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Combine messages

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Would it be a good idea to combine {{active politician}} and {{BLP}} into one message? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:25, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think they're worth distinguishing, since activepol implies a higher likelihood of misrepresentation, above the already-heightened blp baseline.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  11:45, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but do we need two separate messages on active policitians, or could we adapt the message on {{BLP}} accordingly? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:21, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think displaying 2 separate messages is necessary nor as useful as just displaying 1, mostly b/c of banner blindness. Have 1 msg for regular blp, and another for activepol, and adjust the wording of each if/as needed.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  16:13, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Current

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Currently we display the following for active politicians:

Proposed

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We could combine in the following way:

Comments? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:13, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good - a verbatim merge, with the "If you are a subject of this article" bit at the bottom of both is sensible.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  15:28, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
After implementation:
  1. should |blp=yes|activepol=yes be changed to |activepol=yes, or left alone?
  2. Template:WikiProject Biography/doc needs updating with this and the other changes made
~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  15:39, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. I would still prefer |blp=yes, |blp=other, |blp=activepol or |blp=no. Reducing to one parameter makes it more likely to be updated correctly
  2. {{WikiProject Biography}} no longer does anything with these parameters (it actually identifies them as unknown parameters). Might be better to add to Template:WikiProject banner shell/doc?
— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:37, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Oh good, yes, looking forward to using |blp= for everything.
  2. Yes, remove from {{WP Bio}} doc & add to {{WPBS}} doc.
~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  19:00, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay let's do this ... Also Category:Pages using WikiProject Biography with conflicting living parameter is filling up and I can't keep up, so any help would be appreciated — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:56, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is an easy bot task. No reason to have human beings waste time on something a bot can do. Pages that are in Category:Living people and Category:Pages using WikiProject Biography with conflicting living parameter should have blp=yes, anything else, should have no. Gonnym (talk) 09:38, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like a good idea, assuming the category is up to date. Do you want to make a bot request? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:25, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think there is a higher chance that the category on the main page will be more up to date than the banner on the talk page. I'll ping User:Kanashimi to see if their bot User:Cewbot can handle this as part of their task 12, if not I'll post a request. Gonnym (talk) 10:29, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay sounds good. My only hesitation is that WP:BLP can also apply to a person who is recently deceased, but this is rather vague in the policy. If a bot starts removing {{BLP}} from talk pages on the day of the death, it might cause consternation or at least raise eyebrows — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:39, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you mean synchronizing |blp= with for pages in Category:Pages using WikiProject Biography with conflicting living parameter, the bot may do this operate. Kanashimi (talk) 07:25, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Cleared all 142 from Category:Pages using WikiProject Biography with conflicting living parameter (0). It's good to also confirm that a Category:Deaths by year exists before removing |blp=yes.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  13:40, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have added support for |blp=activepol and |blp=other on the sandbox. Regarding the possible merge of the templates, I think the best route forward might be a TfM for {{Active politician}} with {{BLP}} — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:42, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. I will now ask @Kanashimi to start using blp in all cases going forward — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:08, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 WP Bio/doc updated   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  17:54, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update

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Per the TfD the active politician banner is now combined with the BLP banner — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:36, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Talk pages using standalone BLP templates is empty which means that all these templates are now being called from WPBS. If there is no need to use them standalone then we may as well merge them all into this template — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:20, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominated at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 November 4#Template:BLP — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:30, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

blp and/or living for disambiguation, redirect, etc.

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There are quite a few disambiguation pages, redirects, etc. that apparently fall under WikiProject Biography. Specifically, I'm looking at Category:Biography articles without living parameter (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Biography_articles_without_living_parameter&from=W).

  1. Do they really fall under that project?
  2. Should they have a living/blp parameter?
  3. What's the best way to go about resolving this?

