Talk:Zionist as a pejorative

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Discrimination, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Discrimination on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DiscriminationWikipedia:WikiProject DiscriminationTemplate:WikiProject DiscriminationDiscrimination articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Israel Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.

Jewish history Low‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Palestine Low‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

On 17 September 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Zio (pejorative) to Zionist as a pejorative. The result of the discussion was moved.

Semi-protected edit request on 23 July 2024

This edit request to Zio (pejorative) has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change the word Zionist to Jew. It’s what David Duke meant when he coined the term and it’s backed by the references Dimitri Careman (talk) 21:27, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. M.Bitton (talk) 11:30, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Antisemitism

The article suggests that the term is “widely considered antisemitic” only among Zionists and in the British Labour Party. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 11:26, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Although I would agree that the people claiming antisemitism are a small minority, I don't think it would be accurate to change it to "often". "widely considered antisemitic" is favorable writing to those who consider it a pejorative towards all Jewish peoples. It is however, accurate to state that there are influential groups that are saying it is antisemitic. KeebisBored (talk) 03:19, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reworded the lead to match with the article body. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:39, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 17 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. After reviewing the comments and waiting 10 days there appears to be consensus on moving this page to Zionist as a pejorative. After reviewing the sources provided it appears that the move is the correct choice. During discussion it was brought up that the word Zionist as used as a pejorative equates to antisemitism. The word pejorative is defined as "expressing contempt or disapproval.", it is not the same as the words found in category Antisemitic slurs. As also noted this definition can and has change with time as Zionist was not always used as a pejorative within the the core anglosphere nations, this is not always the case outside these communities. If there is any feedback on this or my conclusion please feel free to leave a note on my talk page.

Nettler (1995). Medieval and Modern Perspectives (1 ed.). Routledge. doi:10.4324/9781315077666. ISBN 978-1-134-36682-8.
Sicher, Efraim (2011). "The Image of Israel and Postcolonial Discourse in the Early 21st Century: A View from Britain". Israel Studies. 16 (1): 1–25. doi:10.2979/isr.2011.16.1.1. ISSN 1084-9513.

(closed by non-admin page mover) Dr vulpes (Talk) 02:05, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zio (pejorative) → Zionist as a pejorative – Not in love with my proposed title, but in the past few years there's been increased coverage of "Zio" / "Zionist" as a pejorative term, both as an antisemitic stand in for "Jews" (see the cited RS about David Duke) and the more recent canard especially during the Israel-Hamas war that "Zionist" = supporter of settler-colonialism, apartheid, etc. This article can cover the pejorative uses of Zionist and its permutations.

Example sources: How ‘Zionist’ became a slur on the US left (The Guardian) How the Word “Zionist” Functions in Antisemitic Vocabulary (Journal of Contemporary Antisemitism) Inside Meta, a debate over when the word 'Zionist' is hate speech 'Jewish Supremacy': A Nazi Slur Goes Woke Longhornsg (talk) 21:29, 17 September 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 06:25, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging previous ECP editors to this page @Andrevan:@IvanScrooge98:@NesserWiki:@Bohemian Baltimore:@TornadoLGS:@Uriahheep228:

Support per Longhornsg Andre🚐 21:46, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Hogo-2020 (talk) 06:33, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now as WP:POVTITLE. Criticizing Zionism is not hate speech. "the more recent canard especially during the Israel-Hamas war that "Zionist" equals supporter of settler-colonialism, apartheid, etc." Calling out Israeli apartheid is not a "canard". The Guardian article you cite is mainly about anti-Zionism, including Jewish anti-Zionism.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 00:33, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Deal with what this article is actually about. A pejorative is not hate speech. Per the sources in the article, are David Duke and white supremacists using "Zionist" to criticize the policies of the state of Israel or Israeli apartheid? There are ample RS dealing with the topic, including differentiating between the political use of "Zionist" and the pejorative use as a stand in for "Jew". (eg [1], [2]) The latter is what this article is about. This is not saying that criticizing Zionism (whatever hackneyed definition is used) is hate speech. Longhornsg (talk) 01:23, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We can go into details about this, but effectively you're changing the topic here from "Zio", which seems to always be used as hate speech, to "Zionist as a pejorative", which can sometimes be used for legitimate criticism.

The Guardian piece you linked above says: "But for the student anti-war protests gripping the US, the words “Zionist” and “Zionism” have become a watchword – pejorative and emblematic of the violent state policies driving the war on Gaza." You cannot lump this in with neo-Nazis like David Duke.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 04:36, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Longhornsg. Zionist has become used as a pejorative. Actually, such use dates to the 1980s, and was used by Soviet Russia. For example attacking individuals and organizations that are not necessarily actually Zionist, like Hillel International or Joshua Leifer. Therefore the article scope of "use of Zio as a pejorative" and "use of Zionist as a pejorative" are pretty much the same, this is just a more recent coinage, but I think it's well-founded to have an article on both, since there doesn't seem to be one yet on the more general scope. Neo-Nazism is probably related inasmuch as it deals with the trope of Jewish supremacy or Holocaust inversion. It's an unfortunate fact of today's discourse that those anti-war protests aren't as anti-war as we might wish they would be, since many of them have actually shown they are simply cheering on the violence just on a different side, waving flags of Hezbollah or Hamas or other things. That doesn't mean there aren't also anti-Zionists that are none of the above, but inasmuch as those things do exist, we should write about them. Andre🚐 04:57, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hillel appears Zionist as, on their website, they state "Hillel will not partner with, house, or host organizations, groups, or speakers that as a matter of policy or practice: Deny the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish and democratic state with secure and recognized borders."VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 05:25, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consider this article by Amnesty International, which criticizes Meta's moderation of the word "Zionist" as potentially suppressing criticism of Israel.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 05:25, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have posted a neutral message about this RM at Talk:Anti-Zionism, as I think this RM appears to be expanding the scope of this article to include anti-zionism.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 05:25, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a good faith reading of of this RM. The scope does not include suppressing criticism of Israel (probably one of the most documented topics in this encyclopedia). It's about the word "Zionist" being used as a pejorative -- not hate speech -- for which there is a tremendous amount of coverage extending back decades. Let's deal with the facts as presented, not an imagined meaning. Longhornsg (talk) 22:21, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Amnesty should be attributed POV just like the ADL; and I would suggest you should more widely advertise the RM, since only sharing it to one targeted talk page might be considered WP:CANVASSing. As far as Hillel, Hillel is basically where college students go to a synagogue or a Shabbat dinner on campus, and it is the least religious Jewish campus organization, so targeting Hillel even despite a statement some don't like on their website, would be considered antisemitism by many of the statements released by Jewish groups, politicians, and academics. Andre🚐 05:32, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've added it to Talk:Antisemitism too[3].VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 06:52, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Jewish history, WikiProject Palestine, WikiProject Israel, and WikiProject Discrimination have been notified of this discussion. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 06:25, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.