Talk:Typhoon Neoguri (2014)

Image changing

Okay, I apologize for my confused edit summary. While not a requirement, could you elaborate on what you were doing? Sorry, but it has kind of confused me... Thank you. I at first figured it was another earthdata image, but this one appears to have a different source. If you could replace it with a png version though, that would help. Thanks again. Dustin (talk) 15:31, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

After looking, it appears that the image added by Kwlam259 may in fact really be the same image, but it appears to have a slightly different crop. The main difference is that it has had radiance correction (I think). Dustin (talk) 15:47, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Nagano mudslides

I was under the impression that the Nagano mudslides were caused by the seasonal rain front, rather than the typhoon itself. The same rain front brought extreme flooding on Amakusa in Kumamoto Prefecture on July 6/7. 180.27.168.162 (talk) 06:37, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Name

The claim that the (Japanese) JMA named this typhoon 'Neoguri', after the Korean for "racoon" is not believable. The JMA I believe only ever uses numbers now, for some sort of political correctness motivation, and the JMA is also not generally Korean-speaking. The following blog page in Japanese explains the Korean name: http://blog.goo.ne.jp/dalpaengi/e/422567e285ee108318efd634e274dba8

Note that the 'eo' represents a Korean back 'o' sound (roughly: I'm not an expert), so the Japanese rendering would be ノグリ (no-gu-ri), and _if_ the JMA had given it this name, it would surely be known as Noguri. The confusion is present on lots of Japanese sites mentioning ネオグリ (ne-o-gu-ri), which can only have come from the name written in Roman letters in the standard Korean transcription, thus nothing to do with the JMA. Imaginatorium (talk) 16:06, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Ooh, I only just saw this, I will comment in a moment. Dustin (talk) 16:21, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

OK, I found this page on the JMA website, which explains that the various countries in the taiphoon warning organisation (whatever it is, exactly) proposed names which are used in order. Neoguri (named by Korea of course) is number 53, which somehow makes it no. 8 this year: http://www.jma.go.jp/jma/kishou/know/typhoon/1-5.html Imaginatorium (talk) 16:22, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I think individual countries from the UN have to submit names, which are then decided upon by the WMO then actually given to storms by the responsible RSMC. I am sure of this; the reasoning is that one nation alone might be biased in the types of names it chooses. Dustin (talk) 16:24, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

But it is very misleading to say that the JMA "names" it Neoguri: actually the JMA calls it "Typhoon no. 8". If it was the JMA that assigned whatever status it needs to get the next number on the list, the article should say something like that. Imaginatorium (talk) 19:02, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

The JMA is the agency that assigns tropical cyclones with names in the Western Pacific. They may opt to us their own numbering when referring to systems, but due to policies with the WMO, their status as the RSMC for the West Pacific requires them to assign the names. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:05, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

It isnt misleading to say that the JMA named Neoguri since they did - the only thing Korea did was propose the name back in 1998. Also Dustin it isnt members of the UN that submit the names its members of the relevant WMO Committee.Jason Rees (talk) 20:03, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

The World Meteorological Organization is part of the United Nations, and so members of those committees must be part of the UN, right? Dustin (talk) 20:10, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Nope - Look at Niue and the Cook Islands - both considered to be a part of NZ and members of WMO but not the UN.Jason Rees (talk) 20:22, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

That does not make any sense. Maybe they aren't part of the broad "United Nations", but they must have some sort of affiliation from what I can tell if they are part of the World Meteorological Organization because the WMO itself if part of the UN. In any case, this doesn't affect article content, so this discussion need not go on any longer. Dustin (talk) 20:26, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Neoguri name in Japan (brought from user Meow's discussion page, and expanded a little)

Hi, May I know why you removed only the name used in Japan for Neoguri from the intro? If you do not speak Japanese, please google 台風８号, which means "typhoon no. 8" in Japanese, and you will get over 1.2 million hits. Please reintroduce the name used in Japan. Have a nice day!--Mycomp (talk) 00:50, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

