User talk:Eothan

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Fair Use in Australia discussion

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List of libraries in Australia page

Hi, Eothan. I restored your edits per this request. However, please don't use block letters for titles. Can you change them back to normal? Thanks. Abelmoschus Esculentus (talk to me) 13:46, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

will do Eothan (talk) 00:36, 20 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Excessive information on images and external links

Hi, Eothan! I notice you are adding somewhat excessive amounts of information on images and external links, see MOS:CREDITS and WP:ELCITE. Generally the principle is to add a caption (for images) or commentary on external links sufficient to explain the image/link in terms of the article content. It is expected that meta-data for images is held on Commons and that can be obtained by clicking on the image. So for John King, we just need to say it's John King and give a date if possible and name the place, circumstances etc if it has any relevance e.g. "John King receiving his award from Queen Victoria in Buckingham Palace, 1860". The fact that the image comes from the State Library of NSW isn't really of any relevance to the article; this information should be (and is) on Commons and doesn't need repeating. Similarly, in the Burke and Wills expedition article, I think would be more appropriate to say "Drawings illustrating the Burke and Wills exploring expedition crossing the continent of Australia from Cooper's Creek to Carpentaria Aug 1860-June 1861 by William Strutt held at State Library of New South Wales", as clicking through to that link will provide much of the other detail you have included. The point of contributing is to enhance the reader's understanding of the subject matter rather than to promote the source of the material. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Kerry (talk) 02:16, 8 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kerry, take your point but I have noticed many cultural institutions are credited on commons uploads to wiki pages ie. Pablo Picasso and closer to home Burke and Wills where there are:

Eugene Montagu Scott, Natives discovering the body of William John Wills, the explorer, at Coopers Creek, June 1861, oil on canvas, 1862, State Library of Victoria which links to the library not the catalogue record

William Hodgkinson, Bulla, Queensland, watercolour, 1861, National Library of Australia. Hodgkinson briefly joined the Burke and Wills expedition at Swan Hill, and was a member of two relief expeditions. Bulla depicts the Victorian Relief Expedition in armed conflict with Bulloo Aborigines.

George Washington Lambert, Burke and Wills on the way to Mount Hopeless, watercolour, 1907, Bendigo Art Gallery

John Longstaff, Arrival of Burke, Wills and King at the deserted camp at Cooper's Creek, Sunday evening, 21 April 1861, oil on canvas, 1907, National Gallery of Victoria

Edward Jukes Greig, Arrival of Burke & Wills at Flinders River, oil on canvas, 1862, State Library of New South Wales

Nicholas Chevalier, Memorandum of the Start of the Exploring Expedition, oil on canvas, 1860, Art Gallery of South Australia

I was thinking that in someways it does make sense to show readers about which institution and which country the images are held in without making them move to another page? Have you had this discussion with other intsitutions?

The extra descriptive content I added to give readers a fuller description of the content held in an album or manuscript collection thinking this would allow users to decide whether the content was worth their following up or not. I am happy to shorten if you think this doesn't add to the usefulness of the entry. I have to say I have been adding updates as they come up as a part of my research here at work so hope this isn't complicating things. Cheers Geoff. Eothan (talk) 03:36, 8 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I agree the Burke and Wills expedition article is full of bad examples of captions (and I have noted it in my list of things to clean up), but "two wrongs don't make a right". Your caption "Robert O'Hara Burke by William Strutt" is more acceptable than most of the captions of artworks in that article, which appear to emphasise the artist and the institution over what is being depiction. In photo captions, it is allowed to give artist credit if they are notable artists. Pablo Picasso is different as he is an artist and the images are of his works and the galleries which hold an artist's work form part of the information about the artist himself. His greatness as an artist is demonstrated by his works being held in leading galleries. The policy on captions is pretty clear and I do outreach work all the time with libraries including with the State Library of Queensland (who have donated tens of thousands of images to Wikimedia Commons) and am a member of the Wikipedia and Libraries User Group steering committee. The question to ask yourself is "do I know more about the Burke and Wills expedition because I know that image comes from the SLNSW or because there are 3 oval windows?" and I think the answer has to be No. The naming of the institution is more useful in the external link, as that is helpful to the reader to decide if this external link might be worth viewing, but again the policy is to be "brief" in the commentary which should address the relevance. Finally we do not put external links in the body of article or in photo captions (only as part of citations and in infobox fields that specifically ask for a URL). You might find this helpful Wikipedia:GLAM/Getting started, noting some of the "key questions". Kerry (talk) 04:44, 8 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kerry, have changed the captions and from now on am presuming captions referring to institutions only viable if the fact an item is held by a cultural institution promotes the status of the creator or if the actual painting/photo was notable enough for a page in its own right ie if the Guernica image was to appear on a page about the town it would not refer to the institution. Cheers Geoff. Eothan (talk) 05:00, 8 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well that is how I would interpret the policy, but as it happens, the article about the town does include the institution. Kerry (talk) 05:37, 8 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Your draft article, Draft:Antidesma Dallachyanum

