User talk:Enderandpeter/Archive 1

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Hello!

Greetings, all of you bold Wikipedia editors! If there's anything you'd like to discuss with me or others who post here, fire away. Just be polite and please don't edit anything you didn't input (unless you are fixing markup or spelling/grammatical errors and the person you are correcting doesn't protest your edit). Otherwise, go nuts! --Enderandpeter (talk) 02:22, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Knut Royce

Hello. I noticed you questioning the very existence of the Knut Royce articles sourced in the Gulf War page. The suggestopn that the articles have been fabricated was rather unsettling, so I've uploaded two of Knut Royce newsday articles to scribd.com I will link you to both of them and suggest the following: email Knut Royce, link him to the two articles below, and ask him to attest to their validity. 1.http://www.scribd.com/doc/38969813/MIDDLE-EAST-CRISIS-Secret-Offer-Iraq-Sent-Pullout-Deal-to-U-S-ALL-EDITIONS 2.http://www.scribd.com/doc/38969813/MIDDLE-EAST-CRISIS-Secret-Offer-Iraq-Sent-Pullout-Deal-to-U-S-ALL-EDITIONS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.159.14.171 (talk) 18:12, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for finding the Secret Offer article! I had a feeling the cited articles existed, but I just wanted to be totally sure. I did suggest that the Royce articles may not exist, but I assure you that my main purpose of doing so was to incite people, like yourself, to provide more information. I think I was unable to find them because no universities in my city archive the "Washington Bureau" version of Newsday.

I did indeed have the privilege of talking to the good Knut Royce himself via email, and he definitely remembered these articles. He informed me of a library in Melville, N.Y. that contains pretty much everything from all the Newsday syndicates.

Now, I have a feeling you intended to share a link of both the Secret Offer article and the one titled Iraq Offers Deal to Quit Kuwait U.S. rejects it, but stays "interested". However, above you provided two links to the Secret Offer one. Do you indeed have access to the second article? And if so, would you kindly post it to scribd.com as well? A more complete citation for it is: Knut Royce. Iraq Offers Deal to Quit Kuwait U.S. rejects it, but stays "interested". [NASSAU AND SUFFOLK Edition] WASHINGTON BUREAU. Newsday. (Combined editions). Long Island, N.Y.: Jan 3, 1991. pg. 05

Thanks a lot, again, for helping. I'll incorporate this information into that Gulf War section as soon as I can. Enderandpeter (talk) 17:50, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi. Here it is. http://www.scribd.com/doc/38969954/Iraq-Offers-Deal-to-Quit-Kuwait-U-S-rejects-it-but-stays-interested-NASSAU-AND-SUFFOLK-Edition —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.159.14.171 (talk) 12:46, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you very much, sir. Enderandpeter (talk) 15:30, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Karenga

