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A kitten for you!

Thanks for the kindness!

BoxxyBoy (talk) 18:25, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Michael Phelps

Thank you for providing your third opinion on Michael Phelps. You very adequately summarized my viewpoints that Moxy seemed to be able to understand, and I applaud you for that.

However, there are other key points about my perspective on Michael Phelps that Moxy didn’t quite seem to understand (or at least didn’t acknowledge), many are about the ways in which Phelps is unique among all the other “great” American athletes that have been previously up for debate for inclusion in the article:

• Nearly all other great American athletes that have been the subject of this type of debate had their sports notability resting primarily based on their performance in domestic leagues (Michael Jordan won 6x NBA championships in a US domestic league, Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in a US domestic league, etc etc). The one partial exception would be Tiger Woods, however, the highest-level golf tournaments don’t exactly have a total global reach the way the Olympics and World Cup do; also three of the four major golf tournaments are held in the US.

• However, Phelps’ success comes in the context of a massive global high-stakes contest (the Olympics) where countries from all around the world are competing for those same medals, and not all countries and athletes can get medals every time, it is very very competitive. The Olympics (primarily the Summer Olympics) and the men’s FIFA World Cup are by far the top two sports events in this regard of having countries from all around the world, (every major continent, religion, race, etc) competing with their top-level athletes and not holding anything back. So Michael Jordan, Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson, and Tiger Woods were great in sports where maybe only 300-500 million people in the world were in a community that produced those types of athletes. Michael Phelps was great in a sport and event where 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 billion people in the world are in a community that produces athletes who are vying to be the best swimmer.

• On top of that, the massive lead he has in gold medals. Understand this, the #1 absolute greatest Olympic athletes of all-time not named Michael Phelps have struggled to get 7, 8, 9 Olympic golds. It’s very crowded at that amount on the list. And then Phelps has 23 golds.

• Comparing Phelps to the greatest athletes on global international platforms: i.e. Federer, Usain Bolt, Maradona, Pele, Messi, Sharapova is how this discussion should be framed. NOT his fellow greatest American athletes, because none of them have really represented the US, but more importantly haven’t dominated on a prominent global competition as the sole reason for their notability and success. Again, Tiger Woods is more of a hybrid in terms of domestic and international, but all the others that I’m aware who could realistically be in this conversation only have significant sports-related notability for dominance in sports played in domestic platforms.

      • (As a side note, if Jackie Robinson is brought up in this conversation, it has to be with complete disregard for his racial accomplishments and notability, they are applaudable certainly but his frame of reference becomes completely murky unless we completely disregard the racial accomplishments as if they didn’t exist, this is just about sports accomplishments)

I would kindly ask for you to add an addendum to the relevant talk page discussion with those aforementioned points in mind for the sake of neutrality (since they were not acknowledged by Moxy). I don’t believe it is neutral or proper for Moxy’s lack of acknowledgement of these points to equate to a disregard for them in the context of the discussion. Thank you for your time and efforts. It’s much appreciated 🙏🏼 Mrbeastmodeallday (talk) 21:54, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Hey so I figure you saw but I added my addendum at the post ★Ama TALK CONTRIBS 03:11, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Fair use and non-free content

Hi Amadeus1999. Just for reference, non-free content and fair use aren't really the same thing when it comes to Wikipedia as explained here; so, it's a good idea to try avoid mixing the terms up when discussing non-free content use. The image you asked about at MCQ most likely would be considered to meet the requirements for fair use in the US, but the problem is that it doesn't meet relevant Wikipedia policy. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:05, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

@Marchjuly: Ah right, good catch! I'll try to keep an eye on it in the future. ★Ama TALK CONTRIBS 00:06, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Blanking G12s

Hello, thank you for your work, but unless you are removing copyrighted content and replacing it with a few sentences or something like that, please don't remove all the content like you did here; just let it be deleted. Thank you, Moneytrees🏝️(Talk) 01:26, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

