of 'em. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:55, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

DYK for James H. Turpin

— Rlevse • Talk • 00:02, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Lewis Warrington (Medal of Honor)

— Rlevse • Talk • 06:02, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Congrats, added both for you :D Fridae'§Doom | Spare your time? 08:24, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Andrew J. Weaher

— Rlevse • Talk • 12:03, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Added for you, congrats. Fridae'§Doom | Spare your time? 12:16, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Overdoing it with revision removal

Again, please do not use revision removal to remove routine vandalism from edit histories. Doing so makes it impossible for non-admins to compare vandalism styles in order to build cases for sock-puppeting and repeat vandalism. We rely on the the millions of non-admins out there to do that work, and there is no way for the handful of admins that routinely process socks to do it ourselves.—Kww(talk) 15:23, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, considering the revisions I just deleted have sparked this, I think it was quite justified. I assume those are the revisions you're referring to. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:28, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, somehow my brain didn't process that it was a death hoax. I remove those as well.—Kww(talk) 15:39, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Yay we're in the news again! N419BH 17:31, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

My signature

You're right it is too big. And you are not the first to comment on this. However I am a bit thick with all this techie stuff and don't know to reduce the size. If you leave the code on my talk page i will try. That said, I'm not even sure where I should put this code. Sorry, am a bit stupid, old and useless.  SmokeyTheCat  •TALK• 17:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

(TPS) Ask User:Jack Merridew. He'll help you. Trust me. (he fixed mine) N419BH 17:13, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

(or, y'know, give me an edit conflict on my own damn talk page ;)!) Well, you enter the code into your preferences, but my technical knowledge is probably worse than yours! Perhaps one if my stalkers can help? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:14, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Revert to the default signature. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:16, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

 SmokeyTheCat  •TALK• Try that for starters. N419BH 17:20, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

It is now this >>> SmokeyTheCat 20:49, 18 July 2010 (UTC) I trust that this will now be acceptable to all. SmokeyTheCat 20:49, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Looks fine to me! :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:52, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

RFPP

If you could help out at RFPP, that'd be great. If you have any questions about my particular requests, don't hesitate to ask me :). Connormah^talk 18:08, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

What? Am I the only damn admin who ever looks there? I'll have a look now. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:13, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind, it seems to be okay now. Thanks. Like I said, I'll keep an eye on the page, though I think it'll get hit again. I've already initiated another WP:ANI thread regarding this. Connormah^talk 18:20, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

(EC) Eh, sometimes. I'll help in a couple months (That'll be my main intended work area in my RfA along with AIV and UAA). Btw Smokey's signature is mostly fixed. Check his talk page. N419BH 18:23, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

No worries. Ping me again if it backs up. Likewise if your IP-hopping friend returns to those articles and I'll semi them. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:28, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, could you maybe take another look at Liberal Party of Canada leadership convention, 2009? The 172.0.0.0 IP is most likely from wuen this particular person used AOL, now he/she's switched to Bell Canada. For instance, I see one instance of vandalism being made on 8 May, and not being reverted until the 17th, which is a problem. Perhaps maybe a brief protection could be implemented? (it doesn't look like vandalism here is reverted that swiftly, it can take 1 hour to 10 minutes to 6 days...) If not, I'll watch, but I'm not too hopeful that it'll go away. Connormah^talk 18:33, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, don't worry about it, the range has been blocked. Connormah^talk 18:54, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah.... Apparently I'm not that liked around here :). Connormah^talk 19:01, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Lol! You are popular! ;) Hopefully the rangeblcok will clam things down for a bit. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:04, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Now I may need to get into the habit of watching everything I create - that's also the reason my user and user talk is protected. Hopefully the vandal won't be back on a different range - it can get a bit frustrating. Connormah^talk 19:06, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

You can set your preferences to add every page you create to your watchlist. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:08, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

"clam things down a bit", huh? Think you may have meant "CALM things down a bit" :). Related to RfPP (UAA to be exact), anything more that can be done about that IP you blocked per my request? There's been literally dozens of them making similar edits. I would suggest rangeblock but we'd probably wipe out half of Texas. N419BH 19:12, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I plead incompetence when it comes to rangeblocks! Ask someone else! Try Elockid if he's online. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:21, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Request

