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Hello. I think my draft was unjustifiably rejected ("Melissa Martínez (fighter)")

It was argued that 'Combate Americas' is not a "top-tier" MMA organization, according to the 'WikiProject Mixed martial arts/MMA notability' article. That promotion has several top ranked fighters, not just regionally (in regions with hundreds of athletes), but world-level-wise. To cite some examples of fighters that belong to the 'Combate Americas' roster, that are top-ranked fighters by very well-recognized websites (like Tapology, Sherdog, Fight Matrix): Érik Pérez, ranked #33 bamtamweight in the world; Kyra Batara, ranked #20 atomweight in the world; and Melissa Martínez herself (the martial artist the 'draft' was created about), who is ranked, at strawweight, #9 in Latinamerica (amongst 268 fighters), #2 in Mexico, and #79 in the world; plus, she's a national champion in several martial arts; and she's a world champion in kickboxing, winning second place in the Worlds - Wroclaw, Poland (60Kg Womens division)... So PLEASE, let me create this page. I hope you understand. And also, have a good day  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andymman (talk • contribs) 16:06, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi Andymman Greetings to you and thank you for your question above.
  1. MMA - As per the WP:MMA, the top tier for MMA promoter are Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) and Invicta Fighting Championships (Invicta) - see WP:MMATIER. The top tier is defined as active organizations with multiple male fighters ranked in the top 10 in any of the 12 weight classes by multiple independent ranking sources. Unfortunately, Combate Americas does not have have multiple fighters ranked in Top in the world at the moment.
  2. Kickboxing - As per WP:NKICK, Martinez have not fought in any of the promotions indicated or has ranked been ranked in the world top 10 by multiple independent publications, for such Martinez does not meet the notability of WP:NKICK.
You are welcome to resubmit the article when Martinez meets the notability criteria as per above, for per current, it is WP:TOOSOON. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 01:37, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Original Barnstar
all the drill and efforts have to be assessed.... Marianblog (talk) 16:16, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi Marianblog thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 11:34, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Melissa Martínez (fighter)

I really don't know anything about this topic, but is K-1 mentioned in WP:NKICK the same as what is mentioned in the article? I thought if she won a silver medal in that it might qualify. Again, I don't know anything about this, so feel free to ignore me if I'm wrong. ;) Bradv 01:56, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

She may also qualify under WP:SPORTBASIC as a medalist at the 2017 World Games, a major international sporting event. Bradv 02:13, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi Bradv, Greetings to you and thank you for the questions above. Kindly see below:
  1. World Games -Under the WP:SPORTBASIC, athletes would meet the notability if they have competed in professional competition at the highest level such as in the Olympics, Commonwealth Games, world cups of their disciplines, certain well-recognized events such as Australian Open for tennis and Tour de France for cycling and etc. where significant coverage by independent, reliable source is needed. If you look at the sport notability requirement under WP:NSPORTS, none has mentioned World Games.
  1. Kickboxing - K-1 is a Japanese kickboxing "promotion organisation" started in 1993. Competing under "the competition of K1-Rules" does not mean competed under K-1 organisation events. Just as in basketball the distance from the arc to basket three-point field goal is different from different events, notable, in the National Basketball Association (NBA) the arc is 23 feet 9 inches , in in FIBAis 22 feet 1 in 3/4 inches and in National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) the arc is 20 feet 9 inches. Say one basketball organisation in Russia adopts NCAA three-point field goal rule, the players compete in the event is not considered NCAA players. To say all that, even muaythai has been around longer than MMA, publications on Muay Thai and kickboxing events is not the same, in terms of routine record and the proliferation fight news (besides event in K-1 and Glory), as what we could see today in MMA as MMA is the fastest growing sport today thank to the success of The Ultimate Fighter TV event in US in 2006 that not only saved UFC from the brink of bankrupcy but introduced MMA to the American audience and put MMA on the world map among other combat sports, especially on the final episode of the bout between Forrest Griffin vs Stephan Bonnar for the Light Heavyweight title.[1][2]
Hope I my explanation find your question answered and if you not a MMA fan yet or not not watch an MMA event, I invite you to watch this coming UFC 225 on June 8, 2018. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 03:16, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
  1. ^ "Today in MMA History: Forrest Griffin and Stephan Bonnar save the UFC – or so the story goes". MMAjunkie. 2018-04-10. Retrieved 2018-06-05.
  2. ^ "Retrospective: The Ultimate Fighter, season one". WON/F4W - WWE news, Pro Wrestling News, WWE Results, UFC News, UFC results. 2016-01-27. Retrieved 2018-06-05.

.

Friend. Why are you doing this to me?

You're saying Combate America has a short history, and that the fighter of my draft doesn't have "notabiliy" enough? There are several fighters that haven't fought in the supposedly "top-tier" organizations you mention. What about Angela Lee?, just to use her as an example. She has a Wikipedia page, and she hasn't fought in a "top-tier" organization for MMA, and she fights for an MMA promotion (ONE Championship) that has the same time that Combate Americas (since July/August of 2011); so, didn't you say Combate Americas has a "short history"? You also say that "Combate Americas does not have have multiple fighters ranked in Top in the world"; so let me ask you: How many fighters ONE Championship has ranked in top in the world??? You see??

You also said that 

 "Martinez have not fought in any of the promotions indicated or has ranked been ranked in the world top 10 by multiple independent publications, for such Martinez does not meet the notability of WP:NKICK"...

So, using my last example: Angela Lee hasn't fought in any of the "promotion indicated" and also has not been ranked in the world top 10 by multiple independent publications"... Yet she has a Wikipedia page... Very contradictory, and a showing that you guys can let me create the page about a fighter that has been a runner up for world titles, and is the best striker in her country (and national and international championships won, that show that, by Martínez).

