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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - February 2009

Note: the Newsletter is "collapsed" for convenience. To see the full letter, click on the "show" button at the right end of the gray bar.

If you are no longer interested in WikiProject Eurovision then please remove your name from this list. This Newsletter was delivered by Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 15:46, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Rouvas references

Hey, I was just about to fix the formatting of the references on the Rouvas page, but I can't find the page on espresso news about him. I think its ref number 48, if you can find the right link, I can format it correctly. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 21:43, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I just fixed it. There are a few more that I will fix tomorrow. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 02:42, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

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Did you know

Since you make so many new pages, maybe you should consider nominating them for Wikipedia:Did you know which involves a sentence or "hook" being on the wikipedia main page and is basically a place for wiki to say hey readers look whats new. I have done a few and its good publicity so with ESC coming up, it couldn't hurt for Rouvas. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 23:53, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Sakis Rouvas personal life

Greekstar12 up until yesterday morning the Wikipedia List of newspapers in Greece with regards to Espresso read 'Political affiliation: none (gossip)'. The only reason that it now reads 'Political affiliation: none (evening press) (entertainment/social issues/gossip)' is that some anonymous IP conveniently altered it yesterday evening. Please do not insult my intelligence. Espresso is a government owned newspaper???? Not very likely! I find it hard to believe that Espresso has the same respectability as other daily newspapers e.g. Kathimerini and Ta Nea. I have not seen you quoting any such respectable sources. I was in Greece at the time but I do not remember hearing about Rouvas' suicide attempt. In any case, what you have used as a source is the Espresso 'show time' website section where the corresponding article makes no mention of its sources when it describes his suicide attempt with such detail(!). Most people would question its reliability.

Secondly, I am not a major fan of Rouvas but I am a fan of ethos and WP:BLP policy. I strongly suggest that you read the latter. Your style of writing is nowhere a NPOV and Esspresso and afisorama are low quality sources for such serious allegations. I have no means of viewing the afisorama article BUT I have read the Esspresso one that you initially used as your only source and I will try to demonstrate what I mean by gossip:

The Espresso article verbatim says: 'When he moved permanently to Athens, Sakis Rouvas rented a small apartement in Dafni and lived together with an English friend, with who he had a relationship since he was in Corfu'. You have written in wikipedia: 'When he first moved to Athens, Rouvas rented a small apartment in Dafni, Attica where he lived with an older English woman whom he had been in a relationship with since he was in high school in Corfu.' Your style of writing is sensasioniolist to say the least.

Furthermore, you have writen that Rouvas cheated on Vera Wang with Zygouli for a year and that he got back together with her after he learned that she was pregnant, which are nowhere to be found in the Espresso link you provided, which incidentally does not mention the years for these events either. If I wanted to whitewash Rouvas I would have taken the controversy section out altogether. Regardng the yacht incident, Espresso only mentions that Rouvas and the other guests gave testimony, not that they were charged. If you wanted to include any important controversy, you should have included the Cyprus one. Finally, there is no such thing as 'political union ceremony' in English language; the term is 'civil ceremony'. If Rouvas indeed had one, of which I have not the faintest idea, then he is in fact legally married regardless of whether or not it is recognised by the Greek orthodox church. I will edit accordingly and I suggest that you source properly any reverts. You will also find these comments in the corresponding article discussion. ギリシャ人 (talk) 12:13, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I just saw your comment in my talkpage. I am not trying to be mean either. If you read the WP:BLP policy carefully hopefully you will understand what I am trying to say. I removed all unsourced material and tried to make it more clear that the majority of these things are allegations. And no, including all these allegations in the article is not encyclopaedic. You will never find Espresso and Afisorama quoted in a respectable Encyclopaedia. Printed gossip is still gossip. This attitude of recycling Junk food news is becoming typical of Greek society and it saddens me to see that you and many other of my compatriots don't seem to grasp where is the harm in that. ギリシャ人 (talk) 13:30, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

The fact that you wrote Vera Wang instead of Rebecca makes me think you didn't read it as carefully as you think you did. I did not specifically say he cheated on her, but their relationships did coincide. People can do the math. Also, about the wedding, I don't believe in marriage, so it is not my area of expertice, so if you find a little mistake and you want to fix it, go ahead. I just wrote it does not count with the church, which it doesn't, and Rouvas himself has never called himself married and you can find the youtube source where he says it is not in his plans. Lastly, I was in Greece when the suicide attempt happened too, and although I must say, (not to be rude), but if you hadn't heard then you may have been living under a rock, no offense, lol. Even his own publications have confirmed it.

