Talk:Trübsee

Switzerland Mid‑importance

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Lakes Low‑importance

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Requested move 25 January 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. A good argument has been presented that the current title is the most common name, regardless of the official one. Jenks24 (talk) 11:48, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Trübsee → Trüebsee – official wording by swisstopo ZH8000 (talk) 19:24, 25 January 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Andrewa (talk) 05:44, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). st 170e 19:27, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@ZH8000: I don't believe this is an uncontroversial request. There's a category called Trübsee on the Commons and the source used in the article spells it this way. st170e 19:27, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Just a bit more background: swisstopo is the Swiss Federal Office of Topography and responsible for the coordination, regulation, and publication of geographical names in Switzerland, besides other official tasks. This is defined by law (GeoIG) and federal acts (GeoIV, GeoNV, LVV-VBS). Geographical names in Switzerland are defined by municipalities and/or cantons according to the substantial Swiss subsidiarity principle, but coordinated and controlled by swisstopo. One of their publication tasks are fulfilled by their national maps. On this part you can see that the lake and the Alpine pasture (zoom out) is written as Trüebsee, but the cable car station (in red letters, zoom in, if not visible!) is called Trübsee. This error (the mismatching of the geographical names with the transport means stop's name) is done regularly by amateurs, but nevertheless simply wrong. -- ZH8000 (talk) 21:38, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What other sources do you have? I'd like to believe what you say, but don't want to decide this based on the words on one map. I don't find any English-language books that make the distinction. Dicklyon (talk) 04:57, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it is the only source we actually need, since it is an official source (see my comment above) and the maps (e.g. map.geo.admin.ch) is an official document (GeoIG Art. 25 and LVV-VBS Art. 10). But you can also find them in the official database of INSPIRE. -- ZH8000 (talk) 14:00, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I originally believed the naming to be either careless copying or a regional variation, since the name used on Swisstopo (even for the same feature) seemed to vary between different scales and all of the tourist literature available in Engelberg uses the Trübsee spelling. However, Swisstopo is now consistently using the 'üe' spelling for the geographical areas and 'ü' for the lake. Therefore I support this proposal in order to keep the name consistent with the official source. Threefoursixninefour (talk) 16:32, 28 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Threefoursixninefour: Please, may I ask you again to be more careful about your observations. And please (!) follow the formating rules for talk pages: WP:TP.

Swisstopo is always using the Swiss German spelling for all kind of geographical names; this definitely includes the naming of the lake. And tourist material are hardly reliable sources, but indeed more the result of "careless copying".

Support This appears as another example of a misspelling of a topic being propogated widely. Follow the govt source and change it tourists will follow suit (you'd be surprised how often tourist sources simply look up whatever spelling Wikipedia uses and ignore the official name, this might even be an issue where the false name in this article is being mirrored elsewhere, propagating the falsehood). Insert CleverPhrase Here 22:45, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose – as far as I can see, the only evidence presented in support of this move proposal is a single notation on a single map. If there are other sources, please present clearly so we can review. Dicklyon (talk) 05:53, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - The following newer sources use the present title: Rough Guide, another travel guide (by Lonely Planet), another guide, Telegraph, The Local, InTheSnow.com. Newer source do not use the proposed one. Some older sources don't use the diacritic, but that won't matter until the time is right. --George Ho (talk) 09:52, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per George Ho. That seems quite a comprehensive source of modern sources showing the current spelling is the common one. — Amakuru (talk) 10:54, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Relisting because there are many arguments above, some of them valid and subtle but others (including the original rationale) completely baseless in terms of policy (see wp:official names, and please do what it says i.e. read WP:AT). So let us relist to untangle them here and give the closer a fair go. Andrewa (talk) 05:50, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.