You mention that 

"Panamerican Kickboxing Championship and Kickboxing category at the 'World Games 2017' are not part of the one of the major organizations or promotions for kickoboxing under WP:NKICK. I do a WP:BEFORE and found no source indicate Martinez has been raked in world top 10 by any major independent publications"...

Well, let me ask you: Has Angela Lee been ranked top 10 in the world, in anything ever? No, absolutely no.

It was also mentioned: 

 "Amateur MMA fighters are not considered notable (unless they can pass WP:GNG under other criteria)
  Criteria supporting notability
    -Have fought at least three (3) professional fights for a top-tier MMA organization, such as the UFC (see WP:MMATIER); or
    -Have fought for the highest title of a top-tier MMA organization
  Criteria supporting deletion
    Only amateur bouts
    Few fights for top-tier organizations"

... So again, let me ask you. How many fights has Angela Lee in a "top-tier MMA organization? NONE. And Melissa Martínez, does not have only "amateur bouts", so another wrong thing there.

Also, it was stated that 

"Wikipedia requires significant coverage (not just mere mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject" ...

Which is also not truth about my draft, cause I cited references to the webpages of the international orgamisms (like 'Combate Americas' or 'The World Games', the subject I'm writting about, has competed for. So another unfair statements in favor of the decliment of the page I worked so much for, and that I CREATED TO HELP WIKIPEDIA AND support underrated martial aritsts.

It's unfair, please don't do this to me. You know it is not fair. Why do you do this to me? I put a lot of work in creating a page like this one, supporting Wikipedia, and I spent my time and effort doing it. Why?????? The fair thing to do is that you delete most of the fighters from ONE Championship that have Wikipedia pages, then; but I know you won't, so please, let me create this page, I promise I will edit what ever you tell me and look for more reliable sources. PLEASE! I beg you to reconsider my arguments, and I know it's not fair a declining, and you also would know it, if YOU USE YOUR CRITERION. PLEASE!! :( — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andymman (talk • contribs) 04:56, 5 June 2018 (UTC)


Hi Andymman Good day. I could sense your frustration especially you have spent a fair amount of time and effort on researching and writing the article, especially if you are the fan of the fighter. I do understand as I have written about 60 fighters' article in Wikipedia. I could see that you know a fair bit about MMA. I do have questions from other editors as like your and some of them failed to accept Wikipedia's policies and guidelines are not perfect nor it would meet everybody expectations for Wikipedia is global volunteered project. This will be a long message, so take your time to read it and I try to explain what is needed as my best ability.
=== General info ===
  1. First of all, we the Wikipedians/editors are volunteers, so please be patient as editors would respond only in their free time. If editors you address to have not answered you questions, kindly wait a little longer.
  2. You dont need to create a new discussion section (either reply or new message) every single time. It is best to contain all the messages under one topic. What you have to do is to click "edit source" next to this message title " Friend. Why are you doing this to me?" and scroll it the bottom and start writing.
  3. Pls sign off after you have finished your message by inserting ~~~~ at the end.
=== Sport specific notability ===
Some background first. Wikipedia has many portal/WikiProjects and the members of the WikiProject defined in consensus agreement of general and notability guidelines of MMA promoter and fighter. WikiProject MMA stared in 2005 and that was before my time in Wikipedia family. Like most of the sport specify notability guidelines in Wikipedia, they are defined by player/athletes have competed in certain well recognized leagues such as in NFL in American Gridiron and NBA in basketball, competed in the highest level of competition in their discipline such as Rugby World Cup in Rugby, IAAF World Championships in Athletics in tracks & fields and FIVB Volleyball Men's World Championship in volleyball, competed in well recognized event such as Tour de France in cycling and France Open in tennis and including Olympics, Commonwealth Games; have been ranked in the world in the top position by multiple independent media where significant coverage by independent, reliable source is needed. If you see WP:MMATIER, Combate Americas is not in the list. In addition, If you look at the sport notability requirement under WP:NSPORTS, none has mentioned World Games.
=== MMA Promoters ===