Could you look at my user and talk pages? Particularly the title. I kinda stole borrowed (without permission) (but with every intention of returning it to you) your DISPLAYTITLE template. Since I'm dealiing with more than just font and colors, would you say it's still legit? Thanks! N419BH 18:36, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

You should be all right. I doubt anyone would complain. :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:53, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

IP block exempt needed in Texas

• User talk:Minor4th#Request exemption from Opera mini block

Hi, I see you're around. I think this needs sorting. Minor4th is fine, and is helping in the Climate Change case at rfar. Cheers, Jack Merridew 20:49, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Terima kasih Should get 'Reviewer', too. Cheers, Jack Merridew 21:06, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

No problem, and will do once I've conferred with a CU (just covering my arse!). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Louis Oosthuizen

HJ, I've thrown a paragraph of prose into Louis Oosthuizen. See what you think. Courcelles (talk) 02:37, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

The article as a whole isn;t brilliant, but your update's good and I'm going to bed in a minute so it's now or never! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:41, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Hey

Hi HJ, George Washington is coming up well but help is still needed, a whole section of the GA Review has been completed but the article lacks many citations, I'm not really good with that. I understand if you're busy but I really want to see that article as GA, FA is not far away but nor is it to be today. Fridae'§Doom | Spare your time? 08:34, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

This is the only warning you will receive for your Wikipediholism.
If you edit Wikipedia again, you will be nominated for administratorship.

Oh wait, you're already an admin... maybe crat ;) Fridae'§Doom | Spare your time? 12:09, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

You couldn't pay me to be a 'crat! I'll try to help with GW, but I won't be much use with finding sources- I'm an Englishman with minimal knowledge of American history! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:50, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

LOL, oh really :P I'm an Aussie, I wouldn't know much more about that Yankee than you :P Fridae'§Doom | Spare your time? 00:32, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I might be able to help find sources. Not so good at formatting them but I can always learn. N419BH 04:21, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

That'd be appreciated N419BH :D Fridae'§Doom | Spare your time? 10:09, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Not so good at formatting them... Cheat! This will do it for you. I've not used it in anger (I tend to grab the template from Template:Citeweb and then fill in the blanks) but I have played around with it and it looks quite cool. TFOWR 10:17, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Bugger that, use WP:REFTOOLS. It can even pull data from some sources, particularly newspapers. I love it! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:55, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Lol, I'll keep that in mind :D Fridae'§Doom | Spare your time? 00:17, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

You have to say that it's rather amusing that we have an Aussie and an Englishman working on one of the most important subjects in yank history! ;) I might move this over to the alternate talk page so we can continue our discussions about GW. I might know a few other people who'd be willing to help. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:19, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Indeed lol Fridae'§Doom | Spare your time? 04:37, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

edit warring

Fair enough. Admonition taken and accepted. Is there a way for me to earn my rollback rights back? This was an unusually frustrating situation for me, and I normally don't abuse the privilege. Blueboar (talk) 17:28, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Give it a few weeks, don't get into any more edit wars, then come and ask me nicely and I promise I'll re-evaluate with an open mind. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:46, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

thanks. Will do. Blueboar (talk) 20:24, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Please swing by the List of Masonic Buildings article and look at Doncram's most recent edit. I see it as a continuation of the same edit war you admonished us about. I will not retaliate... but, obviously he has not paid any attention to your admonition (nor the consensus at WP:RSN where the specifics have been discussed). Blueboar (talk) 12:27, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

OK... so what am I supposed to do now ... Doncram refuses to listen to what multiple people are telling him (on the article talk page and at WP:RSN) and keeps returning the same improper citation to the article that was the subject of our edit war. Given your admonishment, I am now afraid I will be blocked if I try to correct the situation. Blueboar (talk) 16:10, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

FYI

(or should I not start a new section?) I ec'ed with you in closing that RfA :P Were you using Template:Finaltally? sonia^♫♪ 00:44, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh, sorry to steal your glory! No, I just did it the old-fashioned way. I don't think it really matters, at least not for SNOW closes, as you don't make too much of a mess. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:55, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Okay, just curious. (What are you doing up at this hour??) sonia^♫♪ 01:09, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

