Template:Did you know nominations/Stephan Westmann

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:24, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Stephan Westmann

(

)

~~... that German infantryman Stephan Westmann, assaulting a British machine gun on the Western Front, was astonished when the British stopped firing and sent stretcher-bearers to rescue Germans?~~
Source: John K. Rieth, Imperial Germany's Iron Regiment of the First World War (Badgley Publishing, 2017), pp. 103–104

ALTO... that German infantryman Stephan Westmann, assaulting a British machine gun emplacement on the Western Front, was amazed when the British stopped firing and sent stretcher-bearers to rescue Germans?
Source: as above

ALTOa... that Stephan Westmann, assaulting a British machine gun emplacement on the Western Front with a German infantry unit, was amazed when the British stopped firing and sent stretcher-bearers to rescue Germans?
Source: as above
- ALT1:... that Stephan Westmann served in both world wars, in the first for the Germans, in the second for the British?
  Sources: for 1914–1918 war, as above; for 1939–1945 war, Paul Atterbury, "Poacher turned Gamekeeper: from German Infantry to British Medical Officer" in Antiques Roadshow: World War One in 100 Family Treasures (Random House, 2014), pp. 271–273

Reviewed: François Guyet

Created by Moonraker (talk). Self-nominated at 19:31, 13 February 2021 (UTC).

Reviewing, Will complete soon. Darwin Naz (talk) 23:26, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting:
Other problems: - No

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Nominated within five days of article creation. Both hooks are very interesting to me and are sourced. Plagiarism unlikely (see Earwig). However, @Moonraker: you might want to reword the first hook if you're going for it. In your source: 1) Westmann was speaking in "we" (the hook seems to indicate he was going at it alone); and, 2) they were not assaulting a British machine gun but they were ordered to attack and take a brickworks, which were defended by machine guns. Some parts in the article also need referencing (e.g. the part about Marianna Goldschmidt). Darwin Naz

Thanks for the review, Darwin Naz. You are quite right, Marianna Goldschmidt is from a source not referred to at that point, so I have added it. Do you see anything else that needs better referencing? I don’t agree with you when you say “they were not assaulting a British machine gun”. Westmann said “to attack these brickworks”, but we can’t use that word, it would be understood as a place where bricks are made, and the word here is clearly used to mean a massive structure made of bricks with machine-guns on top, a machine-gun emplacement. That is how Westmann “came under machine gunfire so terrific that the losses were so staggering...” I don’t see any suggestion that he was charging machine gun fire alone, that could not lead to British stretcher bearers coming out to rescue “Germans” (plural). But I have reworked it as ALTO, see if that is better. Moonraker (talk) 10:23, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi @Moonraker: The way I see it - based on trench warfare of World War I - the “brickworks” cited in your source could pertain to or was part of a trench, a ditch, or some form of fortification - a facility rather than a machine gun or weaponry (artillery). Fortification or “machine gun emplacement” as you have written could be acceptable. Regarding the charge, would it be better to say "that Stephan Westmann and his German infantry unit(or regiment?) assaulting a British machine gun emplacement…" You can decide what course to take. Just ping me so I can proceed with the approval. Darwin Naz (talk) 11:27, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
Darwin Naz I don’t think we could add that there, as Westmann was describing his personal reaction, but I have worked your idea into ALTOa. Shall we leave it for the volunteer taking this forward to choose which one to use? Moonraker (talk) 11:38, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
Moonraker My thoughts exactly regarding the volunteer's choice. Darwin Naz (talk) 11:43, 17 February 2021 (UTC)