Talk:Tom Jones (singer)/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Middle name again

This has been previously discussed here in 2003 and again here in 2015. What has changed? One of the sources recently added is Lucy Ellis's (2000) book Tom Jones: Close Up, which says this on page 65. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:26, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Imitators/tribute artists

Re this edit: all famous pop stars have imitators/lookalikes/tribute artists. Generally speaking though, they are not notable enough to mention in their biographical articles. It runs into problems with WP:TOPIC, and could be seen as vaguely promotional for the artists concerned.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 13:52, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Totally disagree. These are all high profile artists. Like Elvis Presley with his impersonators, Tom Jones was bound to have his share. His act is visual, stylized and unique. It has a cultural aspect. These artists are part of that culture and are all high profile. They are not some local entertainer.

The edit I made was

• Similar to Elvis Presley with the Elvis imitators, there are Tom Jones imitators and tribute artists. Malaysia has its own version of Tom Jones. Tony Warren is known as "the Tom Jones of Malaysia". Warren a former school teacher, built up his popularity in the 1980s, performing at venues such as the Copper Grill in The Weld on Jalan Raja Chulan, Kuala Lumpur. His act has taken him to Singapore, Jakarta, Cambodia and Australia where he appeared on Seven Network. Steve McCoy is from Barrington, New Jersey. He has been referred to as the world's leading Tom Jones impersonator. He was once invited on stage by Tom Jones himself who said during the show "There's a celebrity in the house ..... 'Steve McCoy". Sam Sorono was a Filipino singer from Bramley, Rotherham in the UK. A former actor in Martial arts films, he had been an entertainer in the Philippines. He had played with Count Basie and Ike and Tina Turner. He had shot to fame in the early Nineties as a result of appearing on Stars in the Eyes and was also the first act to appear on the Spanish version of the show. He died of cancer in 2008.

References

If you take the time to research you will see that there a notable and worthy of inclusion cultural scene going on out there! The more I looked into it, the more evident it was. There could even be a separate article for Tom Jones Imitators. So once again I say that these three guys, Tony Warren, Steve McCoy and Sam Sorono are all high profile. There's probably a few more worthy of inclusion. Elvis isn't the only artist to have his imitators / impersonators. Karl Twist (talk) 10:53, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

At our article on tribute acts, there is a list of notable acts / impersonators, none of whom impersonate Tom Jones. We also have a long article on Elvis impersonators. I don't suggest that we should start a new article on Tom Jones impersonators, but equally, I think a case can be made for including a paragraph or two, perhaps in this article or perhaps in another article, noting the existence of Tom Jones impersonators in various countries around the world. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:20, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

My two cents: I thought that this was running into problems with WP:TOPIC and WP:DUE, because none of the named tribute acts is all that notable. Tribute act looks at this phenomenon in more detail. Here is someone doing a Tom Jones tribute on YouTube. It might be OK at the pub on Friday night, but wouldn't win Stars in Their Eyes.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 14:40, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

I'm sure that most if not all of the individual impersonators are not notable, but the phenomenon - apparently widespread if not global - of Tom Jones being one of the artists who is sufficiently well-known to be impersonated is notable enough to be mentioned. The "cultural influence" section of this article does not mention it, and nor does the tribute act article. Though I wouldn't go so far as to describe it as a "cultural scene", perhaps there should be some acknowledgement of it. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:24, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Duw, duw. Our Martin's a bit lame. Not even one pair of ladies panties to mop his brow, look you. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:34, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