PS: I'm sure you may see STAR gossip and Greek tabloids that are becoming all so prominent, while on once respectable TV shows, now all you see is trash like Stella Bezantakou, Vera Lambrou and Efi Thodi. I hear what you're saying, but trust me, I would NEVER put in something that I wasn't sure was fact or source 'trash'. GreekStar12 (talk) 21:07, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Vera, Rebecca, whatever lol. You are still missing my point. Saying that 'their relationships coincided' is an euphemism for 'cheating' but the message you are sending (and the potential harm to the person) is effectively the same. If those dates are true, you still haven't sourced them. Your Espresso link does not mention any of this so it is a WP:OR violation. You and I have very different definitions of what is gossip. Gossip can be true events sometimes but even then it is done in a judgemental/sensationalist way, in a way that shocks, angers, hurts or titillates. The same truth can be said in a neutral or a disrespectful way. Imagine that Sakis' little girl reads what you have put in wikipedia in a few years; don't you think that she would be hurt? For the last time, I suggest that you review WP:BLP. You are recycling gossip. The fact that many others have done this before you does not make you a better person. Your actions have consequences.ギリシャ人 (talk) 01:17, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

P.S. Rule of thumb: Is what you are saying True? Is it Kind? Is it Necessary? If the answer to any of this is No then you are stepping into gossip/trivia territory. ギリシャ人 (talk) 15:35, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Reading that your father bit the head off a bat is quite different from getting a detailed step-by-step guide of how your father attempted suicide. That's just satisfying cheap curiosity and the voyeuristic tendencies of the masses. It also has the potential of messing up a child mentally. By putting it out there on the Internet in English, you are putting it within the whole planet's reach by just a 'click', with a potential to stay there eternally. People will not be reading those espresso/afisorama pieces in 10 years time but they are likely to be reading wikipedia. Do you really want to be an accomplice to that? When I say kind I refer to the intentions of the writer/speaker, to him being thoughtfull of the potential consequences of his actions and of the way he phrases what he is trying to say. As I said above the same truth can be said in a neutral or a disrespectful/harmful way. And some 'truths' do not really need to be shoved to people's face eternally. Have a nice day too :) ギリシャ人 (talk) 10:29, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - March 2009

Note: the Newsletter is "collapsed" for convenience. To see the full letter, click on the "show" button at the right end of the gray bar.

If you are no longer interested in WikiProject Eurovision then please remove your name from this list. This Newsletter was delivered by Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 23:41, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

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⚠

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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - April 2009

Note: the Newsletter is "collapsed" for convenience. To see the full letter, click on the "show" button at the right end of the gray bar.

If you are no longer interested in WikiProject Eurovision then please remove your name from this list. This Newsletter was delivered by Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 23:51, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

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Promotion

I put the "update" template on the promotion section in Greece in the Eurovision Song Contest 2009 hoping that you would see it and update, but I'm not sure if you saw it yet and its been over a week. Just thought I'd let you know. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 16:04, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Greek charts

first of all, hello my dear greek friend ;) well i'm not against this chart but i just want an official chart that we can trust at. if radio1 does this, ok i'm in. but really i'm not in the idea that radio1 does. a lot of charts talked in here, and still talking to make a decision. but i really can't remember whether the greek charts have talked or not. so we should talk them too. so do not feel angry or something like that cause every charts' methodolgy should be talkin' and i agree with you that goodcharts or badcharts pages can all be changable. ok i'm in that too. but you know there were serious problems with some countries before. the most popular ones were the bulgarian and the polish ones. so the methodolgy is really important here. a chart which can be called as trustable should be national, official, both airplay and single charted. if we look at the greece, we can see the billboard chart. and in the goodcharts table we see that it is combined with both airplay and cd sales. but you say radio 1 does this too. so which one should we trust? to the one that publishes more songs or to a "Billboard" label? About the greek singers, you know cd singles system do not really work except the western europe. most of the eastern europe countries (such as russia, ukraine, turkey etc.) combined their own official lists with the downloads, airplays and a little bit cd singles. cause in these markets the artists do not publish their songs' singles too much as there is not enough consumers. but the list should be trustable. and in these countries we see a national system that no only one radio's chart. if there's a both billboard and radio1 chart in a country, i really believe - i'm not talkin' about greek radio 1, any other country we can say, no matter - in the big labels. billboard is more trustable i think. and peggy zina, michalis hatzigiannis, sakis rouvas, anna vissi. a lot of greek artists are/were there. you said the billboard system that uses the radio1 but these systems' reliability is unknown. we are talkin' here the reliablity of the radio1 charts and you publish the airplay, top 40, hot 20 charts of radio 1. we first should have decide well whether radio 1 charts should be used or not. if a discussion starts, you can not add your own being discussed subject to the page, again and again. i hope you obey that rule to when? until we decide, until the radio1 chart supporters can give us some links and make us believe that charts' methodolgy. thank you ;) --Triancula (talk) 11:59, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I saw your comment on Triancula's page, and just wanted to remind you that charts that reflect a single vendor aren't permitted for any country. Itunes, Amazon, Wal-Mart, Odyssey are all unacceptable. When I looked over the Radio1 charts, the "Greek Top 50" and "Greek Airplay" charts say that they are charts of how often those songs are played on Radio1, which makes them a single vendor chart. There's a big difference between an airplay chart for a single network, and the airplay charts from Nielsen that compile the statistics from many networks together.

The rest of the charts on Radio1 look to be copies of charts from other sources. Some of them are copies of good charts, so it's better to use the original. Some of them are copies of bad charts (their "world" charts appear to be copies of the United World Charts, and those charts aren't allowed, either).—Kww(talk) 12:30, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Greece in ESC 2009

I want to get Greece in the Eurovision Song Contest 2009 ready for a GA review. So I'm going to need your help to get it up to standards. I'll make a list of references to add on the page's talk. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 15:38, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

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