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Question from BizBen (11:35, 14 October 2024)

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Hi, how would I start finding the articles where I can start editing them on the minor level. I need to find articles relevant to my business. How do I find them? --BizBen (talk) 11:35, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BizBen: Hi there. Wikipedia is not for promoting a business. I'm not certain that's what you intend but it's a common enough issue on this site that I figured I should let you know regardless. If you'd simply like to write encyclopedic articles about businesses, you might be interested in Wikipedia:WikiProject Brands? I can try to be more specific if you'd like to give me some more detail of what exactly you're looking for. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 15:36, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For you

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A panda stamp for you!
For all you've done to make Wikipedia a friendly and welcoming place, your ability to see the best in people no matter what, and for your efforts to expand articles on difficult and complicated subjects, here is a panda stamp.

(The stamp, face value 8 fen was issued in 1973 by the People's Republic of China.) GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 08:19, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! That's such a nice stamp. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 16:43, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Mooy Ndinelago (00:10, 16 October 2024)

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Hi my mentor

Joe are you? My name is Ms Mooy and I am from Namibia. I am happy to be mentored by you.

Kindly assist me on how to edit and rate my work

Thank you --Mooy Ndinelago (talk) 00:10, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mooy Ndinelago: My name is not Joe. It's nice to meet you too, though. Is there anything specific you'd like help on? Generally, editors don't "rate" each other's work, unless an article is going through a quality review process like this. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 00:28, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Noted.
Just help me where I make mistakes
And correct mr Mooy Ndinelago (talk) 12:50, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mooy Ndinelago: I can try, but if you're ever unsure about something in particular, it's easiest to just ask me as I have a lot on my plate and I'd rather not follow you around everywhere because then can easily turn into something that makes the person on the other side feel unwelcome. I took a glance at your contributions and apart from your somewhat promotional user page (which Wikipedia is not really for, but believe me, I've seen people who do it much more egregiously), it looks like your contributions are off to a decent start. Perhaps you'd be interested in Wikipedia:WikiProject Namibia? Plenty of topics about your country could be improved and I'm all for people who have this knowledge to share it. I often write about things in Canada because that's where I'm from. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 03:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 19 October 2024

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* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:13, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Tryptofish

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I don't think this is something that can be resolved online. Unfortunately, Tryptofish is somewhat reticent to discussing anything off-site, but I think that's the only way you two can resolve this. Just my opinion. I actually think the whole thing could be resolved in a private chat in about ten minutes, but good luck trying to get him to do that. Viriditas (talk) 22:16, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt that there's literally anything I could do that would resolve the situation at this point. It's disappointing but I'll have to live with it. What I can do is try to be as welcoming as I can and push back against baseless sockpuppetry accusations whenever I see them elsewhere on the site. Be the change I want to see, as always. I admit it does get a bit exhausting sometimes. I've lost some of the joy I've had lately (it doesn't really have anything to do with this situation, just a general sense of everything that's happened in the past few months burning me out), hence my semi-wikibreak. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 22:43, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it's tough. You have to forge your own path in the world, otherwise it will chew you up and spit you out. Sun Tzu had some interesting thoughts: "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer". It's pretty deep if you take some time to think about it. The trick is to turn your enemies into friends; I'm still learning how to to do it. One of the best pieces of advice I've heard is to "meet people where they are". It's quite a challenge, and there's some joy in it! Viriditas (talk) 23:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want to see him as my enemy or for him to see me as his. But it's way past the point where it feels like I'm having an argument like this but à la sockpuppetry. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 23:40, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right, but "enemy" in this context isn't really supposed to mean your literal enemy, but anyone you find yourself involved with in a dispute or conflict. The point is that you can fight your "battle" and win by bringing the enemy over to your side without ever firing a shot or sending in the troops. One popular way to think about this is in terms of a debate. When you have a debate, the goal, strangely enough, isn't to defeat the person you are debating with, but to win the audience, real or imagined, over to your side, thereby achieving a fait accompli, which forces your opponent to accept the legitimacy of the outcome. When you combine this with the strategy of meeting people where they are, you might get your desired response in the future from your opponent, rather than at that moment in time, since by avoiding addressing the person specifically, you have given them breathing room to think about their position rather than being backed into a corner. In many ways, you are backing Tryptofish into a corner on his talk page, so he will just react defensively, as he did. Viriditas (talk) 23:55, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What are you suggesting I do instead? I think I've already convinced the audience as it were, I'm just hoping that maybe I can convince him of the same thing. I keep hoping I might get somewhere every time I write something, but maybe it's for the best if I log off for the night.
@Tryptofish: How about, if you ever change your mind, you come to me? You can engage with the logic of these arguments whenever you want to on your own terms. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 00:08, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I apologize for any stress I may have contributed to with my comments. Viriditas (talk) 00:12, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You were only trying to help. I appreciate that. It probably sucks to see two people you know arguing and not being able to do anything to stop it. I know from experience. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 00:20, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Viriditas, thanks for your very helpful ideas. Clovermoss, I've already, quite some time ago, apologized and corrected what I had gotten wrong. You are definitely not a sock. In fact, I never called you a sock at your RfA. You seem to want me to acknowledge some sort of wrong on my part, concerning what I said to you when you initiated a discussion on my talk page, for which I already apologized. I understand that you are saying that sock accusations, when incorrect, contribute to a deterioration of community cohesiveness. I agree with you about that. And I hope that you in turn will engage with the arguments of what I have said to you at my talk. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:23, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that you are saying that sock accusations, when incorrect, contribute to a deterioration of community cohesiveness, I'm glad we can at least agree on that. That's the whole point of me trying to convince you that this is just a microcosm of a larger problem in our community. It's why I feel like maybe you're missing the point of what I'm saying or what I want from this situation. But we can't change the future if we never learn from the past.

