Talk:Ukrah

Unnecessary page move

Rather than go the route of {{db-move}} repeatedly, I would like to bring this matter up for discussion to achieve consensus on how this article should be named.

To begin, new user Nagarukhra (talk · contribs) has been moving pages without discussion and creating unnecessary disambiguation pages, arguably disruptively. In one instance, they moved the article for Karimpur to Karimpur, Nadia, then moved the same article again to Talk:Karimpur,Nadia, effectively flipping the article over to a talk page. Please see complete page move history at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/Nagarukhra

I have consulted Wikipedia:WikiProject_Indian_cities#Basic_India_conventions, Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names), and Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Disambiguation_pages#Places. As this city name is unique and does not conflict with any other, it is therefore an unnecessary disambiguation. I believe that returning this article back to its original title, simply Nagarukhra, should be non-controversial but as it has been moved, moved back, and then moved again, I am now seeking community input. Regards, Yamaguchi先生 16:58, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

WP:Requested moves is the correct process, and I see below that you figured that out. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:21, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

While this article continues to be targeted by the same disruptive individual, it has since been brought to my attention that this locality is known simply as "Ukrah", as supported by the small handful of references this article contains. "Nagar" is apparently a Hindi term for city, but there is nothing to suggest that "Nagarukrah" is an officially recognized name. I have boldly moved this page to what appears to be the appropriate title, and welcome discussion on any further treatment to this article. Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 21:42, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Yamaguchi please change the name Ukrah , convert it as Nagarukhra, West Bengal. Its hampered on facebook. The citizens of Nagarukhra ,want to make Nagarukhra as their Current city & Hometown in Facebook. So take quick action about this article and its problems... Neo500 (talk) 16:58, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Hello Neo500— Please correct me if I am wrong, but every single source presently cited within this article refers to the subject as "Ukrah", not "Nagarukhra". I have reservations about the numerous problematic page moves which have affected this article, including the manner in which it was most recently moved. Wikipedia is not intended to be an extension of Facebook pages, that is irrelevant as anyone can create them. What reliable sources do you have which demonstrate that the preferred name of this city is Nagarukhra, as you claim? Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 01:24, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

I see you have not provided any "reliable sources do you have which demonstrate that the preferred name of this city is Nagarukhra"
However, you removed the references (eg Census 2011) referring to it as Ukrah. I have reinstated those references and corrected their descriptions, to those actually used in the cited material - none of which is Nagarukhra. - Arjayay (talk) 17:15, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 30 July 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Reversion of bold move. Wbm1058 (talk) 14:50, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

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Nagarukhra, West Bengal → Nagarukhra – Unnecessary disambiguation by new user. Please see article talk page for details. Yamaguchi先生 22:45, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2017

Leo 05 (talk) 18:44, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

I want to edit this article for sensitive case & for reliable sources. Thank you. Leo 05 (talk) 18:44, 5 January 2017 (UTC)Leo 05

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 18:48, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Discussion about Ukrah and Nagarukhra, West Bengal

Iamakashnathsarkar (talk) 15:33, 21 August 2017 (UTC) hey friends, Here I am specially talk to about [[1]] & Ukrah.

Actually, Ukrah is a villatic in Nagarukhra and same place,so according to Indian census 2011 Ukrah/Nagarukhra had a population 13,548.

But after the increasing of population Nagarukhra has been announced as a notified area or town in India.

The MLA (Govt.) of Nagarukhra Town wants to correct the entire information in Wikipedia, so they gave me obligation to re correct the information about Nagarukhra.

We want to publish right information about Nagarukhra.

so, if u guys kindly help us to delete the both Ukrah & Nagarukhra, West Bengal article from the Wikipedia, then we can start to write a new article on our city Nagarukhra.

(Thank you)...

@Iamakashnathsarkar: I've copied this comment and replied at Talk:Nagarukhra, West Benagal, where this merge discussion is taking place. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 16:25, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Change the name of this page from Ukrah to Nagarukhra

Dear editors, please change the name of this page from ukrah to Nagarukhra. because its the real name of this town. actually, ukrah is a small ward in Nagarukhra Town. please friends, i need your cooperation asap. (Thank you) Akash Nath Sarkar 05:54, 4 October 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iamakashnathsarkar (talk • contribs)

Iamakashnathsarkar - As you well know, having tried to delete the Ukrah article, and taken part in some of the discussions, this has been discussed several times:- above, at the Teahouse and at Talk:Nagarukhra, West Bengal. Each time, the consensus has been that the article should remain entitled Ukrah. - Arjayay (talk) 10:03, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Naming dispute

Folks, at the moment it looks like there are two distinct entities here, Ukrah (covered in the 2011 census) and Nagarukhra (which I haven't found in the census but which is shown on [2] Google Maps). This is also complicated by the existence of Ukhra which is further away. I think it needs further investigation, and I'll try to help with that when I have the time. But for now, please do your best to provide reliable sources for the contents of the disputed articles, and please don't try deleting the one you disagree with. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:24, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