The sticking point is naming individual Tom Jones tribute acts, because they are not notable enough in their own right. This leads to WP:SPAMBAIT because people will add various other names to the list. There could be a brief mention of the phenomenon without naming/listing the actual performers.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 05:54, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Stevie Riks is the only person I can find with a Wikipedia article who has impersonated Jones professionally. But even adding a mention of him seems a bit marginal. He's certianly not a Jones tribute act. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:00, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Reply to Ghmyrtle post 11:20, 20 April 2018: Yes I agree Ghmyrtle. The three artists I mentioned have all appeared in articles in main-stream news papers in their countries. Karl Twist (talk) 12:12, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Reply to ianmacm post 14:40, 20 April 2018: I can say that the three artists I listed have all been covered by main stream press in their countries, one endorsed by Tom Jones himself! Tony Warren is regarded as the #1 in Malaysia. Sam Sorono may be notable to have an article on his own. I'm doing some research. He had starred in 7 martial Hong Kong artists films. Also your use of some youtube clip of a Karaoke type singer probably unintentional, is still quite misleading. Also Sorono, a recording artist in his own right became a household name following his appearance on Stars in Our Eyes. Karl Twist (talk) 12:12, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi Karl. Good luck with Sam Sorono. If he is indeed notable for his own article, I'm sure he could be included here, although I'm assuming that he didn't appear in 7 martial Hong Kong films as Tom Jones? I'm also not too sure that a single appearance on Stars in Their Eyes actually makes anyone "a houslehold name". I think most people who saw the episode would remember him as "that guy who did a really good Tom Jones". Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:32, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi Martinevans123, it would be an interesting thing as a Tom Jones sound a like Wang Yu fight alike. According to various news sources he became a household name after his first appearance. He also appeared in at least another episode, and also the very first Spanish version of the show. He had released a couple of vinyl LPs etc. Anyway before I undertake any project like that, research must be done. Sometimes it falls in my lap. Other times it takes time. Karl Twist (talk) 13:02, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Oh well, we can follow the sources (as long as they not nasty Hong Kong tabloids), I guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:05, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

"Associated acts"

In what way are "Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Janis Joplin, Bobby Darin, Glen Campbell, Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder" all "Associated acts"?? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:01, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

They aren't, by the definition of the template's documentation. I would have removed them without comment, and have now removed them from the article again. Graham87 07:16, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Doesn't seem in any way obvious. In fact, it's pretty much nonsense to say that these acts are associated.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:34, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. The guideline clearly says this: "This field is for professional relationships with other musicians or bands that are significant and notable to this artist's career." Martinevans123 (talk) 07:43, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Islands in the Stream - Comic Relief version

NEDOCHAN How can "Their version of the song, which was inspired by the fact that it had featured on Gavin & Stacey" be correct? If their version of the song had already featured on Gavin and Stacey, how could it have been inspired by that appearance? Looking at it again, when you said "their", I think you meant that the Comic Relief version, featuring Tom Jones, was inspired by the version sung by Rob Brydon and Ruth Jones that had previously appeared on Gavin and Stacey. I suggest this improved wording: "The Comic Relief version of the song, on which Tom Jones featured, was based on a version sung by Brydon and Jones in an episode of Gavin and Stacey." Deb (talk) 15:08, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

How about this?

The record, which was inspired by the song's having featured in an episode of Gavin and Stacey, was released in aid of Comic Relief and reached No. 1 in March 2009.NEDOCHAN (talk) 16:41, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes, okay. Deb (talk) 17:33, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Gotcha. Thanks NEDOCHAN (talk) 17:38, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

"I was born and brought up in...."

In Tom Jone's very own words, during the BBC coverage of 'One World: Together at Home' he states that he was born and brought up at 44 Laura Street, Treforest 'just outside' Pontypridd, Wales The following link to The Times piece of the 13th December 2015: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/time-and-place-sir-tom-jones-ldvpp375fgx has him stating the same. I could edit, but I don't think it is my place. CC1000. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.206.184.86 (talk) 18:05, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

In The Times interview, by Angela Wintle, he says merely "I grew up at 44 Laura Street, in Treforest.. " And that introduction to the One World: Together at Home song "Glory of Love" sounded a bit rushed. So maybe that was just a slip of the tongue from Jones? The existing sources are these:

1. Entry of Birth, sub-district of Pontypridd in the County of Glamorgan
2. Eggar, Robin. Tom Jones – The Biography. p. 14.

