User talk:Glottran

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16:04, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Convention

Hi. I notice that you have recently changed the flagicon relating to the San Marino Grand Prix. However per the convention (as defined at Wikipedia:WikiProject Formula One/Conventions#Season summary articles) we use flagicon for the country where the race took place not a flagicon reflecting the race title. If you wish to change this convention you may of course start a discussion at WT:F1 if you feel that the previous discussions (which are linked on the conventions page) missed something. Thank you.
SSSB (talk) 20:40, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for October 17

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited 1998 NASCAR Winston Cup Series, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages California 500 and Primestar 500 (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 08:01, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Table formatting

Hello Glottran. Please ensure you format the last row of the tables properly – you need to make it span the entire width of the table. You can do this using the colspan= function (e.g. colspan=12 will make the cell span 12 columns). Cheers, Number 5 7 12:33, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Your contributed article, Results of the 2010 Swedish general election

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.
You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

Hello, I noticed that you recently created a new page, Results of the 2010 Swedish general election. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page – 2010 Swedish general election. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at 2010 Swedish general election. If you have new information to add, you might want to discuss it at the article's talk page.

If you think the article you created should remain separate, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. –eggofreason^{(talk · contribs)} 23:37, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

County-level election result articles

Hello Glottran. I would very strongly advise against creating articles like 2018 Swedish general election in Norrbotten County. Similar articles on UK general election results for counties have been deleted at AfD as they are deemed unnecessary (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/United Kingdom general election, 2015 (Lancashire)). It would be best for you to keep the detail at Results of the 2018 Swedish general election. Cheers, Number 5 7 20:17, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Counties are way more important in a Swedish context than in a UK context. The seats are shared at a county level and they are the second highest administrative order in Sweden similar to a region in the UK, a bundesland in Germany, a province in Canada or a state in the United States. Just because "län" is translated the same as "county" does not mean they are the same between different countries. In all those nations, counties are a third-level administrative region, which is lower on the threshold. In Sweden, counties are exclusively responsible for healthcare and infrastructure, similar to devolved parliaments in Scotland and Wales. Sweden as a result has no national health service, but rather 21 regional county health services. So, it is like comparing apples and oranges, and as a result, I will continue making these since they are second-level administrative regions and have a similar status in Sweden as states, devolved countries et cetera have. @Number 57:Glottran (talk) 21:36, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Basically, considering the statuses of Swedish läns, you'd need to go after US states, Scotland or Wales articles too. Just because I have too much spare time and Sweden does not have English as its first language, does not make election articles about Sweden worth discriminating against. "Best for you" is definitely not the etiquette to engage in Wikipedia conversations in either.@Number 57:Glottran (talk) 21:44, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid you seem to have misunderstood the UK's somewhat unusual and complex constitutional arrangements, as counties are actually the second-highest administrative division after national government in most of the UK (i.e. England, where county councils are second tier authorities). And what counties are responsible for is irrelevant in the context of general election results. If you continue making the articles, I will be nominating them for deletion. You also seem to have misconstrued my "best for you" comments, which were purely me trying to advise you that you are probably wasting your time on these. Number 5 7 21:46, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, I haven't. Swedish counties are way more powerful than UK counties that are governed by council areas that are way smaller and more frequent. What damage does it do to you to have a permanent record of Swedish elections on Wikipedia? You also failed to respond to my US statement: why is there allowed to be an article for Alaska in US presidential elections, when Skåne and Stockholm counties are way more populous and share similar powers, just that "län" has been badly translated to English as "county" when it ought to be "region"? Just leave me alone and let me do this, I know what I'm doing and I'm not planning on making local articles since those are indeed redundant. These are perfectly legitimate and should stay and you'll not find agreement from others the moment I explain that a Swedish county = a US state. Be advised that I will consider mass deletion attempts on articles that fulfil WP: Notability such as these ones by the U.S. state precedent as vandalization attempts. The counties are like the US electoral collage in that they SEND the MP's and ARE the election. Each MP is elected by a county, not a constituency. That's a wild difference compared to any elections in the Anglosphere.