It's not that late. And I'm procrastinating. I'm considering a massive article expansion but debating whether I can be bothers and in the meantime doing other things, like closing RfAs! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:11, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. Can I help? I really really need to get some kind of content work in between stalking talk pages. sonia^♫♪ 01:22, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

If you want. The article is The Silence (2010 drama). It's in an appalling state, so I thought I might bring it up to something respectable and maybe get it fivefold expanded for DYK. I doubt you've seen it, though; you can view it here if you want. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:36, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Wait... what? TPSing isn't content work? :) dffgd [messages·edits] 12:37, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

ITN/C

Will do. Spencer^T♦C 17:58, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Could you suggest a wording while I give the article a lookover? Spencer^T♦C 17:59, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, something along the lines of {{*mp|July 17}} Divers in the [[Baltic Sea]] off the coast of the [[Åland Islands]] uncover a store of [[Champagne (wine)|champagne]], believed to be the '''[[Veuve_Clicquot#Oldest_bottle|world's oldest]]'''. Any good? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:03, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I'm a little leery of notability, and I would prefer to wait at ITN/C until firm consensus has been established to post. Personally, I'm neutral after weighing the arguments, and I'm not sure there's clear consensus yet. There's no hurry to post. Spencer^T♦C 18:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. We are 20-something hours without a new item, but we've got the golf going up soon, so we shouldn;t have the timer turning red. Thanks anyway, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:12, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

oh that's funny. I was just in Santa Barbara and saw something about that. The divers appear to have had some to drink. Mr. R00t ^Talk 16:28, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't you if you uncovered 30 bottled of perfectly preserved, 250-year-old bubbly? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:54, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Help Request

Hello, since you denied my rollback request I was wondering if you could teach me how to use twinkle? Thanks, Wm.C (talk) 20:18, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Which browser are you using? Twinkle works in just about every browser except IE. Have you installed it yet? If not, you can do it either in your preferences or by adding some code to your skin.js Once that's done, you'll need to purge the cache of your browser and you should have some more buttons. Simple really! :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:28, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, it works. Cheers! :) Wm.C (talk) 06:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Protected user page

Thanks for that. Using Huggle to find and revert abusive content attracts user page vandalism. I don't mind much: it always gets reverted quickly. But protecting the page gives a good message to the kids and saves time. Thanks, Aymatth2 (talk) 02:23, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I know the feeling! I use an alternative account to do a lot of that and I had to fully protect the userpage. If they're attacking you, though, you're obviously doing something right! Like I said, if you ever want it unprotected, just ask. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Hiya

Hiya HJ, how's things... yes I am bored in case you're wondering :P George Washington is coming along nicely, I was wondering if you could look at the DYK hook I submitted Template talk:Did you know#DirectHit and tell me if it's ready to be a DYK hook or not. One of my neighbour's Wi-Fi networks just went kaput so I'm using another one, my dad's switching the phone line so I can't use my own wireless router. Anyway, keep up the good work my English friend, tea and crumpets old chap? ;) Or we can put some prawns on the barbie, beauty mate! Fridae'§Doom | Spare your time? 07:19, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Message

Hello, HJ Mitchell. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection#.7B.7Bla.7CTaft_Law_School.7D.7D.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Basket of Puppies 08:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

help

yesterday you had given me the rollback right but still I'm unable to use huggle and when i checked by user right it shows that i am not a rollbacker!!! RahulChoudhary 08:36, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

• Looks like HJ forgot to actually set the bit. I've flipped the switch for you. Be careful with Huggle- un-careful Huggling can make a right mess. Courcelles (talk) 08:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

References

All articles created after March 18, 2010 must include references. Is there a link for that discussion? Could you give it to me? Thanks, /HeyMid (contributions) 08:45, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Wikipedia:Proposed deletion of biographies of living people: Unsourced biographies of living people (BLP) created after 18 March 2010 can be proposed for deletion using a special proposed deletion process. Unlike standard proposed deletion, the BLP deletion template may be removed only after the biography contains a reliable source that supports at least one statement made about the person in the article. If the biography remains unsourced after ten days, the biography may be deleted. TFOWR 09:15, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