There are some promoters such as ONE Championship in Asia, BAMMA in England, Rizin Fighting Federation and Pancrase in Japan, Absolute Championship Berkut (ACB) and M-1 (MMA) in Russia, Jungle Fight in Brazil, KSW), Ballator, King of the Cage, recently Professional Fighters League formerly know as WSOF and here we also have Combate Americas. Some of are reputable and have been around for long time. Unfortunately, they are not considered Tier on promoters at the moment. To be Tier 1 under the promoter needs to have multiple fighters fought under the organisation have been ranked top 15 in the world by independent media - see Sherdog May ranking [1], MMA Junkie ranking [2], Tapology ranking [3], MMA work ranking [4], ESPN ranking [5] and Fight Matrix ranking [6] just to name some. Most of the fighters qualify in the ranking are UFC fighters and even there are enough fighter make it to the ranking, it has to consistence and not only lasted for a few months. To say all that and slightly off topic here, I do recognised the rating on viewing recent Combate Americas has been healthy. As MMA fans, we also know that no all the UFC fighters who merit a page in Wikipedia are better then other fighters in other organisation, especially those fighters were signed for short notice replacement where the event were held in their native country. There are a few fighters from my country who fighting skills are much lower than other fighters but they got signed by UFC. And we also know that UFC would not plan an event in country that give them no benefit in monetary as in live gate/ppv/sales of UFC merchandise and they also have to consider local time against US time/TV slot/availability of good venue/marketing/local support/MMA legality in that country/political consideration. Just look at Singapore, UFC has been there 2 times and planing to go back there annually for the next 3 year and yet no UFC fighters are from Singapore; Germany - currently there are Nick Hein, Peter Sobotta and Jessin Ayari and none of them are in UFC top 15 of their weight categories but UFC has been to Germany for 5 times so far and only 2 times in Poland where UFC has more good fighters from Poland, notably Joanna Jędrzejczykand Karolina Kowalkiewicz. If UFC would sale an event to the whole country, suit US time slot and in the process of making hips of money, that would be a good business decision and as have seen why UFC always to back to Australia. If Mark Hunt or Robert Whittaker are in UFC's Australia fight card event, not only AUS would watch but New Zealand as well. In short, there are many fighters well deserved but in reality they have not fought in the top tier promoters which currently are UFC and Invicta.
=== Angela Lee ===
Reviewers in Wikipedia are volunteers and some are new/or not familiar with sport specific notability (SSN) as there are so many sport specific notability guidelines in Wikipedia. Besides SSN there are many other such notability guidelines such as military, academic, politician, celebrity, airplanes,architecture, album, and etc just to name some. I often have to check the notability guidelines myself, for example - when I review a soccer player who plays under a Middle East league, where I have no idea if the league is in the list of fully professional leagues kept by WikiProject Football. I usually would not review a highly technical article with lot of high level mathematics proof/functions where I have to go back to university to take a few subjects of the said topic prior I could comprehend the article let alone review it. There are thousand of articles should be proposed for deletion (PROD) in Wikipedia. Even for an article has gone through the reviewed and place in the mainspace, they are subject at anytime to be PRODed - see Articles for deletion discussion (AfD). Even a page has survived through AfD, it would still be subject to re-PROD in the future by editors should the subject fail to meet the notability guidelines. Angela Lee page had been created twice prior has accepted [7] - the page would be PRODed by any editor based on the WP:MMABIO ground. Sometimes we let the article sits on the main page especially if the subject already in Tier 1 promotion and would make the notability in very near future. However, to say all that, no amount of edits or references will merit a page in Wikipedia, if the subject is not notable.
If your article is reviewed and placed in the mainspace, it would/might be PRODed. If you would like to create another fighter who is notable I could recommend you one or two. Personally, I would like to see a few more tier 2 promoters to be accepted as notable such as Ballator. There were many editors pushing for Bellator to be accepted when Rory MacDonald, Gegard Mousasi and Ryan Bader made the move to Ballator - see here - [8] and [9]. There is also another editor who is an MMA journalist from Eastern Europe, who covered many major MMA events including UFC's events, was so frustrated and disappointed when he found out that KSW's fighters are considered not notable in Wikipedia for his had submitted 2 articles for review which were not accepted. To be fair, he know more about MMA than I and most of the MMA editors in Wikipedia especially on the inside stories which are not reported to public. Currently, MMA is the fastest growing sport in the world; however, it has only been around for 25 years. There will come a time, when more fighters/promoters are placed on Tier 1 list especially when more athletes would choose MAA as their career instead of soccer/baseball/gridiron. This will happen when fighters are well-compensated and the general public is educated about MMA and acceptance of the sport. I am looking forward to seeing that. Thank you for your contribution and please let me know if anything I could help. Have a lovely day. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 11:23, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Moved draft

