Template:Did you know nominations/Queer advocacy in the Israel–Hamas War
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by SL93 talk 00:35, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
| DYK toolbox |
|---|
Queer advocacy in the Israel–Hamas War
- ... that queer pro-Palestinian protesters faced off against the 2024 Philadelphia Pride drumline?
- ALT1: ... that pro-Palestinian queer groups have been alternatively called "chickens for KFC" or as fighting against pinkwashing? Source: https://www.them.us/story/lgbtq-solidarity-palestine-saed-atshan
- ALT2: ... that Dyke marches during 2024 have called out conflicts in Palestine, Congo, Ethiopia, Haiti, Myanmar, Sudan and Ukraine? Source: https://truthout.org/articles/queer-activists-are-making-bds-a-key-question-of-pride-this-year/
- ALT3: ... that pro-Palestinian queer groups, despite being called "chickens for KFC," have argued that Israel "pinkwashes" the ongoing Israel–Hamas war? Source: https://www.them.us/story/lgbtq-solidarity-palestine-saed-atshan
- ALT4: ... that some pro-Palestinian queer groups claim shared cause between Queer liberation and Palestinian liberation, despite critics arguing hypocrisy due to severe restriction of LGBT rights in Palestine? https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/lgbtq-pride-march-israel-hamas-war-protests-rcna156595
- ALT5: ... that some pro-Palestine queers claim shared cause between Queer liberation and Palestinian liberation, despite restriction of LGBT rights in Palestine? https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/lgbtq-pride-march-israel-hamas-war-protests-rcna156595
- Reviewed:
Created by Bluethricecreamman (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Bluethricecreamman (talk) 05:18, 5 August 2024 (UTC).
- Not a review, but ALT1 is the best hook here, and would be better if it was truncated at "KFC".--Launchballer 21:09, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- I don't agree, it comes off as unduly promoting one side without covering the opposing perspective. Although it is usually not be possible to give all context in a dyk, one should at least attempt not to be one-sided. Part of the problem is that the article never really covers the central reason for the protests. It does cover disputes about the status of LGBT Palestinians but not the overall war/genocide that is generating the protest to begin with. (t · c) buidhe 05:04, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Alright. I put in an excerpt template to the war protest article and used that to populate a background. There might be a better way to include the context of what folks are protesting. Much of the news coverage for queers for palestine remains focused on the spectacle instead of actual purpose and intent, unfortunately, which makes it hard to include motives without going to broader protests. Feel free to suggest/do something different! Bluethricecreamman (talk) 06:17, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Bluethricecreamman: There are several tags on this article. Please resolve them. When you've done that, I will review this, probably tomorrow at the earliest.--Launchballer 14:51, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- What tags? Bluethricecreamman (talk) 14:59, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- The inline tags. I just added two {{clump}} tags and I saw a {{better source needed}} and a {{clarification needed}} tag already in there.--Launchballer 15:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- Oh. Sorry, didn't realize. Changed the Excerpt template to exclude the clarification needed sentence, and removed the ref to the TMZ video. Removed some of the excess citations as well. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 21:38, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
Long enough, new enough. I still think that ALT1 is the best hook (ALT0 does not meet WP:DYKINT and ALT2 is not about the bolded article), however given @Buidhe:'s objection a new hook should probably be proposed. No copyvio found, no QPQ needed. As written, this would deserve {{lead too short}} and I think it should be expanded to summarise the whole article per WP:LEDE. Also, probably not a DYK issue, but this is the first time I'm seeing {{excerpt}} and there's no way it should exist.--Launchballer 08:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Added a longer lede, suggested ALT4 which should answer Buidhe's objections. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 13:39, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- ALT4's cruising for a pruning per WP:DYKTRIM (e.g. by replacing "claim shared cause between Queer liberation and Palestinian liberation, despite critics arguing" with "have been accused of" and ALT3 isn't a complete sentence. What have they argued?