VP/T

I'm just got home from northern California and am slightly tired but here's some help. I started a feed at VP/T to try to get the flag to go in the right place. Something like mw:Help:Magic words might work. Mr. R00t ^Talk 18:10, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Irrypride

Any of you guys see what he was adding? He was adding the same link over and over to about 40 pages. It was some link to buy something inappropriate with the message being You are the Lucky 1 millionth viewer to this page! Click here for the prize! Crude, but funny. Mr. R00t ^Talk 01:32, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

The same user that attacked 404 error in the past days. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 01:34, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

How long did we block for? I didn't look Mr. R00t ^Talk 01:36, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

• Ah good, indef. Mr. R00t ^Talk 01:37, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

(EC) Wankers. That's 3 in a week (at least that I'm aware of) an he gave me an edit conflict on Lindsay Lohan. like I say, wankers! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:37, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I probably caused an (edit conflict × 2) by rollbacking (is that a word?) him. I was using IGLOO and the list of red edits went down really far. Then it crashed. Cheers, Mr. R00t ^Talk 01:45, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

That's what the rollback all script is for! And no, rollbacking is not a word to the best of my knowledge! I'd stick with rolling back. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:50, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

• Was that a spambot? How did it all of those edits within minutes? It also clogged up my watchlist. ~NerdyScienceDude (✉ • ✐ • ✍) 01:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Yep. Only logical explanation. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:51, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

List of Apple Inc. slogans‎

Need some help. The page "List of Apple Inc. slogans‎" was up for AfD and was (some how) kept. A couple !voters said the unsourced entries could probably go until they were sourced, but there seems to be a small edit war brewing, now with a user who was all over the AfD reverting and not discussing anything after I posted on his talk. I am unsure as how to proceed. What do you think? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Well he's only made one revert. As for "Comment them out if you want or add a fact-tag - simply removing them requires too much work for anyone trying to find sources": it sounds like someone needs to read WP:V. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:50, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I am not against commenting them out. I think it is unnecessary and confusing, but if it is the compromise that works, I will go with it. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:18, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I waited almost three hours and no post from the reverter on the "List of Apple Inc. slogans‎" page, so I reverted back. I am at my three reverts for the 24 hour period, I figure I will be reverted again by that user or someone else. What should I do? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:21, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Stop reverting. There isn't really anything else you can do atm. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:26, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, should I unrevert myself or just leave it alone? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:48, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, it has been readded by an admin, so I guess I am SOL (as they say on this side of the pond). I will leave it up to others, but I don't any further references will be added to the page. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:24, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

A belated response to my bit restoration

You had some comments in my "3 years later re-adminship" that I wanted to respond to (mostly because one struck me in particular).... but due to article work I've been rather busy, and it takes me hours to write out comments like this. I also did not want comment further on that page, as it seemed to get into some rather unrelated (drama?) about (term limits?) that I couldn't act upon. I'm not trying to ease your mind (in fact, it might do the opposite), I just believe in transparency and believe good comments shouldn't go unresponded.

"I don't disagree, but Julian makes a reasonable point- admins now have access to revdel, pending changes protection and the abuse filter, most, if not all of which, were unheard of when RN took their wikibreak."

This was a good comment (as was Julian's initial one), and correct. I'll be honest and say even now I'm not sure how some of the new tools work; I always seek consultation before using new tools that I don't fully understand.

• Revdel is actually a pretty routine change, it - for the most part - just makes it easier to delete copyright violations; if I had to take a guess, this was implemented partially because years ago you weren't allowed to delete articles with large histories to perform partial undeletes because it would cause database issues.
• Pending pages protection is actually something I encountered right away and become pretty familiar with. I still don't entirely one aspect though - the policy states the trail is limited to 2000 pages, but Special:StablePages seems to indicate otherwise; would definately ask someone before using this.
• I'll admit to be completely unfamiliar with the edit filter (assuming that's the abuse filter you are referring to). Regardless, still something I am reading about at this point; looks useful though, like some kind of recent changes to view specific types of vandalism.