Dear Cassiopeia,

Thank you for your edits on Draft:China_Illustrata. It was placed there by @Bkissin:, moved from a sandbox page of a student. This student is working in this course of University Maastricht, Netherlands. All the work of the students is carefully checked by their university-teachers, and by User:Romaine and me, before being published in the main namespace. I would like to suggest to put the draft back on the sandbox page. And I would really appreciate if you could make remarks on it on the Talk page. Many greetings, --Dick Bos (talk) 14:14, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@NoémieH, Dick Bos, and Bkissin:. Greetings!. Hi Bos, thank you for informing me regarding the above. There are 3 ways to do this. (1) NoemieH could work on the article in the current page. Draft page would stay in Wikipedia for 6 months before it is deleted it it no submission is made. (2) NoemieH could copy the text and paste it into the sandbox and request the draft copy to be deleted by inserting {{Db-g7}}as currently the has only 1 author (HoemiedH). (3) If "move" is the method to chose, than I need HoemieH to request it him/herself. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 15:26, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
Hi Cassiopeia. I completely fail to understand this. Without consent of the (new) user NoémieH, a page in her user namespace is moved to the Draft namespace. And now she has to make a request, as a complete newbie, that I don't even understand. Would it not be much easier if @Bkissin: would undo his/her unwanted action? Looking forward to your answer, --Dick Bos (talk) 20:06, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
There is no need to bring consent into this discussion, first of all. Second of all, the editor in question submitted their sandbox for review as an article. The preferred location for draft articles is in the draft namespace. In order for this to be avoided in the future, just save the draft in the sandbox for review by Maastricht University faculty. Once they have given the OK for the article to be submitted, then it can be moved to the draftspace. Bkissin (talk) 20:33, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
@NoémieH, Dick Bos, and Bkissin:, Hi Bos, The page was moved to draft space without the consent of the HoemieH by Bkissin is a different reason of what I need HoemiedhH request to move back to sandbox. The reason is that the performer is subject to answer why the move is made. Here we have other editor (you) request me to do something on behalf of other editor (NoemidH) without a reason which is deemed absolutely needed (we revert blatant vandalized edit / personal attack / move main space article to draft when the page need further development and etc.) The page in draft space at the moment could still be edited by any editors and in that sense it could be reviewed by you, Bkissin (by Masstricht U). If the edit made by Bkissin is reverted it would reverted the 1st submission and subsequent declined of the submission (along with the comments) edits made that is not recommended. My understanding is that China Illustrata is notable subject of meeting Wikipedia's notability policies and guidelines. As long as the article is expand further and supported by significant coverage (multiple ofindependent reliable sources, then it could be resubmitted for patroller to review. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 02:46, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
@NoémieH, Dick Bos, and Bkissin: (and Cassiopeia), there seems to be some substantial confusion here. Perhaps I can help clear this up: I've had experience reviewing new submissions for about 11 years now as an administrator, and I have worked with educational projects at WP ever since they were first conceived, The internal mechanisms by which educational projects develop material is their own concern, but once material is placed in wikipedia, it is free for the community to evaluate and use. This applies to sandboxes as well as drafts or articles, though it is considered courteous to ask first if the material in a sandbox is currently being worked on. However, as I understand it, the material was submitted for community review while still in a sandbox. This is permissible, but it is our normal practice to move it to draft space and review it from there. In a sandbox no one else is likely to see it, in draft space, the community can help.
I've read the article in its current form, and I see no reason not to move it to article space. It's a perfectly adequate though still improvable WP article; the standard for moving to mainspace is that the article is unlikely to be removed by an AfD discussion, and I consider that to be the case. Therefore, I have resubmitted it, and I have moved it to mainspace. It can and should be worked on further there. Once a draft is good enough for main space, there is no reson to keep it in draft for further improvements.
No educational project has full control of the material unless they work on it outside of WP. (Many such projects, therefore, develop the material off line, and only add it when approved.) If there needs to be further discussion about how this project wishes to work, it can be done with whoever in wiki.edu is working with the course--I will be glad to help if asked. DGG ( talk ) 05:22, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
@NoémieH, Dick Bos, Bkissin, and DGG: Greetings and thank you DGG for further explanation which I have missed. NoemieH, the article has come along nicely since I last reviewed. Good to see the article has been reviewed by DGG and it is in the mainspace now. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 07:11, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
Right. Cassiopeia, I realize I had not made it clear that the problems which you saw were real, and had the article not been improved since that point I might not have accepted it. We need AfC so much for removing spam, that we need to remember that another purpose of AfC is to get get articles improved so they will be acceptable ,and it succeeded here. So much of the work at AfC is negative that a positive result puts me in a better mood about the project. You can't see it, but I'm smiling, that with the collective effort, everything worked out right. DGG ( talk ) 07:52, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
DGG Same here. Cheer. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 00:10, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Deleted article/page Floris Visser

Hello Cassiopeia, I just got back to my office and to my great and unpleasant surprise I see that you have deleted my page on Floris Visser which just got excepted yesterday on to wikipedia, after proper consultation with @Bkissin:. Might I ask why you went ahead so rapidly without even having the courtesy explaining yourself any further, and without giving me or others the change to prove differently or at least to save the page for further editing? Your actions feel very rushed and quite aggressive, and you clearly missed out on my contact and interaction with a fellow editor/user Bkissin. As said before, I don't have any COI, nor was your statement of any copyright issue correct as explained. The copyright claim by Alferink Management on the biography of the subject doesn't exist as I explained before, and as was excepted by @Bkissin:. And besides: it was a completely new article, written by me, not copied directly from any source. Of course facts and figures will resemble, but that is hopefully the case in any biography if the sources and references are valid and properly checked. Looking forward to learn your motives. Best, Giovannihofmann. Giovannihofmann (talk) 17:42, 3 June 2018 (UTC) Giovannihofmann (talk) 17:34, 3 June 2018 (UTC)


"Ps. as an example, even if you still would have had questions about certain copyright issues, before deleting you could have requested for instance for a copyright permission through one of our established procedures, as it states in the wikipedia copyright guidelines." Best, Giovannihofmann. Giovannihofmann (talk) 20:38, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

@Giovannihofmann, Bkissin, and DGG: Hi Giovanni, Greetings to you. Understand that you are upset as you created page has been deleted (Floris Visser) so quickly. Wikipedia considers copyvio as a serious matter as it entails legal implications. Under Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, articles that infringe copyvio would be nominated for speedy deletion. Upon checking there are 3 articles involved which your article seemed to copy from, respectively 85%, 33% and 33% respectively of your article content. I have only reported the 85% article. I could not read the article now as it is deleted by DGG (admin). You have contested this nomination and sought help on four different talk pages (Floris Visser talk page, Article for Creation Help Desk, Bkissin's talk page and my talk page), for such I will move this conversation and the links to your talk page for consolidating all the "talks" in one page for DGG to assess and evaluate the validity the copyvio deletion. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 04:10, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
I'm working on this--response later today or tomorrow. DGG ( talk ) 19:20, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
DGG Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 00:10, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Upper middle class

Please take a closer look. It was vandalism. Diff: [10] --Galanthro (talk) 00:40, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Galanthro is correct - the previous user was who caused the disruption; Galanthro reverted it back ;-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 00:42, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
@Galanthro and Oshwah: Hi Galanthro, Thanks for informing. It was a edit conflict. I was trying to revert the discruptive edit at the same time as you, and yours went through first which caused the wrong revert. I have removed the tag from your talk page. Osh acted much quicker than I and corrected the mistake. Thank you Osh and apologies to Galantrhro. Cheers. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 00:49, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
No worries; it happens all the time ;-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 00:50, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Short description