In 1970, Karenga was arrested and charged with several felony offenses. In 1971 court testimony, one of Karenga’s accusers detailed two days during which she said Karenga and three associates brutalized her and another woman. The women, Deborah Jones and Gail Davis, were both former members of a group Karenga still heads, called The Organization Us. Jones testified during the trial, but Davis was unavailable and believed to be in Jamaica recovering from injuries suffered during the torture, according to the Los Angeles Times. Karenga was convicted for attacks on Jones, including charges of felonious assault and false imprisonment, that happened in 1970 at Karenga’s home in Inglewood, Calif. According to a Los Angeles Times account of testimony published at the time of the trial, Karenga and the other men forced the women to remove their clothes, and beat them with an electrical cord and a karate baton. The men put a hot soldering iron in one woman’s mouth and against her face, and they squeezed one woman’s big toe in a vise, the Times reported. Karenga’s former wife, Brenda Lorraine Karenga, testified he sat on one woman’s stomach while another man forced water into her mouth through a hose, according to the Times., - :“Vietnamese torture is nothing compared to what I know,” Karenga allegedly told the women, the Times reported Oct. 7, 1970, shortly after Karenga’s arrest. Karenga denied all these charges, but he was nevertheless sentenced to a one-to-ten year sentence in prison with "counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment." News reports vary on whether Karenga served four or five years of the sentence. A state report on Karenga’s mental state presented at his sentencing described his behavior as “bizarre” and “confused and not in contact with reality,” the Times reported. . Copies of these articles are available for viewing at the Los Angeles Times' website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Republic of Texas (talk • contribs) 04:59, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Is this what you had originally posted on the Karenga article that the other editors didn't like? I suppose they felt there were too many quotes and not enough paraphrasing. I can understand their preference given the style of most Wikipedia articles. Also, some of your paraphrasing above may bear too strong of a resemblance to the actual wording of the articles. They were probably most uncomfortable with the level of detail of his conviction you provided. Though it's highly debatable, I think it would be more productive to cater to their comfort and not give so many details outright in the article, but if people want to know the specific charges and testimonies, they can easily view the citation links. Have you indeed read the LA Times articles you include here? If so, I would suggest adding them to the little paragraph I made at the end of the Karenga, US and Legal Controversy section. I wouldn't mind doing that myself, I would just prefer to read them first, which I won't be able to do (for free) until tomorrow. Someone suggested that the LA Times articles are somehow not reliable, but seeing how it's abundantly clear that these are real news articles, I'd ignore such criticism. Thanks for letting me know the particular articles in question by the way. As far as the lasuperiorcourt.org link, it looks like that link goes to a general page for searching for court documents. Have you found the archives for Karenga's trial in particular? Enderandpeter (talk) 15:48, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Man, fuck those people. If the 'creator' of the Red Cross was a convicted felon who tortured women, don't you think there would be more than a sentence or two in his/her wiki article? Yeah, I read the actual LA Times articles. It only costs a couple of bucks to look at them. Since they were written way back in 1971 when all that stuff was happening, I think it is pretty safe to assume that it's accurate. nobody knew him then except as some crazy negro who kidnapped some womens. This is not like a parking ticket or smoking some weed. To kidnap some people then torture them, you've got to be a pretty fucked up person. Most people go all their lives without kidnapping or torturing folks. It's not that hard to do. Since I used quotes and atributed them to the LA Times or that other newspaper, I don't see why that girl got all bent outta shape at what I wrote. Republic of Texas (talk) 04:35, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Well... again, I understand why they weren't happy about the contribution you made-- they found it to be a little too inflammatory. I'll admit that that's a debatable point. However, in the spirit of cooperation, it's best to indeed include this factual info and not to rub it in so much. Given how you originally wrote about this info, I do understand why people got bent out of shape. Since I'm more in the business of making friends than enemies (and it helps to have friends here), I'm of the mindset that it's unwise to upset too many people, especially when they agree on the factual nature of your contributions. Ultimately, all the information you stated is now in the article. If people want more detailed info, they have all of those news articles to look at. It is a little discomforting how adamant some people are to not include this information at all (check out the recent history of the Karenga article and my response to the person who got rid of what I added), but there is a clear agreement among the editors that this info shouldn't be excluded. If there's any more trouble, one could easily appeal to a higher authority on this site and they'd easily agree that this information should be included. I'd rather not get to that point. Also, note how Karenga had built a notable reputation more through the Us Organization and less for his torturing. That event seemed to be a major turning point and helped to dismantle the organization. He appears to have gone through some kind of reformation, but it is truly sad that he won't talk about this dark chapter in his history.

By the way, you mentioned that one of those LA Times article contains a confession from him. Which article is that? Also, do you have any other information about the case number or name of the case in question here? It would help to post that as a source as well. Enderandpeter (talk) 14:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:List of nicknames of United States presidents

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---

I think the progress of this article is reflecting the healthy discussion on the talk page. There's one thing I'm going to address. The footnote about the nickname "Dubya" in George W. Bush's section contains a dead link. I found an archived version and I added a citation template for that source. I need to find a reference that more directly talks about his nickname. This Journal Record article only briefly mentions it and mainly talks about unflattering nicknames for US Presidents of the past.

As far as books about George W Bush's life and where "Dubya" came from, I'll start here

Well, that was interesting... I went to the BPL to check out some of the books I linked to above, and sadly not everything listed as shelved was actually present. The only books on George W Bush I could find in that section were heavily critical of him and were committed to demonstrating how unintelligent he was, or how secretive and deceptive his government was, or how irresponsible he was, and how terrible he was in general. I did not see any straight-up biographies, like this one... They do have a book called The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty that looked promising at first, and they even have an electronic version, thanks to that wonderful resource known as eBrary. The word "Dubya" is not in there once. I'm hoping CU Library's collection yields better results. And for the life of me, I cannot find a reliable source that talks about his nickname searching on Google. I'm sure I'll find something...