"I had a look through your logs and I don't see anything concerning[1]. That said, are you up on the WP:CSD as it is now? I notice several of the categories you used "back then" have since been moved/replaced and one or 2 new criteria have been brought in."

It didn't take me long to get up to speed on CSD, it's mostly the same; one nice tweak (and something I personally fought for years ago) is the easier deletion of obvious advertisements of particular kinds. That said I am rather conservative (relatively) when actually performing it, making absolutely sure it fits the policy I give the deleting it and that's it placed incorrectly. That said, years ago there was usually a backlog of 500+ CSDs, now it's like a max of 30.... probably due the new, absolutely massive amount of admins.

"Quite frankly, after the Tbdsy fiasco, I think admins who have been away for a long time and want their bits back should at least be subjected to some scrutiny to make sure they're still up to the job (no offence to RN, who I believe is) since it's so damn hard to get rid of admins like Tbdsy who insist on disrupting the project."

I mentioned above about a comment that "struck" me - because I followed most of the "fiasco" (not logged in). TBDSY (Tabushidayu) was one of several people who helped me get familiar with admin tools initially and reviewed some of my articles, and was very courteous; over time though (s)he became very terse and eventually rather mean to even me, even though I stayed courteous myself. I also saw happen to Esjay (deliberate mispelling; although that was a more odd case for a certain fallout that happened once his supposed true identity was revealed). To be honest I noticed it happen to myself at bit at times when I became a bit too involved into too many aspects of wikipedia policy; I learned to gradually step back from it.

[1] - if you noticed my block log, you'll notice the only particular block that didn't get overturned; it was in fact one big mistake I made at the time, and a bit of a story. In the interest of full disclosure I'll explain my recollection of what happened. Someone (maybe Jimbo himself) created Category:Living People (now Category:Living people), with a very short statement about it essentially being a proposal; people began promptly filling it up, and it quickly became unlike most categories due its size. It was promptly put up for a deletion debate; the consensus was delete early on and stayed that way, people from both sides had some good arguements, however the people wanting deletion would eventually grossly outnumber the people who wanted to keep it, and had very good technical arguements for doing so. User:Jimbo Wales, who at the time constantly stated he wanted to treated like any other user, kept blanking the page during the debate, even to the point where I warned him multiple times about the 3RR rule - he was saying that he didn't like the way the discussion... was being discussed for lack of a better explanation. The debate eventually ended at ~88% for deletion, but no one wanted to close it and most admins were involved in the debate, and it was stirring up a massive amount of incivil drama on the notice board at the time. I believe I was uninvolved with the debate myself (as per policy), one of the very few, and decided to close it as delete (which I also did improperly without linking it in the deletion summary [1], something I also never did before to my recollection, so I guess that makes multiple mistakes). As someone with modern knowledge would figure out, it was promptly undeleted and I was blocked (although I still disagree with the edit summary as Jimbo did not overtly forbid deletion of the category). During the block I had the opportunity to e-mail Jimbo with an apology if that was the case; IIRC he said he didn't care about the action, was quite courteous and explained the full rationale (the massive legal issues) behind the category which wasn't available to see to normal admins at the time. Ironically, after I deleted it all the drama stopped, Jimbo put the full reasoning on the category and explained more elsewhere. Normal wikipedialife resumed, and nobody really talked about it again. Unfortunately it left a pretty visible blemish in my otherwise mostly (in my opinion) good record that is hard to forget. I learned a lot... mostly to stay as far away as possible from foundation and Jimbo matters as the full rationale may not be revealed for various (PR) reasons.