Snowman304|talk 23:50, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I mentioned this discussion on WT:Biography.
What do you mean by "etc."? For categories & templates, |blp= isn't required & should be removed. For drafts, I think it's important to include.
For redirects, I think |blp= is important to maintain. One of the duties of |blp=yes is to populate Category:Noindexed pages per WP:NOINDEX, and should apply to someone's aliases, nicknames, stage names, etc. where reasonable, lest a backdoor index is created.
For DAB pages, I think this should apply to the main/top target of the dab; for example Joey Lawrence (disambiguation) & Sai Kumar, though there are some notable exceptions. I'd like to get WP:Biography's opinion about this too.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  11:40, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By "etc.," I meant "there are a bunch of random cases besides that should probably be talked about, but I don't want to list them all." Maybe there's a page somewhere within the WikiProject that explains when and when not to include it. But the hundreds of articles in the category make it seem like it's not super clear.
Snowman304|talk 16:09, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it would make sense to not require |blp= on redirects or disambiguation pages — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:48, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, as long as |blp=yes is recognized.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  14:15, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay so it will be optional on those pages. |blp=yes will operate as normal, but it will not populate Category:Biography articles without living parameter if missing — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:07, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:32, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Non-standard grades

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It seems like the Wikipedia:Content assessment#Non-standard grades are not implemented except for "NA". Bug or feature? --Mungo fraans ïttrë rumden (talk) 15:03, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is correct. Only the standard grades are implemented — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:36, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

CSS class

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I've noticed that we are using a CSS class assess which is not defined in Module:Banner shell/styles.css. It is defined in Module:WikiProject banner/styles.css but that is not used by this module, so probably not intended. I suggest renaming it and adding the same definition to Module:Banner shell/styles.css. Or we could use a more standard class like mbox-image — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:58, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There should be no need. If a given talk page uses {{WikiProject banner shell}}, it ought to also have one or more WikiProject banners, and so Module:WikiProject banner/styles.css will be loaded, and the rules defined within it will be available elsewhere on the page. For example:
Rules having the .assess selector are applied to this div element
shows as bolded and centred (when the whole page is viewed, but not when previewing this section when editing), because the style sheet defined inside Template:WikiProject Council is being applied. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 13:10, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
99% of them will have project banners in, but we do also support WPBS used standalone. I wonder if that would look different, as the assess class is not loaded? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:29, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I added a background colour, but didn't expect it would affect this module. So I have made it more specific to banners [1]. Will that work? It seems to have made an impact on the spacing too, which I don't understand — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:44, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Importance options for redirects

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It appears that importance options for redirects do not work any more. Only no importance and NA seem to be available. This is not good as many redirects with possibilities (R from subtopic for example) have real importance to projects. Low is the usual case, but higher importance ratings are possible, and where relevant should be displayed. Has someone decided to arbitrarily override the choice of projects? Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 03:00, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see you've found the discussion on Module talk:WikiProject banner so I will reply there — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:55, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Transition code

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Now that Category:Pages using WikiProject banner shell without a project-independent quality rating is almost always empty, I think we can safely remove the transition code that we have been using in this module for the past year or so. Any article without |class= defined will be regarded as unassessed. This will replace the WikiProject Council logo with the unassessed logo along with a corresponding change in wording — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:55, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Major work ongoing in sandbox. Proposed changes:
Are there any other changes which people want to see? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:33, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FM-class

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We need to make the banenr shell support FM-class. Currently on pages such as File talk:Sfearthquake3b.jpg there is no visual indication that the file is rated FM-class (although the categories do work) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:36, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've made a start on this in the sandbox, but it's turning out to be quite complicated and not working properly yet — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:36, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This code is now ready for review/testing. Changes include:
  1. [2] Pass class parameter through the class mask in all cases, not just for articles
  2. [3] Use pagetype instead of the word "article", so we can say "This file has been rated ..."
  3. [4] |class=FM will fall back to File-class if FM category does not exist, and fall back to NA-class if File category does not exist
  4. [5] Hardcoded an exception for FM-class which will not trigger a conflict in ratings (e.g. if PIQA is FM-class but project is File-class)
  5. Support for |blp=other and |blp=activepol (discussed in a separate thread)
One unresolved matter: how should we track files marked as FM-class in a project banner, but not yet identified as FM-class in the banner shell? Perhaps a temporary tracking category for these — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:19, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Changed so that these will now trigger Category:FM-Class articles with conflicting quality ratings for a bot to move the FM rating into the banner shell — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:55, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Deployed — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:08, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Slight issue which I will look into later - Old revision of File talk:Koh Samui Lipa Noi2.jpg. On {{WikiProject Thailand}}, the rating should not be identified as a conflict. On {{WikiProject Islands}}, the rating should fall back to File-class, and should also not produce a conflict warning — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:33, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
{{WikiProject Home Living}} also emits a conflict when a shell class is present @ File talk:Xbox-360-Pro-wController.jpg   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  20:14, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FYI - Issue with the collapsed parameter for WikiProjects in this banner shell