In regards to the asking for other's opinions thing, I really wasn't trying to be harsh on you there (someone else told me in private that this may have come across more hurtful than I intended). But the idea was, we're not on the best of terms. Ask other people what they think. Sometimes friends can get through to you in a way that others can't. I wasn't meaning just Viriditas, I really did just mean go and ask other people what they think. Because sometimes friends get across to you in a way that other people don't. And hey, maybe you're still left being the only one who has the opinion that you're right. But whenever I'm in a situation like that, I try to seriously reflect if I'm ever finding myself there. Because if I disagree with everyone, I think I really need to examine whether my arguments hold enough merit to do so.

I don't doubt that you were very observant in comparing that photograph of me and a stranger that you think is a sock. I do think you're missing my point in that this action is reckless and harmful to the community at large, especially if you come across some other editor you think physically resembles that person. There's more harm that's done by accusing an innocent person than by letting someone who is guilty walk away from things. It's why many justice systems work on principles like that. I'm in a weird position in that I have power. If we were having this exchange back in 2018 when I was a newbie and a complete nobody, I probably never would've felt welcome as a Wikipedian to begin with. I would've left because it was a toxic mess. And sometimes I have to fight the urge not to leave even now because I care too much about seeing unfair things happen. I try to do the best that I can but it all gets pretty disheartening sometimes. I don't why I even try other than this desperate hope that maybe it helps change things.

I don't disagree that socks can cause harm. I do think that overreacting and accusing people who write a comment that sounds like something a sock would say does more harm than good (what initially made you doubt me). And that was enough to say that something about me as a person is "off" at my RfA. I believe we drive away innocent people away when these things happen. That it's letting people who actually do harm "win" because some accusations here or there isn't going to stop someone like that. Because I've been quite angsty lately, I've been spending more time away from Wikipedia. In particular, I've been watching a show called Deep Space Nine. There's some episodes I watched recently that remind me of what I'm trying to get at here (Homefront and Paradise Lost). If you feel like humouring me and have Netflix or can borrow a DVD of the series from your local library, I'd be interested on your thoughts on these episodes. Basically, people let their paranoia of who could be a changeling (an alien that can shapeshift and potentially be anyone) get the better of their judgement and they end up sabotaging themselves in the process. But everyone involved thinks they're doing the right thing. I don't think our articles really do it justice and I think it's something you need to see to understand why I thought the comparison might be useful. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 02:37, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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