Jump to content

Talk:Triglavka

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WP:COMMONNAME

[edit]

Triglavka - 102 hits; Triglav cap - 2 hits. That's a factor of 51x. The "proper English translation" is determined by the sources, not us. -- Director (talk) 13:54, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the reliable English sources not Google hits, part of them in Slovene and referring to other things. Try Google books or Google Scholar. --Eleassar my talk 13:57, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nisem bil rojen včeraj, Eleassar :). That is Google Books. -- Director (talk) 14:02, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, sorry, I've missed that. In any case, the majority of hits is in Slovene and there are zero hits for "Triglavka cap" (except 1: Wikipedia).[1] --Eleassar my talk 14:06, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There is no need to disambiguate (with "cap"), since "Triglavka" refers to the cap. "Triglav", on the other hand, needs disambiguation. There are three Google Books English-language sources that use "Triglavka" [2], and two Google Scholar English-language papers that use that term [3]. I would suggest a move to Triglavka (not "Triglavka cap").
As far as "Titovka" and "Tito cap" are concerned, there is simply no contest. -- Director (talk) 14:13, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, let's then stick to triglavka, triglavka (cap) or 'triglavka' cap; but not triglavka cap. --Eleassar my talk 14:22, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The move to "Triglavka cap" was a mistake on my part. If you'll excuse me, I have a lot of redirects to create [4] :P. -- Director (talk) 14:29, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hm, it seems it's still not ok. Google Books lists five results in total[5]: two of the English books include the word as 'triglavka', meaning that it is not an English word and we also cannot put apostrophes in the title. One book includes the word Triglavska actually, and one book is in German. The only book remaining writes triglavka in italics, again meaning it's not a native English word. Google Scholar offers five hits[6]: two of them are a duplicate of the hit at Google Books, two of them are in German, one is a book that can't be verified right now and may include either 'triglavka' or triglavka; the word may also mean either the cap or an edelweiss.
That means that the cap is named as "triglavka", without apostrophes and without italics, in zero (or at best one - not verified) books or articles. There are two books for "Triglav cap".[7] In addition to it, there is another reliable source using the term "Triglav cap" as a regular English term.[8] (Slovenski partizan, pg. 44) This naming is therefore used by reliable books as an English term, in line with WP:ENGLISH. It is also technically possible to write it in the title (apostrophes can't be included there) and more informative. --Eleassar my talk 15:01, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, the last added source (Slovenski partizan) tells that in Croatia, it was called 'partizanka' - "Partisan cap". We should research its usage too. --Eleassar my talk 15:47, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(Lets please leave it on the one version that had a consensus.)
Ok I checked the sources again and it looks like we have a tie (never saw that before). A grand total of two English-language sources use "triglavka", and two sources use "triglav cap". In Google the English-language search renders 5 hits for "triglavka partisans -wikipedia" and four hits for "triglav cap partisans -wikipedia". I have to say I never before discussed WP:COMMONNAME with such small numbers :). I prefer "triglavka" since its a single word, and "triglav cap" isn't really a good translation. Its the best translation, but it still doesn't convey the meaning well. It would be like translating "Katyusha" into "Katie".. -- Director (talk) 15:50, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think we should post the page at WP:Requested moves and let other editors tell their opinion. In the meantime, it's ok to leave it as it is. As to the "katyusha - katie" analogy, the spelling of the proper name Triglav is the same whether using "triglavka" or "Triglav cap". --Eleassar my talk 15:55, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

[edit]
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page not moved: no consensus after 25 days. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 14:26, 9 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Triglavka → Triglav cap –. Per WP:ENGLISH, 'Triglav cap' should be given preference as the article title, because it is an established English naming. In the case of 'triglavka', MOS:ITALICS demands that we use italics in the title and main text due to this being a foreign word. 'Triglav cap' is also more informative. --Eleassar my talk 11:21, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:ENGLISH. The statistics (Google Book hits) aren't very meaningful because of the small number, but I prefer Triglav cap simply for semantic clarity (cf. also the suggested triglavar → Triglav enthusiast, triglavanka → Triglav emblem here). Doremo (talk) 14:30, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Both terms are equally well known (or rather unknown) in English usage [9][10], with "Triglavka" in a tiny lead. "Triglavka" is also truer to its original form, while "Triglav cap" is slightly misleading in that in insinuates the cap had something to do with Triglav itself, besides its shape that is (such as e.g. being a cap of the people who live near the mountain or who climb it). I submit also Budenovka and Titovka as similar examples. MOS:ITALICS doesn't really demand we use italics here, as the term is found in English-language usage as well. Eleassar, please in future submit evidence for such claims as above. -- Director (talk) 14:34, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Actually it's up to you to prove this word is established in English; I can't prove it's not. --Eleassar my talk 16:30, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there you have it up there. Both terms are practically unused. Neither are really "established" in English. -- Director (talk) 17:29, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, both 'Triglav' and 'cap' are established English terms, whereas 'triglavka' is not, as you just said. What do you mean with 'insinuates the cap had something to do with Triglav itself'? This is actually a statement of fact, properly sourced in the article. --Eleassar my talk 11:59, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Triglavka&oldid=1206839438"