The Eggar book does not seem to be available on line and I do not have a copy. The original was published in 2000, by Headline, but there was another edition (ISBN 978-0747262473) dated 5 April 2001. The current reference gives no date or edition. Someone may be able to check the later edition. Perhaps the birth certificate would give the definitive answer? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:50, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

p.s. the 2009 Lucy Ellis book Tom Jones: Close Up, currently given as the source for his name, also has 25 Kingsland Terrace. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:52, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

early live

he stated singing when he was 11. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.207.199.163 (talk) 10:34, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Do you have a good source for that? The article just says "at an early age". Most British children start singing when they go to school, about the age of 5. Or maybe before then? I guess the article means singing "in a dedicated individual performance". Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:46, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

panty magnet

i know we shouldn't fill articles with this kind of fluff, but in this case, it is a MAJOR COMPONENT of his history/image. i didn't really know who he was before reading the article (some vague sense he was the british tony bennett), but i've long heard about women throwing their knickers at him. hell, benny hill even spoofed it in multiple sketches.

this is specific to him; u don't hear the same about bennett, sinatra, or even presley, really. it should be in the article. 2601:19C:527F:A660:4D75:817F:6D0F:6D51 (talk) 00:45, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 January 2023

Priscilla was Elvis’ wife, not daughter 108.51.103.27 (talk) 14:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done; thanks for the note. Graham87 14:33, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Not the same person

Note that this Tom Jones, the student who drowned last year in Worcester, is a different person. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:36, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

This Tom Jones did not die on August 12, 2023. That was Tom Jones the writer of the Fantasticks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.31.3.18 (talk) 01:50, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, I was also slightly shocked at the news, then did a quick Google search. The Tom Jones who recently passed away is most definitely not the subject of this related Wikipedia article. CorinthMaxwell (talk) 01:58, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2023

Birthdate needs to change to February 17th, 1928 70.109.134.179 (talk) 14:24, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done, Wrong Tom Jones. Graham87 14:47, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2023 (2)

For the lyricist and author of [The Fantasticks (film)], see Tom_Jones_(writer).

2601:188:CB81:CBC0:5582:BC3A:790B:FEB5 (talk) 14:39, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done, that strikes me as extreme recentism. Graham87 14:47, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 August 2023

Tom Johns dead today 08-13-2023 190.140.250.213 (talk) 00:05, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Wrong one; see above. Graham87 06:09, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 August 2023

Please add death date, replacing nothing.

Died August 12th, 2023

131.106.118.128 (talk) 21:30, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: The source you provided does not indicate it is about this individual. —C.Fred (talk) 21:48, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

References

More info

Career - Brick layer and worked in a factory 84.65.66.191 (talk) 19:02, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, this is mentioned in the Personal life section. Karst (talk) 08:54, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 June 2024

In the early life section it states that Tom Jones is primarily of English descent and then states that his grandmother is Welsh but his grandfather was English. This indicates that it is not accurate to state that he is primarily of English descent. Please remove that statement as it is inaccurate and contentious. Mckay1402 (talk) 06:55, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Not done; no, it doesn't say that. He has two grandfathers and two grandmothers like almost all people; three out of four of his grandparents are English. Graham87 (talk) 15:31, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

LOL. Sorry that is funny, though — Iadmc♫^talk  15:34, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Name

MOS:HYPOCORISM indicates that it is not always necessary to spell out why the article title differs from the name in the opening sentence. However, the examples provided concern variations in the first name(s), where the topic uses a diminutive version of their first name or a nickname. In this case, the surname varies – Jones is one of his middle names (his mother's maiden name). I think it was not immediately clear to the reader why he is referred to as "Jones" throughout the rest of the lead when his surname is clearly stated as "Woodward". I think MOS:HYPOCORISM does not apply as it not the name "Tom" (clearly a shortened version of Thomas) that is a possible source of confusion, but the surname. For this reason I have reinserted his professional name in the opening sentence. --Hazhk (talk) 11:37, 21 July 2024 (UTC)