Hi! Thank you for reviewing my Betsy Levy Paluck page. Two quick questions. 1) You deleted the short description for Paluck. Did I do it incorrectly? I just learned how to do that, so if I used that incorrectly I would like to know so I can do it properly in the future. 2), since I have you here :) , can you tell me how to make a redirect. Paluck is sometimes called Betsy Paluck in newspaper articles, but currently Wikipedia only recognizes Betsy Levy Paluck since I based the page on a link from an award she won listed on another page. Thank you!SJTatsu (talk) 06:20, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi SJTatsu Greetings to you. I added {{Authority control}} but I didnt remember I removed anything and not sure it was because what I added and the short dis was cancelled out (the hist indicated it was deleted from my edit thought). I have not reviewed the article yet as I was trying to see how many article Paluck has written that was cited by others. As for the redirect, since Betsy Paluck is common use instead the full name, you could just move the title to "Betsy Paluck" and added the full name in bracket in the lead /introduction section. By the way, for the External link section, just do with only one and remove the rest. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 06:47, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Changes to the Alain Gresh Page

Hello, Changes were a direct translation of exerpts from french page, in an attempt to give more balance to the presentation of Alain Gresh, only referred to positively in the article with no mention of more controversial aspects of the character. The french article however does cite its source and I understand changes to articles need to be made rigorously, I will keep it in mind next time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.52.161.175 (talk) 13:03, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi 193.52.161.175 Good day. All content added need to support by independent, reliable source such as source from newspaper and major publications. Please visit WP:HOWCITE on how to insert inline citation and open the templates Template:Cite book for book, Template:Cite news for newspaper and Template:Cite web for cite form internet. Happy editing and let me know if I can help anything else. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 13:14, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Help Edit an Article -Draft:DJ Quest GH

I am having issues with references on this new article I created. Can you help me with it?

Check: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:DJ_Quest_GH Shammahamoah (talk) 13:05, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi Shammahamoah, Good day. Your draft article Draft:DJ Quest GH was rejected on the ground of the subject did not meet the entertainer notability. See the reviewer comment here - [11]. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 13:27, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Guam at the 2018 Summer Youth Olympics

Actually I don't know how to add citation for participation. I thought if the page is created someone would help improve it.. Flydon Melrick Picardo (talk) 11:54, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Flydon Melrick Picardo Good day. For an article to be published on the Wikipedia mainspace, the subject of the article need to meet the notability requirement, which the content is directly supported by independent, reliable source, such as source from major newspaper) with significant coverage. A draft page would have the same access as the page in the mainspace, where by any editor could edit/help to improve the content; however, a page doesnt satisfy the above requirements cant be merited a page in mainspace. You article does not include any source and if you cant find any, that means it does not deserved to be publish in Wikipedia mainspace and it could redirect to 2018 Summer Youth Olympics. On your talk page, there is a "Welcome" message. Please click on "how to write your first article" and it will led you to how to cite a source or your could go to WP:Referencing for beginners for the info. Let me know if anything else I could help. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 12:12, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Your contributions to Malév Flight 240

Hiya,perhaps you have been mistaken. If you would like to improve on the citations and references contributed between `Revision as of 20:52, 18 April 2018` and `Revision as of 19:35, 6 June 2018` the Malév Flight 240 article, please do not hesitate to do so. Thanks126.161.133.77 (talk) 17:24, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi 126.161.133.77, Greetings to you. I am not mistaken as I was not trying to improve/edit the page. I reverted your edits because they were not supported by inline citation. You could add back the content back but the source (inline citation) need to be reliable, independent source such as from newspaper. I also removed the unsourced "fatalities content". Let me know if anything I can help. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 17:32, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, the documentaries were broadcasted (published?) on television. No further wikipedia for me for now. Bye126.161.133.77 (talk) 17:38, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

See your sandbox

Finally got around to those edits. Tell me what you think, and don't be afraid to revise my edits! Swarm ♠ 03:57, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi Swarm, Good day and thank you very much for checking and reword the info. Truly appreciate it. Cheers! CASSIOPEIA(talk) 04:56, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi, I saw your request in Teahouse about a template you are working on. You said COI there, but the one in your sandbox seems to be about copyvio. I'm not an extreme expert on templates, but I often seem to be the Teahouse point person for template questions. Let me know if I can help.
Regarding the copyvio template, it seems to me like it's trying to compress too many ideas into a short space.
  1. Wikipedia content is covered by copyright. The copyright belongs to the person who contributed the material.
  2. Wikipedia content is licensed under a Creative Commons license that allows anyone to use it, provided they meet certain conditions.
  3. Those conditions include attribution, which means providing credit to the original contributor, and "share-alike", which means that you agree to make any changes you've made available under the same terms.
I realize that this seems like a lot of words, but anything less than this is liable to lead the reader into misunderstanding. These conditions are easy to follow within Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects, but they imply some non-obvious things when something is copied off wiki. — jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 06:26, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi jmcgnh, good day and thanks for reaching out. I just found out 20 mins ago that the is a similar template already exist Template:Uw-c&pmove even thought it is not specific for moving from draft to main space. What I was seek help on was is the "wikicode' written correctly? I am not technicall and have go through a little on the template "how to guide - like define the parameters, parse functions and the etc" but find it a little difficult to understand a time. However, I would like to learn as I would like to create templates and well as understand the basic underlining wikicodes. Could you guide/advice me where to start (would be info/guides within Wikipedia/Media page or any website on this topics) so I may learn step by step approach to understand the basic luggage/writing template? Thanks in advance. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 07:32, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
I was guessing that copy-paste moves had something to do with your intent. The most common response to copy-paste moves, though, is to supply the missing attribution, as best we can, rather than to delete the plundered text. Admins have the additional choices of rev-del and histmerge where something heavier duty is required.
As for you draft template, I suggest moving your sandbox to a different subpage of your user space using the name you are proposing to use for the template. Then add a /doc subpage for the template's documentation. By following the conventions, you get a very nice integration of source code and documentation, one that will work both in your userspace as well as in template space. Most of this is well explained at Template:Documentation.
The other thing you might want to crib from the source of Template:Uw-c&pmove is parameter handling. Many templates treat their parameters as optional and continue to work seamlessly if parameters are omitted. Judicious use of #if directives, 'noinclude' tags, and the safesubst: directive allow you to implement conditional coding in the template. I have no objection to copying code from working examples, even if you are not sure you understand every single implication of what you are copying - you still need to test the result under varying conditions to make sure you've plugged the most likely bugs. I see you've already got the triple brace parameter substitution in hand. — jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 21:38, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi jmcgnh, thank you for the info and advice above. Appreciate it. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 13:07, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Tech News: 2018-24