@Number 57:Glottran (talk) 21:52, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

https://data.val.se/val/val2018/slutresultat/R/rvalkrets/04/valda.html "Mandat 2018" (seats 2018). Sourced by article. Just like states in the US send congresspeople and EC votes and the opposite of the UK system of single-member constituencies. There should be enough proof right there. I appreciate if we could calmly settle this right now that I've proven the vast difference between Swedish counties and say Lancashire from an electoral standpoint. In Lancashire, Blackburn, Burnley, Blackpool N, Blackpool S, Wyre & Preston N etc send the MP's, NOT Lancashire itself.

@Number 57:Glottran (talk) 22:02, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

To rebut a few of your points:

How 'powerful' the counties are is irrelevant as we are talking about national election results, not county election results.
The comment about damage is a classic argument to avoid when discussing deletion (see WP:NOHARM).
The populations Stockholm County (2.3m) and Skåne County (1.3m) are both less than that of Greater Manchester (2.8m), which was one of the UK articles deleted in the linked AfD

You are welcome to contest the deletions (that's what a deletion discussion is for). However, you cannot tell other editors to leave your articles alone – WP:OWN is a fundamental principle of Wikipedia. Similarly, claiming that an attempt to delete an article through legitimate process is vandalism is ridiculous; if you continue to remove the AfD tags, you are likely to be blocked for disruption. Number 5 7 22:04, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you remove the AfD tag again, you are going to be blocked. Please stop behaving like this. Number 5 7 22:08, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Another suggestion (which I have made in the AfD discussion) is for you to create articles on the constituencies (e.g. Södermanland County (constituency), in which you can detail the results of all the general elections, year-by-year. This is fairly standard practice – see e.g. Central Finland (constituency) or Madrid (Congress of Deputies constituency). Number 5 7 22:27, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Constituency articles

Hello. As there was no consensus to delete, and several editors at the AfD supported the idea of constituency articles, I have boldy attempted that, converting them into:

These can be filled in with the results from all the previous elections (it would also be very useful to list the MPs elected in each constituency). I've also created {{Riksdag constituencies}}, which has links to all the other potential articles. I hope this is a productive outcome of the discussion. Cheers, Number 5 7 21:28, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Swedish general elections in Halland County

A tag has been placed on Category:Swedish general elections in Halland County requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. UnitedStatesian (talk) 01:47, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ways to improve Results of the 1960 Swedish general election

Hello, Glottran,

Thank you for creating Results of the 1960 Swedish general election.

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

Sources needed

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|WikiAviator}}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~. For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

Delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

WikiAviator (talk) 10:05, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTSTATS

Hello. I don't understand the purpose of your recent article Social Democratic Party in the 2018 Swedish general election as you already have the result by municipality in Results of the 2018 Swedish general election. It does not appear to add anything useful to Wikipedia.

Even your "Results of" articles for individual elections do not appear to be particularly useful. WP:NOTSTATS makes it clear that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information (nor 'Excessive listings of unexplained statistics'). Your results by municipality tables appear to fit into this category.

What would be useful (and not indiscriminate) would be results and seat allocations by constituency like Results breakdown of the November 2019 Spanish general election (Congress). Can I suggest you refocus your efforts into tables like this, or results by constituency (building on articles like Södermanland County (constituency)) rather than these endless tables of vote share by municipality? Cheers, Number 5 7 18:21, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57:

It does not fall foul of WP:NOTSTATS. This is simply an article to detail the history of a party's performance in the election similar to season articles for sports teams, none of which have ever been deleted for notstats. Elections are the "season" for political parties, hence WP:Notability given it's a national election. I frankly don't get what kind of enjoyment you get from doing this and to make matters worse even propose deletion as soon as you disagree with an article. You can't say under any circumstances that this is not a primary participant in the election: it is the largest party. The reason it's not a duplicate is twofold: a) the party's actual municipal vote tally is not mentioned in the main article for spatial reasons, b) the party's election trend and swing from 2014 is not covered in the main article. It is not even close to a dubious case such as the county results were, that is something people can have divided opinions over. This is relevant for each elected party as a part of their histories in any given case. I strongly urge you to remove the template as soon as you see this, I know you would prefer me to not engage in my work at Wikipedia but there is no reason to make it personal when I evidently do not get anywhere near NOTSTATS or off Notability with this. That you didn't even put up a discussion entry about this speaks volumes. There is no case.Glottran (talk) 19:10, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I will not remove the template, and I will take it to AfD if you remove it. And as for your ridiculous assertion that I "would prefer [you] to not engage in [your] work at Wikipedia", I am simply trying to point you in the right direction of what is appropriate for Wikipedia.

This is a quite simple point: Result tallies at the municipal level add nothing to Wikipedia, as they have no relevance to the seat allocation. What matters is how many votes each party gets per constituency. Please take a look at a comparable article Results breakdown of the November 2019 Spanish general election (Congress). This is what you should be focusing your energies on. Please actually listen to some advice that is being offered to you by someone who has worked on election articles for over a decade. Number 5 7 19:24, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57:

I am not interested in those constituency articles and will not be told what to do. With all due respect. Result tallies do add to Wikipedia since they add up to the overall tally which forms the overall election result. Previously you said constituencies were irrelevant as articles because they did not determine the election so it appears a bit of a double standard. Out of interest, what happens if the template remains where it is? Glottran (talk) 19:30, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There is no double standard here; you have just misunderstood what you were previously advised: We have "Results of the" articles on results of specific elections, and constituency articles that detail the results of all the elections that have taken place in that constituency over the years (and a list of MPs).

If the template remains on the article, it will be deleted after seven days.

If you refuse to listen to advice from others, then frankly you are not going to last very long on Wikipedia. When I first joined, I was given several pieces of advice about what was suitable or not for inclusion. Now I am trying to tell you what is generally deemed appropriate and what is not. Editors who continue to churn out unwanted articles can eventually be banned from creating new ones. I am simply trying to stop you wasting your time. Number 5 7 19:35, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57:

I've been on Wikipedia for more than a decade, and I'm public with which usernames. I've lasted a good while, don't worry. You should then immediately nominate it for an AfD because I dispute it and if I leave the template you win anyway. I do not trust the AfD's neutrality but what else can I do? What do I have to lose? I would also strongly recommend not threatening editors like this. The Results of xxxx election in the 1900's are a lot more interesting to do than constituency ones. If I don't want to edit a certain article, I respectfully reserve the right not to do it, that's my decision, and you should respect that instead of trying to compel me editing stuff I don't want to edit. I'm not saying it's never going to happen, but I'm definitely not in a rush. Anyway, bring the AfD on then.

Glottran (talk) 19:47, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have taken the article to AfD. Why would you not trust an AfD's neutrality? Number 5 7 20:01, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57:

I got a bad vibe from it last time. In particular, you held it open way too long after it was evidently a wash and no-one properly bothered, hence benefit of the doubt should've prevailed. Anyway, let's see how it pans out. I will not make any of these articles if I lose it, but plenty if I win it. In the meantime, I'm going back to do the conventional election results articles. I might have time to do constituency stuff after summer, I don't know yet.

Glottran (talk) 20:11, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57:

Um, you know what. Just delete the article. I've decided I'm ok with it.

Glottran (talk) 20:16, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, have done. I have no control over how long AfDs stay open by the way. That is decided by the potential closers. Number 5 7 20:20, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57:

I'll make a compromise change to the 1973-2018 articles instead: will remove the blocs articles and add the blocs to the one municipal list as two further columns, that will reduce the length of the articles nearly by half :) I did too much work on these while deemed acceptable to lose it, about three months, so I'll just adapt them to the better system I used for the older elections I edited later: where the blocs are mentioned in the main results column and thus the municipalities take up as little space as possible. That way I've done something at least.