You should check what an international designation is first. Neoguri is 1408, so it is 台風 8 号; Haiyan is 1330, so it is 台風 30 号. Japan only uses the international designation and seldom uses the international name, and there is no Japanese name for most of tropical cyclones because all of them since 2000 are designated and named by the Japan Meteorological Agency. In fact, 台風 8 号 is not only used in Japan but also China, Hong Kong, Macau, South Korea, Taiwan, etc.. Those countries or regions just follow the international designation, including Japan itself. -- Meow 02:48, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

You seem to have misunderstood my question. I have no problem with international designations and all that. I was simply asking why you left the name used in the Philippines, but removed the name used in Japan. OK, maybe it does not have to be mentioned in the intro, but somewhere further down in the article. If you look at the ja.wiki article, you will see that it is the only the article that does not use "racoon dog" (in translation, of course) in the title, it is called 平成26年台風第8号, and there is a reason for that: people simply call it "Typhoon No. 8" (NHK [1], Asahi Shinbun [2], Yomiuri Shimbun [3] etc., etc.). Even the Japan Meteorological Agency uses on its official website only "Typhoon No. 8 of the 26th Year of the Heisei Era" [4]. So why not mention it in the English-language article somewhere? I think we should let the reader know the name by which ordinary people in Japan call this particular typhoon. There can be no harm to that, can there?--Mycomp (talk) 08:17, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

You seem to misunderstand my answer first. Typhoon No. 8 is not even a name at all, and it is just directly exported from the international designation. 1408, the 14 is for Heisei 26 and the 08 is for No. 8. Anyway, I suggest that you should let more people judge on this issue at the WikiProject, as there is not only Neorugi called as “Typhoon No. xx”. I just gave you my opinion and what the English Wikipedia usually uses. -- Meow 10:24, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

You say: "Typhoon No. 8 is not even a name at all". I am not suggesting to change the article name, and, yes, I do know what 1408 means. I am just saying that we should mention it somewhere in the article because the Japanese call it this, whether we, here at en.wiki, like it or not. Why does ja.wiki call its article that way, and why do the sources I provided (the Japanese national broadcaster, and the two biggest papers in Japan) call it Typhoon No. 8? You don't seem to have a problem with the name it is called in the Philippines it seems, though. But ok, let's see what other people mean.--Mycomp (talk) 12:45, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

I notice that if you translate Neoguri to Chinese, (浣熊) then you translate it back to English, it returns "Coon". The Raccoon thing maybe? Dustin (talk) 15:07, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Well in this case the Republic of (South) Korea contributed the name Neoguri and it means 'raccoon dog'. As for names, we seldom use names not used by agencies (in this case JMA uses the official naming, Neoguri, and PAGASA in the Philippines uses Florita). Using all used names of tropical cyclones in the lead may present problems later, as we'd have the official name, the international designation, the JTWC designation, the Japanese identifier, the Philippines name, the Vietnamese name... Things could get pretty long. TheAustinMan^{(Talk·Works)} 15:17, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Ah, I had forgotten about the fact that the name itself was from South Korea... the translation of Neoguri is 너구리. That translates back to English as "raccoon". Dustin (talk) 15:21, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Personally id be in favour of including the international designation, but none of the others (Ie: JTWC, Vietnam, Japan etc).Jason Rees (talk) 16:00, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

浣熊 is the wrong Chinese translation for Neoguri provided by the South Korean government, but they can’t fix it as it has been adopted by so many regions. -- Meow 16:28, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Hatnote

At least one, and possibly two, users have repeatedly reverted my edits to the article's hatnote, without any explanation. As I have stated in edit summaries, the applicable Wikipedia guideline is WP:D#HOWTODAB, which states that when it is intended to link readers to a disambiguation page, the link should always be "to the title that includes the text '(disambiguation)', even if that is a redirect" (emphasis in original). Please do not change the hatnote to link to the disambiguation page directly, instead of through the "(disambiguation)" redirect. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 18:11, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

I would just like to add that routing the link through a "Foo (disambiguation)" redirect is necessary because it prevents the link from showing up in the system as an error requiring repair. bd2412 T 18:58, 17 July 2014 (UTC)