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

  • In the Wikipedia app for Android or iOS users can create reading lists. The reading lists can be seen on different devices if you are logged in to your account. There is now a browser extension so you can add pages to your reading list from a web browser. At the moment it works with Firefox and Chrome. [12]
  • Advanced item There is a new version of Pywikibot. Pywikibot is a tool to automate tasks on MediaWiki wikis. [13]

Problems

  • The MonoBook skin was changed to make it work better for mobile users. This caused some problems. The change was rolled back to fix them. The new version is now back on the wikis. MonoBook users can opt out from the new responsive design. [14]

Changes later this week

  • Recurrent item The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 12 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 13 June. It will be on all wikis from 14 June (calendar).

Meetings

  • You can join the Readers Web team IRC office hour. There you can discuss tools to contribute on the mobile web for the existing MediaWiki skins. The meeting will be on 18 June at 16:00 (UTC). See how to join.
  • Recurrent item You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on 12 June at 18:30 (UTC). See how to join.
  • Recurrent item Advanced item You can join the technical advice meeting on IRC. During the meeting, volunteer developers can ask for advice. The meeting will be on 13 June at 15:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

21:55, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

KTSE

You've noted that Twitter is not a reliable source, and I'm not sure if you're familiar with the rollout for these five Kanye-produced albums. Most news has been announced through Twitter, artists are allowed to make official statements through the platform, and West himself has been quoted often. Nice4What (talk) 01:09, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi Nice4What, Greetings to you. This is Wikipedia page and content added into Wikipedia needs to adhere to Wikipedia guidelines and policies which means content needs to directly support by independent, reliable source (independent secondary source) As how Kanye-produced albums is rolled out or what method it uses to market the album or via which ever channel it choose has nothing to do with Wikipedia. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 01:17, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
I just wanted to let you know how it'd been done the past month since 3 albums have already been released and we're now onto the fourth, the upcoming Nas album. Nice4What (talk) 01:18, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi Nice4What As long as content added follows Wikipedia guidelines and policies, they are all welcome. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 01:20, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Moving Rajneesh to Osho

Hi,

I request you to consider moving Rajneesh page to simple osho.

There are already many redirections with the title osho, osho(guru), Osho rajneesh.

He chose his name osho in the end of his life. http://www.osho.com/pdf/Osho_Name_Change_Information.pdf

Accesscrawl (talk) 17:06, 10 June 2018 (UTC) Accesscrawl (talk) 17:06, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi Accesscrawl Greeting to you. Osho has currently redirect to Rajneesh page. Page name is as per WP:COMMONNAMES. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 23:28, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Did you check the link i sent?

It is suppose to be other way round. Rajneesh to Osho. Accesscrawl (talk) 02:00, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Accesscrawl Hi, If Osho is the common name for Rajneesh, then starting on the article talk page and seek consensus of interest editors to change the article name from Rajneesh to Osho as I am not familiar with and little knowledge of Indian mystical leader to gauge if Osho or Rajneesh would be the common name. Should it is the common name than it should not be a problem to change the article name, example such as US rapper Eminem is the common name which most people associate with instead of his real name Marshall Bruce Mathers III or NBA basketball player Magic Johnson for Earvin Johnson Jr or CM Punk for Phillip Jack Brooks. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 07:01, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
Can you please guide me on opening a discussion about that? I'm new to it. Accesscrawl (talk) 07:22, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
Also CASSIOPEIA,
the name was changed before once, but it was reverted. Please guide me through the process. It would be appreciated. There is already a move log
{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MovePage/Rajneesh]
Accesscrawl (talk) 07:58, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi Accesscrawl, Since this page has requested title change/move a few times for it might be considered controversial. It would be better to request the move here - see WP:RM#CM. You could request the move by placing the "4.1 Requesting a single page move" (pls indicate the existing page name and requested title name and reasons) code at the bottom the page article talk page. Once the code is placed, a message will be placed at the article page and another message will be placed at the article talk page. Interest editors will comment on the move and an uninvolved editor or admin will close the request based on the discussion. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 11:01, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
HI, I already opened an discussion on the Talk page. I just saw your message now. Thank you for the help. Accesscrawl (talk) 11:08, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
I've Created the data. I dont understand where do i paste it. {{subst:requested move|Osho|reason=There were two closures already to this discussion, which you can see in the Archives. However, both the closures were desperate and by an non-admin. Osho is the most common name for Rajneesh. It should not be a problem to change the article name, example such as Indian poet, lyricist and film director Gulzar is the common name which most people associate with instead of his real name Sampooran Singh Kalra or NBA basketball player Magic Johnson for Earvin Johnson Jr or CM Punk for Phillip Jack Brooks or Nasty (musician) for Avisek Baniya}Accesscrawl (talk) 11:16, 11 June 2018 (UTC)