Mostly a tempest in a teapot, and I have nothing to hide, so the amount of openness here might be a bit shocking. Again, responding due to the above and, although I don't remember you from back then, you seem insightful and respectful. Oh, and I also agree it is ridiculously hard to de-sysopp disruptive admins on en-wiki, and if the above upsets you feel free leave me a comment on _my talk page_. If you ever believe I believe I cross that line (or did years ago), I will voluntarily ask to resign. I really like the cat image by the way. RN 07:21, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I like the cat- it reminds me not to take this place too seriously! You wouldn't remember me because I've only been around for about 16 months. I was dismayed by the Tbdsy fiasco- I held him in high esteem when he returned as Tbdsy lives, but then he seemed to go off the rails and it ended with him relentlessly harassing another editor, for which, I'm sad to say, I blocked him which prompted his retirement from Wikipedia. Anyway, I didn't mean any disrespect to you in my comments on BN. I believe there should be some scrutiny beyond a quick check by 2 'crats and then the bit is flipped back in an hour or so, but I don't think a whole new RfA would do much but cause unnecessary drama, so a quick discussion on BN seems to be the best option I can see at the minute. You needn't worry, though, I've no intention of asking you to resign, especially not over what, by enwiki standards, is really ancient history. I hope you'll make good use of the buttons, and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions about current practice or just "how do I do that?" Oh, and WP:RPP, WP:AIV and the Main Page (especially WP:ITN/C) could always benefit from more admins looking in. :) Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:00, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I didn't think your comments were disrespectful; it's common sense to have a little hesistation after someone comes back after roughly a third of a project's history with little activity. Also, thanks for the page pointers! Adminship has a several perks this time around including automatic approval for WP:AWB for editing, rather then pure maintanence, strangely enough; personally I find it kind of odd compared to years ago, but I digress :). Thanks for the response and the pointers! RN 18:19, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

ITN

—Ed (talk • majestic titan) 07:27, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Copyedit request

Hi, I was wondering if you could use your copyedit powers on the article. Thanks :) d'oh! _talk 08:51, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Giolias

Sir,

We have moved the Giolias article to the assassination. I am sure you're a busy admin, but would you mind taking a look at it and tell me what you think it would need to be ITN standard? Thank you for your time and consideration sir. Cwill151 (talk) 20:10, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

BTW... new section Fail! My bad. Cwill151 (talk) 20:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

No worries. I'll have a look in a moment. I'm just cleaning out some spam at the minute! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:12, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

• Sir, it was my pleasure, and thank you for all your efforts as well. I owe a lot to WP after all these years. I look forward to working under you again in the future. All the best, Cwill151 (talk) 21:28, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm confused

You declined Alan Shapiro Marketing and Advertising's CSD, saying it could be a valid stub if spam is removed. Well couldn't all articles? That's what G11 says: would require a signifcant rewrite. (I am watching this page, so please reply here.) — Timneu22 · talk 20:19, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

G11 is for articles whose sole purpose is to promote something- if you could remove the shit and you're left with more than "it exists", it's probably not a G11, but on a borderline case like that, you could ask 10 different admins and get 10 different answers. You could try A7- when I decline a G11, I intend the decline only for the G11, but I avoid A7 (and most of the "A" criteria) like the plague. Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:24, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

And NawlinWiki zapped it under A7! :) You could always try using db-multiple or stick multiple tags on it- if you;d put A7 and G11 on there, ! would have left the A7. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:25, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I guess I was mistaken, I thought I nominated that under G11/A7, but it was only G11. Someone else did A7. — Timneu22 · talk 20:26, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

ITN

I've left a comment at WP:ITN/C. Connormah^talk 21:23, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I replied there, but suggestions are welcome here, there or at WP:ERRORS. :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:29, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'm not entirely sure about this one, right after the semicolon everything sounds a bit strange. I'll keep thinking. Connormah^talk 21:34, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

It sounds odd to me, too, but ITN blurbs (like DYK hooks) are kept to one sentence. I wouldn't be surprised if someone else posts a decent suggestion at WP:ERRORS after reading it and having the same thought as you! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:37, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, 2 sentences would probably sound more odd :). I'll keep thinking. Connormah^talk 21:38, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

That should do. Thanks! Connormah^talk 21:43, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm still not chuffed with it, but perhaps someone else will re-word it or suggest an improvement later on. The meaning is clear, anyway. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:45, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Looks like you were right :). Cheers. Connormah^talk 22:04, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Spamming and sockpuppetry

Thanks for banning Philiporchard‎ (talk · contribs). It looks like he is back already as an IP editor - see this and this. Anything you can do? --Simple Bob (talk) 23:16, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

That was quick. Thanks. --Simple Bob (talk) 23:19, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Any time. I've blacklisted the URLs as well. I expect there'll be one for every British city, but I really can't be bothered to check at this time of night. By all means bring them here as they pop up and report the spammers to AIV as well (between AIV, me and my talk page stalkers, they should be blocked pretty quickly). Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:25, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

A couple quick questions

1. It's not quite clear from WP:REVDEL, or I missed it completely - but is it ok policy-wise to use to hide IPs of registered users who forget to log in and then sign with thier real username (including myself?).
2. I mentioned earlier about pending changes protection, but does the 2000 limit still apply strictly or is it pretty freeform at this point?

