Talk:Zhang Heng

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Zhang Heng article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Zhang Heng is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on September 25, 2008.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
April 27, 2007	Good article nominee	Listed
June 28, 2008	Featured article candidate	Promoted

Current status: Featured article

China: History High‑importance

	China portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Chinese history (assessed as High-importance).

Biography: Science and Academia

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the science and academia work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

History of Science Mid‑importance

	History of science portal This article is part of the History of Science WikiProject, an attempt to improve and organize the history of science content on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. You can also help with the History of Science Collaboration of the Month.History of ScienceWikipedia:WikiProject History of ScienceTemplate:WikiProject History of Sciencehistory of science articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Philosophy: Philosophers / Eastern Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Associated task forces:
/
	Philosophers
	Eastern philosophy

Technology

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Technology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of technology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TechnologyWikipedia:WikiProject TechnologyTemplate:WikiProject TechnologyTechnology articles

Maps Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Maps, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Maps and Cartography on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MapsWikipedia:WikiProject MapsTemplate:WikiProject MapsMaps articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Astronomy Mid‑importance

	Astronomy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Astronomy, which collaborates on articles related to Astronomy on Wikipedia.AstronomyWikipedia:WikiProject AstronomyTemplate:WikiProject AstronomyAstronomy articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Mathematics Mid‑priority

	Mathematics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mathematics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of mathematics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MathematicsWikipedia:WikiProject MathematicsTemplate:WikiProject Mathematicsmathematics articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-priority on the project's priority scale.

Major Editing

Please revise new article, recently updated. Sometimes1must 16:00, 29 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes i had permission, they require a source cite added and i did that. Sometimes1must 16:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I do not understand what you are doing. Why did you delete a major portion of the article? Why didn't you discuss this in Talk before you deleted a mjor portion of the article? Please explain.
Thanks--Ling.Nut 16:23, 29 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sometimes1must's "article" violated copyright. The new article would not be able to be edited, therefore its invalid. 24.12.8.97 23:02, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I just made some minor edits, additions, and corrections (including the armillary sphere, since he was not the first in China to invent this, but the first to invent the hydraulic-powered one more than a century later). I will contribute more later and use sources of Joseph Needham to beef up this article a bit, since it is nearly a stub at the moment.

--PericlesofAthens 03:17, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

After my latest edits, the article looks much better now, agree? As promised, I also added the reference of Joseph Needham.

--PericlesofAthens 04:40, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Translation Errors

Needham's translation of Ling Xian (靈憲) is in many ways inaccurate. His major mistake is saying that "an-xu" (闇虛) means a lunar eclipse, while it actually refers to the shadow (lit. "dark void"). This is more clearly stated in a quotation in "Treatise on Astronomy Part 2" in Book of Sui (《隋書·天文志中》): "Zhang Heng said: '[There is a place] in opposition to the sun. It is as big as the sun. Sunlight doesn't illuminate it. It's called an-xu. When an-xu meets the moon, the moon is eclipsed. When it encounters a star, the star is missing.'" (張衡云：「對日之衝，其大如日，日光不照，謂之闇虛。闇虛逢月則月食，值星則星亡。」)

So the last sentence of the excerpt from Ling Xian (「在星星微，月過則食」) should be translated as "When it is on a star, the star is hidden. The moon is eclipsed when goes through it." The whole paragraph says nothing about occultations or solar eclipses.

There are other minor mistakes in Needham's translation. I suggest we find a better translation to replace it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 十七世纪 (talk • contribs) 15:57, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

GA failed

Again, you need more sources than Needham. --Ideogram 10:18, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed that problem a bit with more sources.--PericlesofAthens 19:18, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA Nomination

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
It is stable.
It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
Overall:
a Pass/Fail:

Suggestions

The complaints I am voicing here are pretty much the same as in the last article (Su Song)

You need to indicate the name of the volumes in addition to the number for the Needham references.

There are several problems with the prose in a few sections.

There are too many parentheses all around the article. The use of parantheses should be minimized and worked into the prose. When it comes to Chinese translations of terms, many of them can simply be removed.
You are mixing Wade-Giles and Pinyin romanization. The majority of the article is in Pinyin, but you must convert the Wade-Giles into Pinyin before the article is passed. If you need assistance in this regard please let me know, as I can help convert the stuff.Zeus1234

Update: I fully indicated the names of the Needham volumes, limited the amount of parentheses while rewording info into prose, and the only Wade-giles translations left are in Needham's direct quotes, which should not be reworded.--PericlesofAthens 03:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Images

I've just drastically improved the image situation with this article; I think the new pictures fit splendidly. Anyone else have a comment on what could possibly be added?--Pericles of Athens^Talk 10:50, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Main page news

Another day, another featured article. Thanks to all who lended a hand in bringing this article to featured status!--Pericles of Athens^Talk 02:27, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This page could still use some protection. Benjwong (talk) 23:08, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Polymath

Why is he only "considered a polymath by some scholars"? Are there any scholars who don't consider him one? If this isn't a point of controversy then I don't see why it needs to be mentioned at all. --Heron (talk) 12:40, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have not come across a scholar who disputes him being a polymath; yet I was only able to find a few scholars he deemed him so with an explicit mentioning of the word "polymath". Hence I stated that there are "some" scholars and did not insert my own assumption that there is some universal consensus, which I have no proof of. If you can find a scholar who says "most" or "all" sinologists consider him a polymath, have at it hoss! Lol.--Pericles of Athens^Talk 14:21, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

what is this?

"Here we can see how important the exemplary function of the primitive scientific structure is. In order to use the Euclidean system of geometry as a model for the development of astronomical theory, Ptolemy first had to select hypotheses which could serve as axioms. He naturally regarded circular motion as fundamental and then used the circular motion of deferents and epicycles in his earth-centered theory. Although Zhang Heng understood that the sun, moon and planets move in circles, he lacked a model for a logically structured theory and so could not establish a corresponding astronomical theory. Chinese astronomy was most interested in extracting the algebraic features of planetary motion (that is, the length of the cyclic periods) to establish astronomical theories. Thus astronomy was reduced to arithmetic operations, extracting common multiples and divisors from the observed cyclic motions of the heavenly bodies"

i have no idea what this means, and i would invite anyone out there who is able to provide explanation, to do so. Decora (talk) 01:16, 26 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. As this is an (overlong) quote from a reference source it should be precised rather than quoted direct I believe. ► Philg88 ◄ ^talk 10:02, Saturday February 26, 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Zhang Heng/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Um, this article is well beyond start status now.--PericlesofAthens 03:09, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 03:09, 13 April 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 11:16, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Zhang Heng. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:53, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Needham (1959), Volume 3

There are references pointing to non-existing bibliography. I am talking about Needham (1959). There is no source from that year of publication although there it is a Volume 3 of Needham's work.

There should be someone with the book of 1986 to check this.--Hienafant (talk) 11:10, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. I have fixed the problem, since I own that edition of Needham's book and, for that matter, am the one who (largely) wrote this article. Thanks for pointing this out! Pericles of Athens^Talk 11:26, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]