Accesscrawl. Correction of the above. Paste it on the article talk page (you have done it already but without the code message). Do note you need to support your reason " Osho is the common name" by including search engine results, please prioritize searches limited to reliable sources (e.g. books, news, scholarly papers) over other web results instead just stating your opinion only. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 11:31, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi CASSIOPEIA, I've mentioned news articles as a references on the talk page. I think they'll work as support for the move. Accesscrawl (talk) 02:27, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi Accesscrawl Let's the discussion run for at least a week. Please note to add extra ":" when you reply a message. ":" is wikicode for indent. Please see Help:Wikitext for most frequent use wikicode/text. Cheers. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 02:34, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Museums Association wiki page

I tried to make changes to the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museums_Association as there was information that was out of date or no longer relevant on it. However, the edits were not allowed through. Patrick Steel 12.06.2018 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.111.75.114 (talk) 16:15, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi 82.111.75.114 / Patrick , Good day and thank you for the above message. Your edit was reverted because you have removed the sourced content / removing of the source without any explanation. If the content no longer valid or need an update, you are welcome to change / add the content as long as the content is supported by independent reliable source (means secondary sources such as from newspaper, journals, publications) - see WP:RS. Organisations' brochures, press releases, internal communication/meeting minutes/, interviews , official website, user generated content are not acceptable. I have sent you a welcome message at your talk page, there are links and do read them for there are a lot of useful info on editing topics Wikipedia. Do drop by again, if you need further assistance/clarification. Have a wonderful day. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 23:26, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

User:ClueBot NG

Slightly confused at your report on Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism re: User:ClueBot NG. How are the edits vandalism?--Cahk (talk) 11:12, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi Cahk, Apologizes, Using HG and my courser pointed to wrong line - was meant for user Poomuncher123 - the user has been blocked btw. Apologies again and thank you for informing. Thanks CASSIOPEIA(talk) 11:19, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Whack!

You've been whacked with a wet trout.

Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly.
This deserves a good slap. Mz7 (talk) 17:21, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi Mz7 I do deserve it. Do really want to say sorry to ClueBot Ng but not sure the software robot has the sense that it has been offended or has programed with a "forgive me act" message . Cheers!. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 23:24, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

MMA Fighters Weight Range

What the reason of Weight Class Range on infobox? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Benavidez Rather label the Max Weight for that Class instead of the range. Colton Meltzer (talk) 06:42, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi Colton Meltzer, Good day. Please see WP:MMA/MOS (open the boxes please). Some fighters have competed not only in one specific combat sport but two or multiple disciplines such as Holly Holm who have competed in Boxing and MMA, Mackenzie Dern and Fabrício Werdum in MMA and Jui-Jitsu or Mark Hunt and Alistair Overeem in MMA and kickboxing and etc. Sometimes, diff combat sport have diff weight classes and even the weight classes name are the same. And if a promoter would like to introduce their own weight classes, nothing prevents them from doing so as long as the fights are fought under the organisation and do not need to adhere to "association/federation/unification rules" of other country such as USA. To specify the weight range and sport specific weight range (if known) would be beneficial for record keeping and correctness of the article. Cheers and have a lovely day. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 07:18, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
Rather confused, i rather just put the MAX Weight Limit of that weight class...like heavyweight (265lbs).Colton Meltzer (talk) 21:31, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi Colton Meltzer, Good day. Yes, it is confusing as there are so many range weight classes. If you look at professional boxing - see here Professional boxing, different weight classes added through since 1884 and with different weight classes name from different sanction bodies, for such, Wikipedia has defined the weight classes of it own to consolidate the confusion - see here - MOS:BOXING/WEIGHT. As for another example Wrestling here - amateur Wrestling weight classes vs Professional wrestling weight classes where different promoters in different countries have different weight classes. We could go on to see this type of weight classes differences in other combat sport, such as MMA, jiu-jitsu, karate, sumbo and etc.
Since this is Wikipedia, we follow what Wikipedia WikiProject of that particular sport guidelines. You have edited on MMA fighters' articles in Wikipedia - do follow WP:MMA guidelines. Please note that some combat sports define weight classes by their upper limit; however in MMA WikiProject guidelines require the input of "weight ranges" - see below. To know the MMA fighters' weight divisions they currently in, please see - List of current UFC fighters, List of current Bellator fighters, List of current Invicta FC fighters, List of current ONE fighters, List of current PFL fighters, List of current Rizin FF fighters and List of current Road FC fighters. (do note some fighters fight on 2 weight classes - such as Holly Holm, Daniel Cormier and etc). Cheers. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 00:47, 14 June 2018 (UTC)


MMA weight classes in Ib
Atomweight Strawweight Flyweight Bantamweight Featherweight Lightweight Welterweight Middleweight Light heavyweight Heavyweight
up to 115 Ib 105–115 Ib 115–125 Ib 125–135 Ib 135–145 Ib 145–155 Ib 155–170 Ib 170–185Ib 185–205 Ib 205–265 Ib
This weight range maybe unnecessary.. I think better to have only max weight of the class and If users want to know more about the weight class. They can press the link for more details. 04:05, 14 June 2018 (UTC)Colton Meltzer (talk)
Hi Colton Meltzer, This is the MMA WikiProject guidelines and were made such by the consensus of the editors prior my time. Any changes need to go through discussion on MMA talk page, it is not for you or I to decide individually. Have a lovely day. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 04:10, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

AfD at Nasir (album)