Just a comment, but thanks for the speedy on this - several years ago CSDs were supposed to be interpreted very conservatively (within common sense)... this seems to have changed quite a bit. More of a wait a pay attention thing for now I guess. RN 00:43, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, I zapped it under WP:G4 (recreation of deleted material). I don't know if that existed back then. If I hadn't I would have zapped it under G11 which, I gather is relatively new. Yes, you can use revdel for that if you don't want your IP publicly visible. I have no idea how the 2000 limit works, but as a rule of thumb, if pending changes is preferable to semi-protection, just do it. If there are too many, someone more important will do something about it or, more likely, not! :) Hope that helps, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:57, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

The IP issue is certainly within bounds for RevDel- it is even within bounds to have oversighted if you want it fully deleted. Courcelles (talk) 01:02, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a ton for the answers. G4 existed but it was very strict - if it was rewritten just a bit and a source or two was added it usually had to sit out the full duration (there were very rare cases where people would WP:SNOW it). G11 didn't exist back then, at least nothing close to the form it is in now... and I'm glad that it exists now. It's almost a dream come true TBH - so many AFDs of obvious adverts I had to close at the time. RN 01:53, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Any time! I like G11, mainly because I despise spam! If it's completely re-written, then G4 doesn't usually apply, but if it's the same article for all intents and purposes, it can go. Let me know if you have any more questions. :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:01, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

RE: ITN

Hi. I'm not sure what skin you use, but at least in the Classic skin, the difference in the boldface marks' position is noticeable, particularly in longer links. For an example using the most recent revision, see [2]. I consider this change to be unobtrusive based on the assumption that most people likely don't the Classic skin. --Merovingian (T, C, L) 01:23, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

That's interesting. I've never used the Classic skin- I use Monobook. Thanks for the explanation, anyway, I hadn't realised it made a difference, much less that skin choice would affect it. Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:28, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea why it happens, but it does. I mostly change it because there's only one link in that style at a time. Thanks for understanding. Happy editing. --Merovingian (T, C, L) 01:43, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Email

You've got mail. --Connormah^talk 06:03, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Replied. Connormah^talk 22:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Sent another email. Connormah^talk 23:59, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

More email. Connormah^talk 02:24, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Check your inbox again. :) Connormah^talk 03:35, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Spam blacklist log

Hello, thanks for the help in reviewing some of the submittals and helping to get the spam blacklist caught up - the page is perpetually backlogged. Granted, several of the entries probably shouldn't be blacklisted or need more discussion first ... but enough that need action that it can cause extra work for others by not getting action taken sooner.

I just wanted to point out - when adding items, please be certain to log the additions at MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist/log. The log is also linked from the top of the page at MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist. The log makes it easier to locate the original requests months or even years later if/when someone comes along who questions why a particular page is on the blacklisted and wants it removed. Without the log, evidence of prior abuse can be harder to track down. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 02:51, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip. Do I need to log sites that I added without a request (I've recently added a few that have been added by persistent spammers)? Also, am I getting the markup right- particularly for the .co.uk sites? Thanks again, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:54, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

The markup looks fine, no issues there.

More info on logging can be found at MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist/log#Logging entries on the blacklist. Ideally, the log would have a perma-link to the history of a page where the blacklisting was requested or discussed (be it at WP:SBL, WT:WPSPAM, WP:ANI, a sockpuppet report, a user talk page, etc); although, at least providing a few words directly in the log giving a reason helps.

