Jump to content

Talk:William Brooks Close

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Did you know nomination

[edit]
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:18, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(
)
William Brooks Close
William Brooks Close
  • ... that British businessman William Brooks Close (pictured) and his two brothers started a colony in Iowa while owning at times almost 40,000 acres of the best soil in the United States?

5x expanded by SL93 (talk). Self-nominated at 16:56, 11 December 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Boat Race

[edit]

SL93: this has a "see also" of List of Cambridge University Boat Race crews and suggests that "the only person to row for three years at the University Boat Race which had Cambridge College compete against University of Oxford". Is this a different "University Boat Race" to The Boat Race? I'm confused by this. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 21:04, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man I have no idea. I didn't add the See Also section. SL93 (talk) 21:17, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
SL93 did you add "the only person to row for three years at the University Boat Race which had Cambridge College compete against University of Oxford".? What does the source say? The University Boat Race is not between "Cambridge College" and Oxford. I don't want to tag this article before tomorrow's run at DYK but this is clearly incorrect at the moment. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 21:19, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man According to The Boat Race 1875, The Boat Race 1876, and The Boat Race 1877 it was. SL93 (talk) 21:23, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
SL93 Not against Cambridge College. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 21:24, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man I understand that. I accidentally made the mistake because of the word shared word Cambridge. I did have it correct earlier in the article. SL93 (talk) 21:26, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
SL93 he also wasn't the only person to row for one of the universities three times. For example Herbert Rhodes did it the same years. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 21:33, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
SL93 and Egan, Penrose, Williams etc etc all did it before Brooks Close got in a boat... The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 21:35, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man I went back to the reference (I will so have multiple late fees) and it says "one of a few". I just removed that part of the sentence entirely. SL93 (talk) 21:40, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Cool. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 21:41, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man Thanks for letting me know of the issues. SL93 (talk) 21:42, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. The Boat Race is something I have a passing interest in........ The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 21:43, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

[edit]
GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:William Brooks Close/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Amakuru (talk · contribs) 17:57, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Early life:

  • I don't think we need a link to yacht, per MOS:OVERLINK - that's a well-known dictionary word and navigating to that article isn't going to add much value in reading about Close's life.
  • "at the family home in Antibes, France" - you said previously that he grew up on a yacht. Might be worth mentioning the family home, and any other places that he lived during his childhood?
  • I found nothing more about the family home, except for what I added to a later section about part of the property being sold, to add. As for as the sources say, it seems like there was a family home in Antibes, but he was still raised on a yacht. SL93 (talk) 04:09, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I did more digging. Close was raised on a yacht until he was five years old. I can't find where he lived after that. I assume it would be the Antibes home, but I can't verify that. SL93 (talk) 04:09, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done.
  • Also, we haven't given nationalities here. Were both his parents British?
  • "his mother sent Close and three brothers to school in England to prepare them for a career that would earn them a living" - slightly odd wording here, I'd have thought that most people who go to school are doing so to help them prepare for a career and earn a living. Was there something particular about schools in England that meant it was preferable for him to go there? And how had he been schooled prior to this?
  • Ref 4 (Gentlemen on the Prairie) - we need more specific page numbers I think, 3–29 is a very broad range and this ref is supporting ten different claims in the article. I'd advise using short referencing for this, listing the book details in a separate section below the main cites. (See Coventry City 2–2 Bristol City (1977), "Brown 1998", "Brassington 1989" etc for details on how this works, or ask me, if you're not sure). If you don't have the book with you any more and need to identify pages, it looks like the 2011 edition is previewable on Google Books.
  • "being a gentleman and earning money was in no way incompatible" - the 2011 version of the above book has this as "were" rather than "was", which seems more grammatical. Also, quibbling slightly on this, this is not a direct quote from Close himself, but something the author says he was "exposed to". So perhaps consider rewording it so that it's written in your own words (to avoid a copyvio) and not in quotes.
  • I see from the DYK chat that Close rowed in The Boat Race during his time at Cambridge. This is actually quite a significant achievement in its own right, it's a presitigious race. So I'd reinstate the mention of it alongside the Henley Regatta, even though you've removed the incorrect claim about him being the only person to do it three years in a row.

First arrival in the United States:

  • "a landowner and a land speculator" - I don't think the second "a" is necessary.
  • "He and his brother toured the prairies in the Midwest and could see the merit in Paullin's claim" - just a query on this one really: Paullin's claim related specifically to north-western Iowa, but here you say he toured the whole mid-west. Did he see anything of note in the areas outside Iowa?
  • "they returned to Quincy" - I wasn't under the impression that he had previously been to Quincy. The sense I got from the first two sentences of this section is that he met Paullin in Philadelphia. Maybe clarify.
  • "his daughter Mary Paullin" - I would probably omit the surname here, since it's the same as her dad's

Emigration to the United States:

  • "The spring after their travels to the Midwest" - maybe give a year; I assume it's 1877, but just for clarity
  • I'm confused about Close's brother's circumstances here. The prior section said he'd spent the previous two years farming in West Virginia. But here there's an implication that he had gone back to England with William. And if he had already lived in the US for two years, then his going there in the spring of 1877 isn't really a fresh emigration?
  • "Close tried to contact friends" - which friends, and were his attempts to contact them successful?
  • Done. Reading again, they never contacted their friends once they received an invitation to meet the Paullin family again. I read earlier in the book and the only use of friends that I saw was referring to the women they met the previous year. It could be those women, but there isn't enough to go on. SL93 (talk) 22:36, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • They later went to Boston, but where did they go when they first arrived?
  • "went to Boston to travel the 1,550 miles (2,490 km) to Iowa by train with the Paullin family" - I thought Paullin lived in Illinois?
  • The second paragraph here seems to cover a lot of the story with not that much detail. I don't know if your sources have any more information on this, but I am left wondering:
    • How did Close's rowing make him a role model? Did that mean he was in contact with lots of British squires?
  • Done. The book doesn't say so I removed that sentence as irrelevant. As I removed that sentence, I noticed that I effed up the page number for the prior sentence so I fixed that. SL93 (talk) 22:40, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Why did having lots of land lead the brothers to found a company in London? What did it do?
  • Done. The online Google Books source for A Wild Discouraging Mess doesn't say. It does say that the Iowa land helped them build a fortune. I added "The company gave men from English universities the opportunity to become farmers in Iowa and it also started an agricultural college that taught relevant farming methods for that area." to the article. SL93 (talk) 22:46, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Did they travel a lot between the UK and US at that time, and were the London and Sioux City the only offices?

Close Colony:

  • "Close and his two brothers began a colony in Iowa, known as the Close Colony" - when was it founded? Also, where exactly was it?
  • Also, what sort of colony is this? It's not clear to me what sort of entity this is... is it a community of farmers or something? And were they all from Britain?
  • "The pamphlet contains information" - probably say this in the past tense, "contained". Although no doubt the pamphlet is still around, it feels more natural to me to phrase the prose like that.
  • "The Prairie Club, which was known for its gatherings and popularity, was opened in Le Mars in 1881 and its rooms were renovated in 1882" - I would rephrase this a bit. Say who founded the club (if known), and avoid saying "it was known for..." which is a bit of an unattributed statement. Something like "XXXX founded the Prairie Club in Le Mars in 1881, which became a popular venue for gatherings and was renovated in 1882..."
  • "During the Close Colony's heyday, many prominent families from Great Britain had a relative living in the colony" - this feels a bit out of place here, in between two sentences about the Prairie Club. Maybe move to the previous paragraph.
  • "equal to almost one-fourth of the area" - this might be an WP:ENGVAR issue, so ignore if so, but to me it's sounds more natural to say "one-quarter".
  • "The Close brothers operated the Iowa Land Company after discussing the matter with Daniel Paullin, which was likely the biggest foreign company operating in the United States at the time" - I feel like this needs some expansion and clarification. It's not immediately obvious what "the matter" under discussion was... presumably the new act of Congress? And this is the first we've heard of the Iowa Land Company, so say when and why it was founded... was this an attempt to get around the new laws? And it's surprising that a new entity would suddenly be the largest foreign company in the US.
  • Done, unable to answer one part. The online source only says, "following discussion with Paullin". At this point, I wonder if Daniel Paullin was basically a puppeteer of much of Close's life. SL93 (talk) 19:14, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done. I moved the paragraph down to try to make it clear that the Congess quote didn't have anything to to do with the company. I found that it was just Close taking over the Iowa Land Company. I managed to find an online source for when the Iowa Land Company started which was May 28, 1885. SL93 (talk) 18:37, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Close brothers were in the business of buying and selling acreage in Iowa, Minnesota, Kansas, Texas, and other states" - this seems a sudden leap. Previously we were told that they had focused on northwest Iowa, and set up a colony there, and suddenly here they are buying land across a much larger area. Clarify when and why this change took place.
  • "They charged a $250 commission and a $125 deposit before the settler left England." - was this amount paid in US dollars, even though the transaction took place in the UK?
  • "While immigrants from Germany and Scandinavia moved to the Midwestern United States because it was necessary" - why was it necessary for these people to move there but not for the British?
  • "The Close brothers purchased Kingsley, Iowa, then known as Quorn, along with parts of six Iowa counties: Woodbury, Plymouth, Cherokee, Lyon, Sioux, and Osceola" - another sentence which seems out of place. In the previous paragraph we heard that William was living in London, and Frederick had died. So probably this Kingsley purchase needs to be moved earlier, with a date and some more context if you have it.
  • Done. I moved it earlier. I added quite a bit of context to the Kingsley, Iowa, article when I explanded it to Good Article status. I feel like it would be best to copy some of it into this article if I decide to go for FA. SL93 (talk) 19:29, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Later life and death:

  • "In 1893, Mary divorced him on the only legal grounds available at the time—adultery" - was he actually engaged in adultery? And the implication of this sentence is that she didn't really divorce him because of that, only because that was the only legal avenue. So why did she really divorce him?
  • Done. Sadly, he was involved in adultery and admitted to it. The book's information for that part was just clunky - adultery was the reason for the divorce, but she did gain full custody of the child after the hearing. SL93 (talk) 19:36, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The court hearing took place on 18 July 1893 in the New York Supreme Court" - did any special ruling emerge from that hearing? Did Mary keep any of Close's wealth for example?
  • "worked on using metal to reinforce concrete and roads" - I assume this doesn't mean he personally worked on metal. Was it another investment or business venture?
  • The last 23 years of his life seem to be skipped almost entirely here. For FA I'd expect quite a bit more detail, but for GA I'd add anything else of interest that you have to hand.
  • Done. The book doesn't have much information from after the railroad was completed, but I did add that he moved back to England. The book doesn't go into any detail about his life with Florence Desmond - Maybe the author didn't care about that. SL93 (talk) 19:54, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Any info on cause of death?
  • I wish. The author of the book didn't seem to care. I found a Google Books snippet that might have answered that question, but it cut off before I could tell. SL93 (talk) 19:43, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers  — Amakuru (talk)

- passed for GA. Congratulations!  — Amakuru (talk) 21:04, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:William_Brooks_Close&oldid=1257536555"