Glottran (talk) 20:24, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Regional election article

Hello. Can I suggest not having separate articles for the county and local elections? All the information at 2018 Swedish regional elections could easily be included at 2018 Swedish local elections as it was before. There doesn't seem to be any point in separating it – for the UK local election articles we include elections at regional, county and district levels in a single article and then have the individual articles for the various councils being elected. More articles means more need to watch for vandalism, and it's unlikely that many editors will have those articles on their watchlist.

Also, why have the counties suddenly become regions. Swedish Wikipedia continues to call them county council elections into 2018.

Based on our previous interaction, may I also suggest not responding to this message instantly with a knee-jerk reaction, but taking some time to consider it. Thanks, Number 5 7 13:52, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57:

Hi there. Swedish counties have gradually shifted over gradually and from this electoral period onwards they are all classified as regions, the official change happened mid-way through the 2018-2022 election period so it's semantics on whether to use county or region for 2018, but at that stage almost every county had shifted their political branch over to the region title. See more here https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Region_(landsting) or also Regional councils of Sweden. Either way, I think there is an important distinction to be made over regional and municipal elections, especially as we have a clear-cut three-tier system here. Regions: healthcare and public transportation, Municipalities: schools, elderly care and road maintenance. I would respect that you might differ in opinion over that, but it is no big deal. If you want to merge what I did in the regional elections back to the local elections I'd be ok with it but like I said I would prefer to keep them separate and the current templates to stand since I didn't do a specific one for the regional ones, if you decide to do that just erase the regional entries from the main template so everything links back to the local one. Just for your info, I won't add extensive lists to the actual regional/county elections, just the final standings and then a brief final result for each municipality (percentage and actual vote). Those will be way beneath any WP:Stats problems :)

Thanks for the explanation. With regards to the article split, I generally prefer to try to have as few separate articles as possible – I think it's easier both from the perspective of us as editors and for the readers to minimise the number of articles. From our perspective it means fewer articles to patrol. From the readers' perspective, it means going to fewer articles for information. As an example, several countries hold combined presidential and parliamentary elections, and except in cases where the article becomes too large, I try to keep it in a single article (e.g. 2019 Malawian general election) rather than have separate ones for the presidential and legislative elements. Cheers, Number 5 7 14:21, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57:

I do think the likelihood of people vandalising regional and local election articles are a lot smaller than national election ones, isn't it so? Fair to say emotions tend to run way higher over those for a lot more people even though regions and municipalities tend to do a lot of the political groundwork. The nationwide local election articles (there aren't that many) are way down the line for me anyway with regards to priority, I'm prioritizing getting the national results back to WWII and then build up primarily Södermanland's and Stockholm's county elections in the coming weeks and months. Either way, do you figure the matter of the main article resolved or are you still considering a merger? Asking for this since I intend to create the county election articles for 2014 and moving on backwards from tomorrow. Cheers.Glottran (talk) 16:24, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You'd be amazed. I have around 11,000 articles on my watchlist, basically every national election article outside the five main English speaking countries. At least a couple of times a week I have to revert vandalism on some obscure article where an IP randomly changes the figures. I guess the same probably happens on local election articles too. I do think a merger should happen, if only for the readers' benefit. If we can comfortably fit all the information in a single article, why not? Cheers, Number 5 7 17:01, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57:

Wow, not just for like random authoritarian countries either? I can move the stuff over and make it a redirect if so. The main articles of the regional and municipal elections aren't that long anyway.Glottran (talk) 17:22, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, all kinds of places. No idea what drives people to do it... If you could move the stuff over, that would be great. Good luck with the county council/regional council election articles. Cheers, Number 5 7 17:43, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57:

I already did about 15 minutes ago. I think I fit it in well within the article too. Made it == rather than === for both the regional and the municipal parts to enable subsections and it worked like a charm :) Glottran (talk) 17:46, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good stuff. Just one final suggestion – subnational elections to specific councils are often named after the body itself, for example 2017 Suffolk County Council election, 2019 Madrid City Council election or 1982 Strathclyde Regional Council election. You might want to consider this for your new set. Cheers, Number 5 7 18:12, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57:

The literal name in Swedish is hard to translate to that. "Landstingsfullmäktige" would be "land assembly full power" in English, really far away from "county council". I prefer simpler titles for transliteration, since it is another language altogether unlike Suffolk County Council et cetera. That's the real name for that council whereas the real name for these are either "Södermanlands landstingsfullmäktige" or from now on "Södermanlands regionfullmäktige". This seems to be going on elsewhere too when it's another official language, think of 2019 Italian regional elections etc. Whether someone chooses to translate something into "County Council" or "City Council" is secondary, since I think everyone knows what a "county election" means and I also think too many words starting with capitals looks a bit ugly in titles when not need be :) I can add redirects using council too, though. I think that's fair. Glottran (talk) 18:21, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ways to improve Results of the 1924 Swedish general election

Hello, Glottran,

Thank you for creating Results of the 1924 Swedish general election.

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

Please try to improve the lead section of the article if possible.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|Amkgp}}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~. For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

Delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Amkgp (talk) 17:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Amkgp:

Thanks for making me pay attention to writing 1924 instead of general election within the brackets. It looked a bit silly once I saw that. Done so many of these that it goes automatically these days :)

Glottran (talk) 17:17, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In regards to my edits

Thank you for reaching out to me. I apologize for renaming the Swedish local election articles without consulting you first. I have fixed the redirects for the Stockholm and Norrbotten articles. --MisterElection2001 (talk) 14:57, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Results tables

Hello Glottran. You might be interested in a new method of creating election results tables, using {{Election results}}

This is much simpler than usual coding and ensures standardisation of results formats. It automatically adds the party colours (if meta templates exist), calculates percentages and the seat totals. Columns for swing and seat change appear if used, but not if the parameters are unused.

You can see some examples of the possibilities at Template:Election results/testcases, while an explanation of the code is at Template:Election results#How to use this template.

If it might be of use for converting articles you're working on, I have created an Excel file that can be used to convert existing tables; if you copy an existing table into it, it will create (most of) the code for the new format (you'll have to do some tweaking if links do not match how party names are displayed. Cheers, Number 5 7 21:33, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

December 2022

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to add unsourced or poorly sourced content, you may be blocked from editing. Please stop going from article to article adding "stuff you know" about the climate. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:20, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Results of the 2022 Swedish general election by constituency

Hi there. I very much welcome your interest in expanding election results content on Wikipedia. I support keeping the content of this article for now, but due to its considerable size, it may be best for the content to be moved into other articles. It is very standard on Wikipedia for extended election results to be in separate articles to the article about a given election, and for the results of any election to be spread among several articles. I encourage you to consider this when contributing to election-related content. If the article is deleted, I will retain the content of the article so that it won't be lost and can be retained. Onetwothreeip (talk) 09:12, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Copying within Wikipedia requires attribution

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Stavanger into Sandnes. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. DanCherek (talk) 02:55, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Your tables

Hi, I see you've been adding a lot of tables, and I have some changes you could consider. I made a change to a random smaller one, here:[1]

Here are some high level notes on things I've changed in the sections/tables you've been adding. I don't have a good way (or time) to bulk edit all of your tables, unfortunately (hoping you can do them faster if I tell you what I think about them):

Generally, don't use collapsible content (see MOS:DONTHIDE)
There's no need to have a separate cell simply saying "%" to show the reader which unit you're dealing with. In the case of percentages, it's a one character symbol that's better to place with the actual numbers. If it's a longer unit, you can place it in the same cell as the heading (see here for an example - "Value (km/h)", and not two cells: "value" and "km/h")
I don't think there's a rule on wikipedia about this, but generally numbers in tables are aligned right for readability.
I've used some more commonly seen wordings for English language headers (avoid "college" as it's an americanism, highlight monthly income over generally expected annual, don't abbreviate party names known only to Swedish speakers)
The "SV parents" column appears to be the inverse of the "1st/2nd gen" column - I've removed it as it's also possibly misrepresenting what it means (a person with one Swedish parent born in Sweden should count into this column as it's not in the "1st/2nd gen" one, but you've labeled it SV parents (plural))
Use some rowspan parameters to ensure that strip leftover from displaying block colours doesn't create empty cells under your headings
use the sortbottom class on the footer row, so it doesn't get moved when sorting the table
The repeating piece of text before the table is not necessary - I've moved explanations that aren't really required for most readers into tooltips, and the summaries are now inside the table
Use the table caption - it's helpful for accessibility