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I tried to use "collapsed=yes" to collapse some WikiProject notices on a talk page but I couldn't get that to work, the WikiProject banners did not collapse. What did work was "collapsed=y" which is contrary to the instructions on this Template page. - Shearonink (talk) 16:29, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

|collapsed=yes works for me. Please give an example of where it's not working? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Example of it working — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So weird...I *swear*, I tried to use the =yes on Talk:Tom Simpson and I couldn't get it to work... All I can think of is maybe a stray space or letter snuck in and I missed it. Yes I see that =yes works. Thanks for the reply. Just another glitch in the matrix... - Shearonink (talk) 02:09, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Missing rating icon at the new MOS talk namespace

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At MOS talk:THEY, WPBS implements a non-existent File:Na. (Not sure what needs changing, my inactivity has rendered me too far removed from this template's backend.) Thanks! —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 22:10, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reporting. That is pretty bad ... Are MOS and MOS talk actually namespaces? I've never heard of them before. I assumed these redirects were in article space — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 23:10, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@MSGJ: Take a look at Special:WhatLinksHere/File:Na please. Looks like many implementations with class=NA are showing this same non-existent file. —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 23:14, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. 88 in total. I will have time to look at this on Sunday — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 23:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It was, until being added as namespace this September to prevent conflict with Mooré Wikipedia (language code mos): m:Tech/News/2024/37. —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 23:32, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 215#Tech News: 2024-37, Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 215#Cleaning up MOS: links, Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 215#Tech News: 2024-41. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:03, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the links. Amazing that all this happened on a page that I watch without me being aware! — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:52, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Resolved issue and also added new icon for TimedText files — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:34, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was surprised to find that using |class=NA had any effect when using it in mainspace. This is not intentional, and does not happen in project banners. So I need to explore why this is happening. Thanks to CX Zoom for clearing those out — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:21, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tracking dead/alive people

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Gonnym proposed tracking talk pages identified as living of people who are actually dead, or talk pages identified as non-living when they are actually alive. I think the idea is:

  1. Look for Category:Living people and if |blp=no or |blp=other then track. (What about if |blp= is missing or blank?)
  2. Look for a category like Category:1947 deaths and if |blp=yes or |blp=activepol then track.

— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:35, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent idea. If |blp= is missing or blank, then Category:Biography articles without living parameter should be populated as normal.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  13:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let's sort out all the redundant and conflicting living parameter first, then the coding will become much simpler — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do we have any article categories that can detect active politicians? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:33, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"activepol" parameter error, not populating category

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My watchlist has recently shown AWB runs by Tom.Reding, in some cases to the tune of a thousand edits per hour, incorporating deprecated instances of "activepol" into the WPBS. I assume this is in response to this discussion. While attempting to clean up the many instances of talk pages tagged as an active politician when the subject really isn't active, I dug deeper and discovered that Category:Active politicians isn't being populated, even though its description says it should be. Currently, the only contents in that category are articles in which the category was manually added. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 20:33, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Example   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  20:39, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good find. There are currently only 30 pages in Category:Active politicians (20,890) (!), which means that the module isn't populating the category via |activepol=yes nor |blp=activepol. Looking at the categories before and after my example confirms this. Fortunately, Category:Noindexed pages is being applied correctly.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  20:53, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Active politicians (20,890) is repopulating now with no edits to the modules, so this probably had something to do with the TfD tagging of the various blp templates and how that code interacted with the modules.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  11:16, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks to Gonnym who fixed this yesterday on Template:BLP — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:34, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Checks for redundant or conflicting living parameter

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Extensive checks added to Module:Banner shell/sandbox:

  • If |living=yes and |blp=no then tracks as CONFLICT
  • If |living=yes and |blp=other then tracks as CONFLICT
  • If |living=yes and |blp=yes then tracks as REDUNDANT
  • If |living=yes and |blp=activepol then tracks as REDUNDANT
  • If |living=no and |blp=no then tracks as REDUNDANT
  • If |living=no and |blp=other then tracks as REDUNDANT
  • If |living=no and |blp=yes then tracks as CONFLICT
  • If |living=no and |blp=activepol then tracks as CONFLICT

Does that look right? Also removed |blpo= and |activepol= from the list of recognised parameters, so these will end up in Category:Pages using WikiProject banner shell with unknown parameters. Also propose moving:

because these are not dependent on WikiProject Biography. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 23:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Looks good   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  11:16, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
{{WikiProject Biography|activepol=yes}} isn't populating Category:Pages using WikiProject Biography with unknown parameters. I don't know if it did before, though.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  08:54, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's because it's an alias for tf 6. Not sure if that can safely be removed? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:58, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, interesting. Since {{{activepol-importance|}}} doesn't exist, then it's likely that its usage rate is low & removing might not be a big deal. I'll take a look.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  09:23, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I scanned the entirety of Category:Politics and government work group articles (287,068), and found that ~2.2% contain {{WikiProject Biography|activepol=y (~0.1% contain only |activepol=n), and of that 2.2%, 95% contain {{WikiProject Biography|politician-work-group=y, and that there are only ~295 pages which use |activepol=y on its own as a true alias to |politician-work-group= (example), which is only 0.1% of the category total, so I think |activepol= can safely be removed without too much work. I'll go through the full 2.2% and transfer |activepol= to WPBS as needed, and make sure a corresponding |politician-work-group=y exists. Then we can get rid of |activepol= from WPBio, since it would only serve as a source of confusion with WPBS otherwise.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  01:22, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nice analysis. Sounds like a good approach — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:45, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Partly done - all 295 pages using {{WikiProject Biography|activepol=yes}} have been updated (example).   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  14:56, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So can we remove that alias from tf6? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:25, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  15:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, so they are starting to trickle into Category:Pages using WikiProject Biography with unknown parameters — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:18, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

blp=others

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As the template is called {{BLP others}} it seems logical that we should accept |blp=others as well as |blp=other — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The template does not exist anymore in the wild as a standalone so its name is irrelevant. The plural value also doesn't make sense when talking about an individual page. It also adds more unnecessary code. Gonnym (talk) 18:40, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Also, while slightly-slippery-slope-y, |blp=others might entice the use of |blp=activepols.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  23:49, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. I've also seen |blp=pol when an editor removed "active", and someone even tried |blp=inactivepol! — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:43, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More blp banner templates

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The following templates should probably also be migrated into the banner so we don't end up with duplicate blp notices as most of these have (see Talk:Poppy Z. Brite as an example).

Gonnym (talk) 14:31, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I suggest:
~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  15:06, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My initial reaction was that I don't want to touch those things with a barge pole. Secondly if we were to incorporate them into the banner shell, then we should use the blp parameter, e.g. |blp=trans as we are putting in much effort to eliminate other parameters. Thirdly, how would you propose to merge these messages with {{blp}}? They are not very similar. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:28, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
|blp=trans would interfere with |blp=activepol   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  11:08, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
True. We could do comma-separated, e.g. |blp=trans,activepol — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:35, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think |blp=w,activepol, |blp=yes,m, etc. would be intuitive to editors.
Also, |trans=<yes|w|m> & |non-binary=yes are more permanent than |blp=: |blp= will change, but |trans=<yes|w|m> & |non-binary=yes will remain even after they have died. Making separate parameters makes maintenance of |blp= simpler, less prone to errors, and more intuitive.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  15:42, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
would you propose to merge these messages, I didn't say merge, I said migrate to the banner. If these show, then don't show blp. There is absolutely no need to have two giant banners like this. The last section of Template:MOS-TRANS already covers blp=living for example. Gonnym (talk) 08:58, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Alternatively we work on making each banner smaller, and remove some bloat. How would you deal with the trans and activepol combination? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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