6/19/2012 The Bush Tragedy notes how Bush II relinquished "Junior" nicknames when his political career took form in Texas. He then sided with "George W." or merely "W" "pronounced "Dubya"

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Looking forward to seeing you at the Wiknic!

Heya! It's been a while -- I hope we can catch up at the Boulder Wiknic tomorrow! -- Gaurav (talk) 02:51, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Hey, Guarav. It's indeed been some time. My has a lot happened since I was at the last Wikipedia gathering... It will be good to participate in such a thing again. Sadly, my laptop battery died, and I've not the funds to replace it at the moment. But, I'm sure I can deal with that in time.

Sorry about the clutter, by the way. As you can see, I've not done much here for a bit. But maybe tomorrow will help get me going again... I'll see you there. It's still at noon, I take it? Any time's good for me. Ender and Peter 04:55, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

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Terribly short notice: Boulder WLM on 15 September

Apologies for getting this out so late, but this is all Pharos' fault. Please blame everything on Pharos.

That said, this message is just to let you know that we're having a photo hunt for Wiki Loves Monuments at 11:00 in the morning of Saturday the 15th in Boulder, probably somewhere around CU, though the exact location hasn't yet been decided. Since you have previously attended or expressed interest in other meetups in the area, hopefully you might be able to come.

Please sign up as soon as possible if you're interested; we'd love to have you along to help postpone the squirrel apocalypse. Or at least get some decent images. -— Isarra ༆ 05:02, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

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		Hello, Ender and peter.
		You have new messages at Talk:Ali. -- Ibrahim ebi (talk) 04:51, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

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Diving back in

Hi Ender! Sorry for the very late reply: you should sign up for the Colorado Wikimedians' mailing list -- that's where we're going to be organizing events and suchlike from here on out. I'm actually going to be out of Boulder from January until June 2013, so I won't be organizing any events m'self. But hopefully you and User:Isarra and User:Nealmcb and everybody else will keep organizing stuff! Isarra and I just made plans for a meetup next week, to be announced on WP:Meetup/Boulder shortly. Hope to see you there! -- Gaurav (talk) 06:09, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Fort Hood shooting

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Please comment on Talk:Keith B. Alexander

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Please comment on Talk:Prestonwood Baptist Church

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Please comment on Talk:Kurban Said

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Expanded

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Please comment on Talk:Mohamed Said Ramadan Al-Bouti

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Please comment on Talk:George Maharis

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Please comment on Talk:List of vegans

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Please comment on Talk:Location of Osama bin Laden

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Please comment on Talk:Salmaan Taseer

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Please comment on Talk:Georges Yatridès

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Please comment on Talk:Kriyananda

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Those tags in Persecution of Biharis in Bangladesh

Now that you have included the contents about the rapes, how come the tags are still there? Again, there was not a clear consensus about the inclusion.--AsceticRosé 06:41, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I left the tags up because I wanted to be sure that Kmzayeem, clearly the strongest opponent to removing them, was satisfied. I did see some disagreement regarding the addition of that information, but it was clearly the one thing remaining that the user felt mandated the tags and it did not seem like too big of a compromise to include it. It's definitely not insignificant information and it is pertinent to the article. In the end, it's good for an article that details abuse towards a group to also candidly describe, albeit briefly, abuses that members of the group itself have committed that are verifiable and appear to be strongly relevant to the beef between them. In the end, I think the article was improved. Ender and Peter 14:47, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

As I pointed in that talk page, I would have removed the tags myself but some user opted to revert which clearly shows their disrespect for others' opinions. Anyway, thanks a lot for your efforts, Ender.--Zayeem ^(talk) 14:58, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, thanks to all.AsceticRosé 17:05, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style

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Please comment on Talk:Next United Kingdom general election

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Please comment on Wikipedia:Requests for Comment/Duplicate name in basic ASCII character set

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Please comment on Talk:Queen Sonja of Norway

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Please comment on Talk:Pricasso

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Please comment on Talk:Bangladesh

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Please comment on File talk:Samesex marriage in USA.svg

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject History

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Please comment on Talk:Mythology

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