@Moneytrees can you just delete the draft? That's the initial request. – robertsky (talk) 01:46, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
@Moneytrees and Robertsky: Yeah sorry, I'm a little confused haha. I just read WP:CV and it says the same you just did, but at other places (I forget where) it says not to let copyrighted material stick around and to remove it. I suppose that didn't come with the instruction that it's only when it's not the entire article, hence why I blanked it because the entire draft was copyvio, which is also why Robertsky requested deletion of the entire draft. I don't recall removing that template, so apologies if I did. ★Ama TALK CONTRIBS 01:51, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
@Amadeus1999 "but at other places (I forget where) it says not to let copyrighted material stick around and to remove it" that's understandable, to be clear there's a difference between when a copyright violation has been recently added to an article that otherwise does not have copyvio and when the article was created as a copyvio. In the case of the first, you should remove the content instead of G12'ing it, and in the case of the latter, tag it with a G12 if the majority of the article is copyvio. Working in copyright is complicated and you have to be careful, although I definitely appreciate any help in the area. I recommend slowing down and asking questions if you are unsure what to do.
@Robertsky It was a 50/50 decision (the copyvio had been removed but there was nothing left in the article), I ultimately decided not to delete it. In the future I will. Moneytrees🏝️(Talk) 02:25, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
@Moneytrees: Yeah I know it's complicated which is why I appreciate any help. I do my best though! :) ★Ama TALK CONTRIBS 11:57, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Centauro Rent a Car

There is additional text, below the copyvio template you added, that is copied from https://www.sociosfinancieros.es/?p=1277&lang=en. That's why I tagged it for G12 speedy deletion. DanCherek (talk) 13:00, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Oh! You're totally right, seems my WP:COPYPATROL didn't include that. I'll go ahead and revert my edits. ★Ama TALK CONTRIBS 13:02, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
@DanCherek: I had a question you may know the answer to. If you're nominating an article for CSD per G12, do you still include a revdel request or are the revisions deleted when the article is deleted? Thanks for your help. ★Ama TALK CONTRIBS 13:09, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
Nope, you don't need to add a revdel request because the entire page will be deleted. Hypothetically if the page was ever undeleted in the future, the revisions would be restored, but admins will generally decline requests to restore pages that have been deleted for copyvio. DanCherek (talk) 13:11, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
Ah gotcha. Thanks! ★Ama TALK CONTRIBS 13:14, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

A question

I am genuinely curious: how did you find ANI? It's always a little suspicious when a brand-new user files an ANI report, but you could have just been a lurker. I myself lurked on ANI for a while, but didn't file a complaint until about a month after I joined [1]. (I joined on September 15, 2021.) Minkai (boop that talk button!-contribs-ANI Hall of Fame) 16:16, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

I just looked everything up lol. Logs don't really show this I realize, but the first two days or so that I was on WP I pretty much spent the entire day exclusively browsing through templates, links, categories, learning shortcuts and shorthand names, etc.
It's always very fascinating how eager people are to jump on bandwagons that accuse others despite themselves having literally no involvement or evidence for it at all. Not saying you or anyone in particular did that but just as a general observation it definitely holds up. ★Ama TALK CONTRIBS 16:35, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
IKR? In the eyes of Wikipedians, newcomers are either NOTHERE, CIR, or sockpuppets. This community needs to be more newcomer-friendly, which is why I patrol recent changes welcoming new users. Minkai (boop that talk button!-contribs-ANI Hall of Fame) 16:57, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
Yeah oh well, it is what it is hah. ★Ama TALK CONTRIBS 17:37, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
In the eyes of Wikipedians, newcomers are either NOTHERE, CIR, or sockpuppets. I guess you both may have forgotten about WP:AGF and WP:BITE, which I believe many experienced editors are working on when dealing with new editors. – robertsky (talk) 06:53, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
@Robertsky: I don't think we forgot about anything. Just because WP:AGF and WP:BITE exist, doesn't mean people actually act according to it. It's not even just myself either, I see it happening to newer users all the time. Of course, it's not directed at everyone, some people do assume good faith and are nice in communication but certainly not everyone, though you also can't expect that, naturally. Amadeus22 🙋 🔔 13:58, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