• Please see Talk:Nagarukhra and continue the discussion there (as that's where I started it, so it makes sense to keep it all in one place). Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:29, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Talk page merge

The following sections have been merged from Talk:Nagarukhra as part of my merging of the two articles (which are about the same place)... Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:33, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion

The page creator User:Iamakashnathsarkar has repeatedly tried to rename our Ukrah article Nagarukhra, despite consensus at Talk:Ukrah that that is incorrect. The creator has contributed to discussions at Talk:Nagarukhra, West Bengal, Talk:Ukrah and the Teahouse, all of which were against Nagarukhra so is well aware of the situation.

As the creator knows, we already have pages Nagarukhra, Nagarukhra, West Bengal and Nagarukhra, West Benagal (note spelling of Benagal) which are redirects to Ukrah - This page, Nagarukhra, India, has another alternativve title possibly to avoid over-writing one of these watched pages.

There have been a number of sockpuppets User:Earthnow, User:Nagarukhra and User:Neo500 involved in this dispute in the past, and I suspect the current page creator may be another sock - Arjayay (talk) 10:22, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

If you check Google maps, they show two different places, Nagarukhra and Ukrah, fairly close to each other a little north of Kolkata - but distinct places. I think this article, Nagarukhra, India, should be moved to Nagarukhra (as the disambiguation really isn't needed) and the other redirects should direct to it. I'll make it so, and I'll watch all the articles and redirects. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:49, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Two Three places

If you search Google maps, it clearly shows two different places fairly close to each other a little north of Kolkata. Here is Nagarukhra (with a misleading "Quick facts" section obtained via the old Wikipedia redirect) and here is Ukhra.

Information about Nagarukhra should go in this article, Nagarukhra, and information about Ukhra should go in the article Ukhra. I suggest people concentrate on getting the two articles accurate and well sourced rather than fighting about it and redirecting things all different ways.

I'm watching all these articles and I will take action if I see any disruption. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:04, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

• There is also a third place, the village Ukrah, which I have not found on a Google Maps search, and which looks like it has possibly been the source of the dispute. All three appear to be distinct places which appear to warrant their own individual Wikipedia articles. I'll investigate further when I have the time. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:12, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Update

Folks, at the moment it looks like there are several distinct entities here, Ukrah (covered in the 2011 census) and Nagarukhra (which I haven't found in the census but which is shown on [3] Google Maps). This is also complicated by the existence of Ukhra which is further away. I think it needs further investigation, and I'll try to help with that when I have the time. But for now, please do your best to provide reliable sources for the contents of the disputed articles, and please don't try deleting the one you disagree with. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:25, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

@Boing! said Zebedee: Thanks. I hadn't previously been involved in any of these discussions, I just saw the unsourced article while doing NPP and googled it, which is where I found the other article all the redirects. Since the lat & long matched I assumed it was an inadvertent confusion/duplication, but I am not an expert so I'll let folks who know more hash it out. Thanks for catching it on my Speedy. JamesG5 (talk) 18:18, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Actually, JamesG5, if you hadn't speedied it I wouldn't have seen it, and the naming dispute would probably have gone on for longer. As it is, I can now help to settle it, so it's a good result. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:50, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Indian Census 2011

(edit conflict) Census 2011 recognizes Ukrah as a town here with a population of 13,548. I can find no census entry for Nagarukrah, despite the totally unsourced claim in this article that "As of 2011 India census, Nagarukhra had a population of 20,957." - Arjayay (talk) 11:26, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

That census entry actually says "large village", not "town". I also can not find Nagarukrah in the 2011 census, so it's a mystery where the "population of 20,957" came from. Yet Google maps clearly has "Nagarukrah" and not "Ukrah" at that location. Have you found anything about either name from searching Bengali sources? Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:33, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

To add to the confusion, the Google map shows places like Nagarukhra High School and Nagarukhra Kshetra-Mohan Girls' High School, which are both listed at the West Bengal Board of Secondary Education site as being in Nagarukhra. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:40, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

I've asked at User talk:Iamakashnathsarkar for the source of the census data. But also, the Search facility at the 2011 census site seems very poor, so not finding a match yet should not be considered conclusive. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:54, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