If it happens to come up again, note that the AfD notice at Nasir (album) was removed by ????, and you and I both tried to restore it at the same time. Therefore the system thinks that you reverted my edit. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 00:02, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi Doomsdayer520, Good day. I restored to the further version. No message has sent to your talk page. Thank you for assistance. Cheers. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 00:07, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
@User:doomsdayer520: I didn't remove the AfD notice, so you can remove that 'note' about me. Might want to check the History again. Ninjinian (talk) 00:13, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
@User:Ninjinian. The history got pretty messed up as many people were editing the article at the same time, as the system thought I did something that I didn't do as well. No harm no foul. Sorry Cassiopeia for cluttering up your page. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 00:16, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi doomsdayer520 - No problem doomdayer520. Cheers CASSIOPEIA(talk) 00:29, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi Ninjinian, Good day. Please note that user generated content such as facebook, twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, IMBD and etc are considered unreliable sources. For such please refrain to add them in the article - see here [17]. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 00:29, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
This is an odd rule considering the tweet has come from the artist themselves? Twitter has been one of the main forms of sourcing for all the West-related albums this year. Ninjinian (talk) 00:41, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
Ninjinian, Precisely "considering the tweet has come from the artist themselves" which make the content not reliable as anyone has a Twitter account (any user generated accounts) could say anything irregardless the content is true or not. And by the way, even the content is true or happened the user, it is not considered independent source - see Wikipedia:But it's true!. Content added to Wikipedia needs to follow and meet Wikipedia guidelines and policies which means the content claimed needs to support by independent (secondary source) and reliable (reputable) sources, such as from major newspaper and reputable journals - see WP:RS and see message title "18:21:42, 24 May 2018 review of submission by Nehme1499 " where I put forward what reliable, independent, primary, secondary and tertiary sources are. For an article merit a page in Wikipedia, it needs to stratify the not only WP:RS but also it needs to be coverage signification (multiple) sources and the subject need to meet the Wikipedia notability guidelines, and if not irregardless, how famous, important a subject is, a page would not be approved in Wikipedia. If the article happened to marked reviewed and placed in the main space, it would be PRODed (propose for deletion) when they are noticed. Let me know if anything else I could help. Have a lovely day. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 01:00, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Why am I getting mma weight class links? Sameem123 (talk) 02:04, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Hey Sameem123, Good day. I am not sure which article edit summary of the above you referred to. However, I think it is the weight range info - WP:MMA/MOS (open the syntex boxes) where they appear in the infobox of the affected articles. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 02:57, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

New mma weight classes

Are mma promotions making new weight classes 165,175,195,225? Sameem123 (talk) 02:05, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Sameem123, First of all, you dont need to start a new message every time if the topics are related of the previous. Just click "edit" next to the message title and stroll down to the bottom and start writing. As for your question, the answer is no. The recent news is that DW is going back evening weight instead of early weight in since many fighters missed weight, due to lack of discipline and professionalism, for the last six months, even fighters have voiced they displease and voting a no and suggest 165 and 175 weight classes to replace 170. Recently, in boxing, they have adopted a few new weight classes, and my view is that new weight classes would eventually introduce, it is matter of when, especially, if ESPN would like to have more shows if they could make more money. Enjoy the hot summer in New Year and take care. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 03:08, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

NPP Backlog Elimination Drive

Hello Cassiopeia, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

We can see the light at the end of the tunnel: there are currently 2900 unreviewed articles, and 4000 unreviewed redirects.

Announcing the Backlog Elimination Drive!

  • As a final push, we have decided to run a backlog elimination drive from the 20th to the 30th of June.
  • Reviewers who review at least 50 articles or redirects will receive a Special Edition NPP Barnstar: Special Edition New Page Patroller's Barnstar. Those who review 100, 250, 500, or 1000 pages will also receive tiered awards: 100 review coin, 250 review coin, 500 review coin, 1000 review certificate.
  • Please do not be hasty, take your time and fully review each page. It is extremely important that we focus on quality reviewing.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. — Insertcleverphrasehere (or here) 06:57, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Beatriz_Roldan_Cuenya

Dear Cassiopeia, thank you for moving my first englisch article from Draft:Beatriz Roldan Cuenya to Beatriz Roldan Cuenya. The Awards and distinctions section didn't cite any sources. Now, I have added one cite to each award. The references 5 to 6 and 8 to 9 are second source. However Reference 7 could be regarded as a first source because it is the self written CV. Now, I have 2 questions. Firstly, should Ref 7 be removed? Secondly, may the note <This section does not cite any sources> be removed? Do you remove the note? Best wishes, Martin Penno~dewiki (talk) 09:34, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi Penno~dewiki, Greetings to you.  Done and thank you for providing the sources. Next time when you create a scholar article, do put {{Authority control}} at the bottom of the page where would links to works of the subject if any are registered since most academics would not have many secondary sources about them. Happy editing. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 09:42, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Tech News: 2018-25

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

Changes later this week

  • There is no new MediaWiki version this week.

Meetings

  • Recurrent item You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on 19 June at 18:30 (UTC). See how to join.
  • Recurrent item Advanced item You can join the technical advice meeting on IRC. During the meeting, volunteer developers can ask for advice. The meeting will be on 20 June at 15:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes

  • Some old web browsers will not be able to read the Wikimedia wikis. This is because they use an insecure way to connect to them. This means that we get less security for everyone else too. This affects about 0.08% of all traffic to the Wikimedia wikis. This affects for example those who read Wikipedia on a PlayStation 3. [19][20]
  • The new filters for edit review tools and interface for watchlists will leave beta. Because there is no new MediaWiki version this week it will happen on 25 June for most wikis. For the rest it will happen in early July. [21][22]
  • Advanced item All wikis that have not already done so will switch to use the Remex parsing library on 5 July. This is to replace Tidy. You can help fix remaining errors. [23]

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

21:47, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

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