--Launchballer 13:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Didn't notice I didn't finish ALT3, added the end, thanks for the catch. Also, I still think ALT0 is fairly WP:DYKINT. There is something dramatic about queer counter-protesters facing off against a queer drumline... it is a fairly weird enough scenario to pique the attention. Agree ALT4 is fairly long, not sure what else to do to shorten it. @Buidhe: was suggesting that there should be more context in the article, not necessarily the DYK, so ALT1 should still be good as well Bluethricecreamman (talk) 13:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- (Not reviewing, but) I agree ALT0 is probably the best one here, it doesn't give as much of the nuance but as something to pique the interest of those who haven't heard of the topic before, it works. Mrfoogles (talk) 17:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not convinced 'protesters protesting' or even "protesters mouthing off" is unusual, and with the benefit of two days, I'm not convinced ALTs 3 and 4 meet WP:NPOV. I won't approve ALT0 personally, though @Mrfoogles: is welcome to overrule me.--Launchballer 14:29, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
- I think that there have been quite a few “protesters protesting” DYKs that have been done in the past, when i do a quick search. I suppose the interesting part is subject to the reviewer tho. (1), (2), (3). I still think ALT1 should also be fine to do if ALT0 isn’t fine. And in general, presenting both sides of it, as either a stupidly hypocritical move, or as a call against pinkwashing, would be the NPOV way of presenting this article on a DYK; removing either side would be POV. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 20:50, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
I've given this some more thought. The other problem with ALT1 is that you have to know what pinkwashing is, and I didn't before. Also, WP:DYKINT's tightened up considerably since 2022, never mind 2004, and other stuff exists isn't a good argument anyway. (And I'm not sure I want to get involved with arguing over NPOV anyway, especially over Israel-Palestine.) I've decided I am going to approve ALT0 after all, on the grounds that queer-on-queer brawls aren't actually that common.--Launchballer 01:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- I think that there have been quite a few “protesters protesting” DYKs that have been done in the past, when i do a quick search. I suppose the interesting part is subject to the reviewer tho. (1), (2), (3). I still think ALT1 should also be fine to do if ALT0 isn’t fine. And in general, presenting both sides of it, as either a stupidly hypocritical move, or as a call against pinkwashing, would be the NPOV way of presenting this article on a DYK; removing either side would be POV. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 20:50, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not convinced 'protesters protesting' or even "protesters mouthing off" is unusual, and with the benefit of two days, I'm not convinced ALTs 3 and 4 meet WP:NPOV. I won't approve ALT0 personally, though @Mrfoogles: is welcome to overrule me.--Launchballer 14:29, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
- (Not reviewing, but) I agree ALT0 is probably the best one here, it doesn't give as much of the nuance but as something to pique the interest of those who haven't heard of the topic before, it works. Mrfoogles (talk) 17:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Didn't notice I didn't finish ALT3, added the end, thanks for the catch. Also, I still think ALT0 is fairly WP:DYKINT. There is something dramatic about queer counter-protesters facing off against a queer drumline... it is a fairly weird enough scenario to pique the attention. Agree ALT4 is fairly long, not sure what else to do to shorten it. @Buidhe: was suggesting that there should be more context in the article, not necessarily the DYK, so ALT1 should still be good as well Bluethricecreamman (talk) 13:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- ALT4's cruising for a pruning per WP:DYKTRIM (e.g. by replacing "claim shared cause between Queer liberation and Palestinian liberation, despite critics arguing" with "have been accused of" and ALT3 isn't a complete sentence. What have they argued?--Launchballer 13:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Added a longer lede, suggested ALT4 which should answer Buidhe's objections. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 13:39, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Oh. Sorry, didn't realize. Changed the Excerpt template to exclude the clarification needed sentence, and removed the ref to the TMZ video. Removed some of the excess citations as well. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 21:38, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- The inline tags. I just added two {{clump}} tags and I saw a {{better source needed}} and a {{clarification needed}} tag already in there.--Launchballer 15:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