CWW

If you see a CopyPatrol report where someone is copying within Wikipedia without providing proper attribution, that is a licensing violation and needs to be fixed – please repair the attribution per WP:RIA and then notify them of the attribution requirements using {{uw-copying}} or a handwritten message. DanCherek (talk) 20:32, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

@DanCherek: Hey, thanks for letting me know. Is there any specific report or case where this happened and I didn't? Amadeus22 🙋 🔔 01:32, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Oh, I had noticed this report in which text had been copied from Kulhar. DanCherek (talk) 01:37, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
@DanCherek: Oh lol I'll be honest, I had no idea turkcewiki.org is a Wikimedia project. I also did forget the Attribution part of the CC licensing used on most wikis. Thanks for the heads-up. Amadeus22 🙋 🔔 01:42, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
No problem. turkcewiki is a mirror of the English Wikipedia. DanCherek (talk) 01:51, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – May 2022

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:33, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

question about impartiality and editing

Hi Amadeus1999,

I am reaching out because while I admire wikipedia greatly and support it I'm not a super-user and I'd like to ask you to look at the way an editor, who you interacted with, is operating on a page that has become an important one recently.

The editor is Hobomok and the page is here for Michael Shellenberger who is a candidate for governor of California. I am reaching out to you because you seem to be very experienced, fair minded, and reasonable. I came across your profile after I kind of dove into a wormhole looking at Hobomok's edit history and saw that you interacted with him editing the page for Chris Rufo.

My request is if you'd be kind enough to take a look at the recent edit history of the Michael Shellenberger page--in particular the way Hobomok is operating. Some of his edits don't seem to comport to Wikipedia best practices but, because I have far less experience than Hobomok, maybe it is me who is looking at it wrongly. Hobomok edits/talks from a position of tremendous experience and authority.

I get that the Shellenberger page is going to become much more active right now--because he's a candidate for governor who is seen as only one of maybe two challengers who will reach the final round with Gavin Newsom, who is the incumbent. I also see in the history of the "talk" page Shellenberger himself interacted with Hobomok (!) which, I imagine, is atypical for wikipedia. Hobomok's reaction was fairly aggressive.

I am not paid by anyone related to any of these parties, I am just a citizen trying to understand the positions of some of the lesser known candidates running for governor of California--and the beautiful thing about wikipedia is that as long as there is sufficient intellectual tension in the community of editors--wikipedia can be possibly the best place to learn about anything. I'd very much appreciate it if you'd take a moment and check out what is happening on the Shellenberger page. I know there is a general rule of "don't bite the newcomers" but I hesitate to jump in with edits do worry about getting bitten by a regular editor.

Thank you for your patience (I am learning how to meaningfully contribute) and thank you for your history of thoughtful edits on Wikipedia. --LiRedRose (talk) 19:09, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