I would question whether Google maps is a reliable source - this has been discussed 28 times at the reliable sources noticeboard, without a conclusive decision, but I know of numerous errors in my vicinity, particularly over the locations of places.
To quote User:Yamaguchi先生 at Talk:Ukrah "it has since been brought to my attention that this locality is known simply as "Ukrah", as supported by the small handful of references this article contains. "Nagar" is apparently a Hindi term for city, but there is nothing to suggest that "Nagarukrah" is an officially recognized name."
Also at Talk:Ukrah the new article creator User:Iamakashnathsarkar has previously stated - "Actually, Ukrah is a villatic in Nagarukhra and same place,so according to Indian census 2011 Ukrah/Nagarukhra had a population 13,548" - So, as the new article creator accepts it is the same place, this is clearly just a naming dispute, whilst they have also accepted that the population is 13,548 - despite their claim in the new article that it is 20,957 - Arjayay (talk) 12:02, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

That's selective quotation, which is misleading - you omit to quote his next sentence which says "But after the increasing of population Nagarukhra has been announced as a notified area or town in India". Let's wait and see if he can tell us where he got his claimed census data from. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:10, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Oh, and I agree that Google Maps might not be a reliable source, but it does point onwards to examples of the use of "Nagarukhra". For example, that there is a PO Pincode for Nagarukhra (which is actually cited in the Ukrah article - there does not appear to be an "Ukrah" post office). Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:14, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Can you please help me about this article?

Akash Nath Sarkar 01:51, 3 December 2017 (UTC) Actually, I am the citizen & living in Nagarukhra/Ukrah. At the British period the name of the town was Ukrah' but after freedom when the local peoples who are living here since the freedom of India, locally changed the name as Nagarukhra. After that everybody knows the name of this Town as Nagarukhra. Even when we use our address as official purpose, we use Nagarukhra. But the Government doesn't change the name from the Census Data. But we want our article must be publish as Nagarukhra not as Ukrah. (Thank You) Akash Nath Sarkar 01:51, 3 December 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iamakashnathsarkar (talk • contribs)

Hi Iamakashnathsarkar - thank you for re-confirming that Ukrah and Nagarukhra are the same place.
As you know, from discussions at Talk:Ukrah and Talk:Nagarukhra, West Bengal and the WP:Teahouse, which you have been involved in, the renaming has been discussed several times, but each time you have failed to provide any reliable source - such as a government or panchayat website - to verify the fact that the town has been renamed.
You have stated, above, that "the Government doesn't change the name from the Census Data. But we want our article must be publish as Nagarukhra not as Ukrah." From this, it sounds as if the official name has not been changed, but you are trying to change the name, based upon what the local people call it - is that correct? - Arjayay (talk) 19:27, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

• I'm getting together some comments which I'll post here soon. What's tricky is that Wikipedia uses common names rather than official names (see WP:COMMONNAME), so I'm coming to think that the article should open with "Ukrah, or Nagarukhra,..." to include both names. And I think we should be fine with the article under Ukrah and with Nagarukhra as a redirect to it - that way, whichever name people search for, they'll find it and they'll find both names in the opening sentence. I'll expand on these thoughts probably tomorrow, but for now, Iamakashnathsarkar, where did you get the "As of 2011 India census, Nagarukhra had a population of 20,957. Nagarukhra had an average literacy rate of 87.85%." claim from, seeing as Nagarukhra under that name does not seem to be included in the 2011 census? I've already asked you on your user page, but you have not replied. Please tell us. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:51, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Thank you Arjayay & Boing! said Zebedee for understand this matter. Boing! said Zebedee, I get this data from this site :[4] though, I was published wrong population number mistakenly. And the literacy rate from the Local Knowledge. (Thank You) Akash Nath Sarkar 02:42, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Naming

One key point is that Wikipedia does not always use official names but generally prefers common names (see WP:Common names). I've done a bit more Google searching, and here's what I've found:

Ukrah

1. Official name, used in 2011 census.
2. Indian Village Directory and VillagesInIndia have entries for Ukrah and not for Nagarukrah.

Nagarukhra

1. Nagarukhra High School and Nagarukhra Kshetra-Mohan Girls' High School both use Nagarukrah.
2. The State Bank of India shows the local branch in Nagarukhra.
3. The United Bank of India shows the local branch as being Nagar Ukhra.
4. PINcode.net shows the Post Office in Nagarukrah.

Conclusion

These are clearly two different names for the same place, with the official name being Ukrah and the most commonly-used name being Nagarukrah. This Nagarukhra article's only real content (the demographics) can not be substantiated by reliable sources, and so there's little that needs to be preserved here.