The main risk is that somewhere down the road a spammer could request removal from the blacklist, and if a justifiable reason for the initial blacklisting can't be found, it would likely be removed and the blacklisting could then resume ... which would result in another blacklist. The log also helps to provide evidence that a blacklisting wasn't done outside of the documented processes for the blacklisting interface found at Wikipedia:Spam-blacklisting. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 03:20, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:10, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Category Question

I, working with another user, moved a category from one spelling to another (from "Elfs" to "Elves") and the "Elfs" category is depopulating and the "Elves" category is filling up with the same people....slowly. Once I get the "Elfs" category empty, how do I nominate it for deletion as empty? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:05, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Well that sort of thing really ought to be discussed at WP:CfD beforehand. Empty categories qualify for speedy, though. In both cases, Twinkle can do it for you. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:10, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Well, yes, either you can use WP:TW in your gadgets or you can use {{User:Shruti14/Userboxes/ie}} on your user page. Point made. dffgd talk·edits 03:15, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, didn't know that. This was just a simple correction of a category. It previously said Category:Wikipedian WikiElfs (which isn't the correct spelling), so after talking to the person who put the category in the in the first place, we agreed that changing it to Category:Wikipedian WikiElves (the correct spelling) was the way to go. I didn't know I needed CfD to do that though, I would do that in the future. Thanks! :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, there's WP:CFDS, which I believe is for uncontroversial requests. If nobody objects, User:Cydebot will do all the work. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:21, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Dffgd, there's a simple solution to that. Upgrade. And get out of that horrible, horrible browser that is IE. Ugh. Horrible browser. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:19, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Even better upgrade! - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:23, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

I use Firefox for a long time. Then I discovered Chrome. It's quicker, cleaner and a whole load of the Firefox add-ons (which, granted, are really cool!) are built in, as are most of the features of the Google Toolbar, only without the toolbar. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:25, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

I tried Chrome and found it to be slower than FF to be honest. I didn't like some things were missing, so I went back to FF. Got my desktop all purty like with Personas (skins for the desktop) and a teeny tiny theme for more screen space. Makes me very happy. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:28, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

I find Chrome faster as not as resource-heavy as Firefox, but that might be because I don't keep 50 tabs open in Chrome. ;) Reach Out to the Truth 04:59, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Easiest path. (just kidding) But seriously, I'll probably stay with this for a while, because, put simply, I don't care very much. I've already learned life without Twinkle! And about it being "horrible"... you said the same thing about this, which I use. :) dffgd talk·edits 13:51, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

• Hey HJ, the category problem resolved itself the old category has been deleted, so you can mark that part of this resolved. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:59, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

AFD review

I closed some AFDs tonight; if you could just take a quick review when you get a chance just to make sure my barometer is on track, it would be much appreciated :). I'll stop bugging you soon. Here's the few that I'd like a review on: AFD1, AFD2, AFD3. RN 04:21, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Also, by review, I also mean "if I screwed up, feel free to correct it or make me do so". RN 04:30, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

The first and third were fine. The second, I would have closed as merge or delete, since most of the policy/guideline-based arguments seemed to be going that way. It's one of those articles, though- no matter what the close or by whom, it's likely to be controversial. Don't be surprised if that ends up at DRV. It'll probably be the most fun DRV has had since Administrator abuse on Wikipedia. That was amusing and, again, one those articles that was heading for DRV no matter what the close! I don't mind being bugged- it's more interesting than being vandalised or "why did you delete the spam I posted"! :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 04:31, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

I honestly would have deleted Dick Cheney's Health, as the keep votes were particularly weak. No consensus, however, was within discretion, so if you get drug kicking and screaming to DRV (because how else do you get there?) I'd vote to endorse. Courcelles (talk) 04:32, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm.... maybe worth rolling AFD2 back then? It was more along the lines of no one could really agree on anything, although I did prefer delete myself. RN 04:39, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

• Rolling yourself back and !voting is always an option, but I'm not sure what would be a good idea here. One thing, though, when you know a close is going to be controversial, a few sentences of rationale can go a long ways towards framing the eventual DRV. Courcelles (talk) 04:47, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

You're right.... I've rolled it back - I don't want to end up on DRV quite yet (I closed quite a few years ago without ending up there), and that article has a chance of that. Still learning, and I think I closed it a tad early as well, even though the debate wasn't really going anywhere... RN 04:59, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and just wanted to say a big thank you to you both for this. RN 05:12, 21 July 2010 (UTC)