@LiRedRose: Hey there, thank you for your message. Let me start out by saying that I am not a super-user or even a 'normal' admin/sysop. I'm sorry if the newsletter section above gave that impression. Regular users can also sign up to receive this newsletter. Having said that, I'll gladly check out your question. Give me some time to look at things and think about it and I'll give my views in a bit. Thanks again! Amadeus22 🙋 🔔 19:13, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
@Amadeus1999thank you so much for your quick reply and I appreciate your attention and patience with a wikipedia neophyte; I am learning a bit at a time LiRedRose (talk) 19:43, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
@LiRedRose: Thanks for your patience, some other things crossed my path that needed more urgent attention. As for the subject you write about, I find it hard to assess. I'm obviously not involved in the conversation/discussion(s) there so it's a lot of Article content and Talk page discussions to consume... I'll need some more time (probably days) to come to a fair and meaningful conclusion for myself. Also, I just wanted to mention, take care not to violate Wikipedia's canvassing guidelines. I don't want to assume bad faith or seem like I do, but it's not seen as considerate or appropriate to reach out to specific editors on the basis that I 'interacted with them before' (read: have negative experiences with) in order to influence another discussion or my point of view about said editor. Again, not saying you did/do this but I wanted to point it out regardless.
Also, I just wanted to note that the IPv6('s) claiming to be Michael Shellenberger may well be a scam/hoax.
@Hobomok: What would you say about the above? I considered it nothing but fair to ping you and notify you of the section as it involves you. I do see some edits that I could reasonably see why some people start to doubt your neutrality and authenticity regarding your edits to the article. Amadeus22 🙋 🔔 20:55, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Thanks @Amadeus1999and thank you for pointing out the canvassing guidelines. I appreciate you involving @Hobomokin this discussion and appreciate the spirit of open communication. Would love to get perspective from Hobomok and appreciate @Amadeus1999 involvement as a participant in this discussion because, as I mentioned, I am new at this. Thank you in advance Hobomok. LiRedRose (talk) 21:51, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Amadeus1999, have we interacted previously? Not trying to be rude, but I don't recall an interaction and I'm having a bit of trouble remembering one.
Related to what @LiRedRose: seems to be accusing here: I'm a bit confused about everything going on here. Before I edited said page, it had a history of Wikipedia:PROMOTION by Wikipedia:Single-purpose accounts (See: Here, here, here, here, and here).
I corrected promotional material and added secondary scholarly sources. Since then, discussions over at the Michael Shellenberger page amongst seasoned editors who understand Wikipedia Conventions around WP: BRD and WP:Consensus have been, for the most part, good-natured (see, for example: here, and they continued today here. You'll see that the user I engage with there and I don't always agree, but we work together toward some sort of consensus). Issues arise when random ip's or brand new accounts enter discussion or attempt to make sweeping changes to sections of the page that have already been edited through Wikipedia:Consensus. For example, when new users attempted to restructure the page or change long-standing text outside of Wikipedia conventions. You'll see that another user and I kept relevant, reliably sourced information on the page to reflect the subject's gubernatorial run from first diff after discussion at talk. There seem to be a lot of new, or recently made, accounts calling into question long-standing past edits and material on this page today, for whatever that's worth, but in my mind, it seems odd that many new accounts want to make changes to this page on the same day given the subject's gubernatorial run and the past history of promotion on the page.--Hobomok (talk) 22:13, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
@Hobomok: I agree and was thinking the same thing. Seems suspicious at worst but let's not assume the worst, especially not with targeting individuals or with blanket statements. It could well be that LiRedRose is actually completely unaffiliated and just interested in growing as an editor and came across the article somehow. And yes, I believe we did have a minor interaction somewhere on Talk:Christopher Rufo but I don't even really recall so surely it wasn't very major. Amadeus22 🙋 🔔 22:17, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
@Amadeus1999: Agreed, and fair enough on the blanket statements--just unsure why/what I'm being accused of, and honestly a bit tired of SPA's hounding me across that page. I'd also like to just say that much of the structure of that page has been created over time with other editors (I'm not going to ping them and bother them to come here--the collaboration is obvious on the talk page's history). Despite what one random ip says, that is not a page that I have edited solely by myself. Thanks for tagging me here so that I'm aware of it!--Hobomok (talk) 22:21, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
@Hobomok: Judging by the phrasing from the new editor, I don't think 'accusation' is quite the right word. The way they phrased it makes it seem like they're just wary and wanted to know more about it and that's why they reached out, I suppose. Agree it's a little iffy though. Amadeus22 🙋 🔔 22:26, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi Amadeus1999,

Hi Amadeus1999,

I have recently made some changer to the Habr Je'lo page which you undid, the changes that have been made have the correct citations and any removal would be improper. Therefore, you should review the changes as necessary but check whether the citations are valid before undoing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthteller12121212 (talk • contribs) 07:21, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

@Truthteller12121212: Thanks for your message. I always check citations and edit summaries before reverting edits. Make sure you use the edit summary to describe your changes briefly. Amadeus22 🙋 🔔 14:37, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

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In regards to Semi-protected edit request on 1 April 2022 for Article: List of countries by number of military and paramilitary personnel

Hi Amadeus1999,

I made some follow-up comments on our talk for the subject mentioned article that would like your input. Please let me know if you would like further clarifications for the edit request.

Thanks in advance,

Freedomv20 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Freedomv20 (talk • contribs) 17:53, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

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