Proposal

As I already suggested, I propose to redirect this article to the (older and better sourced) Ukrah article, change that article so it names the place as "Ukrah or Nagarukrha", and merge any extra details from this article. That way, whichever name people search for, they'll find the right place, and the article will make it clear that both names are in use. When the next census is in, we can maybe review the naming depending on what name is then used. If there are no objections, I'll make these changes within the next few days (and I'll copy the contents of this talk page to the target to preserve the discussion). Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 21:00, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Thank you Boing! said Zebedee and others for your efforts to resolve this. I am not sure that I have any helpful input. Google Maps now displays Nagarukhra as a territory and a number of different institutions by the same name appear nearby, but outside this region. My attempts to locate reliable sources for this settlement have been difficult and I am reluctant to incorporate original research. I will defer to the community consensus on how to best proceed. Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 21:01, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Done

I've implemented the proposal, above, which means that anyone searching for Ukrah or Nagarukrha will get to the same page. And maybe the next census will clarify things. If anyone disagrees and wants to make any changes, please discuss it here and get a consensus first. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:40, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Renamed The article as Nagarukhra

Dear User and administrative of Wikipedia, please stay attention in this serious problem. The article named Ukrah Is not the original name of this article. The correct and original name of the article is Nagarukhra. Please cooperate and fix the problem and rename this article from ukrah to Nagarukhra. here is the sites that describes that the article name is Nagarukhra.

• [[5]]
• [[6]]
• [[7]]
• [[8]]
• [[9]]
• [[10]]
• [[11]]

Starboy.help (talk) 12:56, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Ukrah and Nagarukhra, Nadia is same Article, please merge ukrah with Nagarukhra, Nadia and delete ukrah article

ukrah article is the same place with different names as a same part of Nagarukhra, Nadia.please merge ukrah with Nagarukhra, Nadia Article. Starboy.help (talk) 02:34, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

This has been discussed numerous times before and we have always retained Ukrah - please see WP:RM#CM I suspect the answer will be the same - wait until the next census - Arjayay (talk) 08:30, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ukrah.Humanoid.op (talk) 16:41, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

• @Humanoid.op: I see that you have tagged the article for deletion at AfD, but you have not started a deletion discussion. Deletion is not merging, and there is no consensus to merge here on the talk page. Please start the debate and state a rationale why Ukrah should be removed or remove the deletion tag. • Gene93k (talk) 16:51, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
• additional comment. Ukrah was the government-recognised name of this place as of 2011, and editor have so far failed to produce reliable references showing an official name change. Nagarukhra, Nadia is a recently created fork and an apparent copy-paste page move attempt, against Wikipedia policy. As editor Arjayay advises above, either wait for the 2021 census or seek a consensus to move based on reliably sourced evidence. Until then, Nagarukhra is a neologism for Wikipedia purposes. • Gene93k (talk) 18:35, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Prod placed & removed

A {{prod}} template was placed on the article today by User:Iamakashnathsarkar. The PROD process is only for uncontroversial deletion, and it is obvious from the prolonged discussions here on the talk page that this is far from uncontroversial, so I have removed the prod. If someone wants to delete te article, it needs taking to AFD. --David Biddulph (talk) 10:35, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

• @Iamakashnathsarkar and David Biddulph: PROD was already contested in 2020. This is a content dispute that has been going on since 2015. This whole time, editors proposing Nagarukhra have failed to produce evidence, other than WP:USERGENERATED sources, that Nagarukhra is anything more than a neologism or a campaign, at best. As of the 2011 census, Ukrah was a legally-recognised populated place, satisfying WP:GEOLAND. That notability does not expire. Proposing deletion to settle a slow-speed edit war won't accomplish what proponents are trying to achieve. • Gene93k (talk) 12:04, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 October 2021

Give me the access to edit this article Interstellarboy (talk) 02:02, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done This article is Extended confirmed protected due to vandalism and wp:sock puppetry. If you want an edit made to the article, request an edit by using the format Change "X" to "Y" as stated on WP:Edit requests Adakiko (talk) 03:14, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 July 2022

I'm just want to submit a request about the page (thanks) Wiki starboy (talk) 15:35, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 19:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Request to change the name of the village from Ukrah to Nagarukhra

Actual name of the article is Nagarukhra. When you search in google the search results will show you the exact name of hhe village, even the Panchayat office, Primary school, high school, banks and post office shows it's place and name as Nagarukhra Gram Panchayat, Nagarukhra high school, Nagarukhra primary school, Nagarukhra sub post office, Nagarukhra Primary health centre, Nagarukhra police station, State Bank of India - Nagarukhra branch, Punjab national Bank - Nagarukhra etc. Please correct the name of this wiki article. It's been long time to take action in it. Bigdawgs titan (talk) 11:55, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello Bigdawgs titan - This has been discussed numerous times (see above) and the consensus is to stick with Ukrah, at least until the next census is published.
Please come back and re-open a discussion, If, the name has changed in the next census - Arjayay (talk) 12:05, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

If it doesn't change it's name, then what should be the step after this, help Bigdawgs titan (talk) 12:26, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

@Bigdawgs titan: The long-running problem with Nagarukhra is that nearly all references come from user-generated content, including Open Street Map and Google Maps. That's why Nagarukhra was deleted from Wikipedia in 2021. Without an official source, like a census, Nagarukhra is a neologism. • Gene93k (talk) 12:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)