Hello, Eothan. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Antidesma Dallachyanum".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Hhkohh (talk) 03:25, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: List of Fairfax Media Limited Business Archive (August 13)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Dan arndt was:

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject. Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

The comment the reviewer left was:

Fails WP:GNG, lacks any sources or references.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to User:Eothan/List of Fairfax Media Limited Business Archive and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to User:Eothan/List of Fairfax Media Limited Business Archive, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{db-self}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
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Dan arndt (talk) 05:00, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Eothan! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Dan arndt (talk) 05:00, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

State Library of New South Wales

Just by way of education (not criticising you), the use of an infobox is to describe the *topic* of the article, so it wasn't appropriate to add the infobox declaring this was the article about Sydney. So only add an infobox if it is directly about the topic. But I could see what you were trying to do (add a map), so I did it using the fields of the library infobox template that specify coords and specific a map on which to display coords (you could have a map of NSW or a map of Sydney or a map of central Sydney as the base map if you preferred -- the latter looks quite nice). You might well ask at this point "how was I supposed to know that?" to which my answer is "you probably couldn't" as documentation isn't one of our strengths :-( Even if you go to the documentation Template:Infobox library you will see the field "coords" described but not see any mention of the "location_map" field. I confess to looking into the source code to find out what field did the map selection since it wasn't documented but I figured there probably was a way to generate a map. If you are wanting to make maps in infoboxes, the base maps available to you are listed at Category:Australia location map templates. You use the part of the name after "data/" so use "Australian Sydney central" as the location_map field to see a much more local mapping of the coordinates. Never be afraid to ask, it's often the only way. One place often worth asking questions is the Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board. Most of the people who "hang out" there are experienced Australian contributors and familiar with contributing on Australian topics. Or in this case, you might have asked at Template talk:Infobox library. Kerry (talk) 05:23, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's excellent - I had a play around with trying to do this but you are right every-time I tried to add a map direct into the info box it failed. The idea of a central city Sydney map sounds good if there is one already in Wikimedia Commons. - thanks Kerry Eothan (talk) 06:22, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Frederick Spencer Burnell has been accepted

Frederick Spencer Burnell, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as C-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

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Legacypac (talk) 19:41, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well done on Frederick Burnell!

However, your links to Daka and Hull need to be disambiguated (i.e. there are more than one Daka article and more than one Hull article). I find it useful to display such links in orange by turning on:

Preference (top right of screen) > Gadgets > Turn on "Display links to disambiguation pages in orange" > Save (lower left)

which makes such things easy to spot. Kerry (talk) 22:02, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kerry - taking a while to learn the tricks of the trade - thanks for helping Eothan (talk) 02:15, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Gosh yes, there is a lot to learn. I've been here on-wiki since 2005 and I still learn new tricks from time to time. When not sure how to do something, please feel to ask me or ask at the Teahouse. Kerry (talk) 05:15, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

TA! - much appreciated - the more I do the more I feel this is the future for scholarship - I hope the wikiversity and humanities section gets a champion as I think this could really change approaches to research and publication particularly within the GLAM sector. Eothan (talk) 05:55, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, as it happens, there is a new initiative in this area, see WikiJournal of Humanities which complements WikiJournal of Medicine and WikiJournal of Science. WikiJournal Humanities is looking for people interested in submitting and reviewing articles as well as people interested in roles as journal editors and editorial board members, so maybe you can help be a driver of this change. Kerry (talk) 06:02, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I had a look at this a few weeks back and registered my interest & that I was OK to peer review but activity seems to be limited at the moment. I am sure there are all sorts of reasons but it would be great if there could be a focus on highlighting a role for this perhaps as a scholarship or funded wiki activity to kick start it. I have too much on my plate but am happy to support an initiative in this direction. Eothan (talk) 06:14, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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User:Eothan/List of Fairfax Media Limited Business Archive

Hello, Eothan. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, User:Eothan/List of Fairfax Media Limited Business Archive.

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it. — JJMC89 (T·C) 17:36, 1 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Linking articles

Please don't use urls, just use this sort of bracket [[name]]. See Help:link. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 10:36, 12 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Excessive information on images and external links

Your draft article, Draft:Antidesma Dallachyanum

Your submission at Articles for creation: List of Fairfax Media Limited Business Archive (August 13)

State Library of New South Wales

Your submission at Articles for creation: Frederick Spencer Burnell has been accepted

Well done on Frederick Burnell!

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