Hope this is helpful! EditorInTheRye (talk) 09:05, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@EditorInTheRye:Hi, I've implemented some changes to Torsås municipal template. The issue is that I've done so many of the municipalities at this point that sweeping changes of content. Any changes to the % and removal of individual sections in the actual tables would be a mountain to ascend. Thankfully for the general style of template I can do that because that is merely a copy and paste job. In hindsight I should have just gone with foreign heritage rather than including Swedish background too from the beginning. However, with 183 out of 290 municipalities completed that's a lot of work to change. I will copy the new general template to every single one I've made though during the next few days.

In municipalities with fewer than 10-15 districts I agree that I can keep them uncollapsed. For medium-sized municipalities and larger it is better that the reader can open them up if wanting to. Keeping medium-sized muncipalities' tables uncollapsed would be a recipe for disaster, the moment some editor who can't stand tables in general saw any of those. Your request is perfectly reasonable for Forshaga, Torsås, Grums et cetera and I will definitely make sure they're defaulted as viewable though :)

If there was an automatic average counter template I could use it otherwise it is way too much work to do for any municipality with more than 15,000 inhabitants. In particular because Statistics Sweden's website is a lot more obscure when it comes to data availability than it used to be. For example, finding income numbers without specifially requesting them by e-mail is impossible on there, which is why the state broadcaster with a lot more resources than me requested everything in bulk. I wish Statistics Sweden improved the data availability on their website, but sadly that won't happen anytime soon. At least SVT were able to build a very good election platform, but sadly missed out on the total demographics for each municipality.

I've implemented the content of the standard text within the headers of each demographic indicator.

I personally don't like tables with % scattered in every line. While not saying that they have no use, it's just that I'm not particularly fond of the readability. I think being a native Swedish speaker it comes from the way we generally sort tables in my native language. In effect, while conducting lengthy tables in Swedish newspapers et cetera, the reader is expected to understand what is a percentage and what is a number automatically. In addition, I could fix the tables in a few days using my linked formula for Torsås, but the other one would probably take months. I've removed the percentage header and put them in the general section describing what each represents. That in itself should make the tables a lot less cluttered with extra info.

Hopefully you'll understand my reasoning for implementing some but not all of the suggested changes. I've think the new template at least meets your suggestions a bit more than halfway and I agree that the sections do look better after applying some changes.

At least it's a lot better like this. While not perfect it definitely has cleaned the sections up and is easy to reproduce in the tables I've done before. I hope for understanding so that I'm able to finish these sections without any issues :) I've tried to at least meet more than halfway and do the best to make it as readable as possible. Thank you for your feedback and I wish you a good weekend. Glottran (talk) 10:18, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, that's a shame - maybe polishing is for another day then. Have you looked at using a text editor with multi-line editing capabilities to help you? It's useful for making changes to big tables on here. Sublime text is my favourite for this (example of someone using this)

I agree that some of the longer ones would probably benefit from being collapsed, although it would be great if the summary row could always show (unfortunately I couldn't find any options for this. I'm sure it's technically possible, but I couldn't work it out).

The averages on the bottom line are just weighted averages btw - you can work that out in any excel-like spreadsheet. Simplified, you multiply each percentage/salary figure by the population on that row, add up the entire column, then divide that by the total population.

Finally, I understand your preferences on formatting, but if your main concern is that it's how it's presented in Swedish, keep in mind that this is the language English wikipedia. There's no strict wikipedia-based rule against or for either that I know of, but I'm just saying that particular argument isn't that good. (I'll leave them be however, I have no desire to go on a bulk editing spree).

Keep up the good work! EditorInTheRye (talk) 11:04, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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