Talk:Time 100: The Most Important People of the Century

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Time 100: The Most Important People of the Century article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
November 12, 2007	Articles for deletion	Kept

Magazines Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Magazines, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of magazines on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MagazinesWikipedia:WikiProject MagazinesTemplate:WikiProject Magazinesmagazine articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
See WikiProject Magazines' writing guide for tips on how to improve this article.

Journalism Low‑importance

	Journalism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Journalism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of journalism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JournalismWikipedia:WikiProject JournalismTemplate:WikiProject JournalismJournalism articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Awards Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Awards, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of awards and prizes on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AwardsWikipedia:WikiProject AwardsTemplate:WikiProject Awardsawards articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Duplicate articles?

Isn't TIME Magazine's 100 most influential people of the 20th century about the same thing this article is about? If so shouldn't these articles be merged? Or should both of these articles be merged into Time 100? Jason McHuff (talk) 04:28, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes the two 20th century articles are about the same thing. However the Time 100 article is different because it's a general overview of all the Time 100 lists. The 20th century articles refer specifically to the most important Time 100 list- the one that documented the most influential people of the 20th century.Slackergeneration (talk) 14:27, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Looks like an accidental content fork. And based on this reference, "most important" is the correct title, rather than "most influential." Further agree with Slacker that Time 100 should stay as a separate article; it is about an annual list in Time. Hult041956 (talk) 18:00, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I merged TIME Magazine's 100 most influential people of the 20th century into Time 100: The Most Important People of the Century and also redirected the former to the latter. Hult041956 (talk) 17:13, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The guy who created this list is trully an idiot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.151.244.167 (talk) 07:30, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with Image:Einstein TIME Person of the Century.jpg

The image Image:Einstein TIME Person of the Century.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --10:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism

No Dr Sun Yat Sen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.109.90.38 (talk) 05:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So where is the list?

Discussing a list of 100 most important people: might it make sense to ... er ... list the 100 people? Is there a copyright problem? Yes, I can click on over to Time magazine; it looks like I might be able to get the list there, one by one, clicking 100 times and reading ads. Not something I can do at the speed of my home internet. Jamesdowallen (talk) 12:51, 17 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's even worse than that. This wikipedia pages has a link to "The Complete List" at Time. That link not only doesn't have a completer list at all, but is the beginning of just the 2009 LIst. Obviously (and understandably) Time want lots of ad-views before divulging The 100. Wikipedia does not need to participate in this as Time's agent. Jamesdowallen (talk) 12:59, 17 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK: After clicking Edit page, I see mention of Copyright restriction. Nevertheless the links to Time magazine's website are useless: they all redirect to the advertisement page for the The 2009 List. I've removed those links, though a more knowledgeable Wiki editor will need to follow through with some more removals to avoid error flags. You're welcome. Jamesdowallen (talk) 13:17, 17 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I see the comment claiming that the list is copyrighted, but I don't agree. Copying the text with the list verbatim from Time Magazine's pages or website would be a copyright violation, yes. But the contents of the list itself are an uncopyrightable fact. Only the expression of that fact, in the form of the literal text written by Time Magazine, is copyrighted. I don't see a problem with publishing the list of persons itself, especially if it adds value by linking to the Wikipedia articles about the persons involved. Could a copyright lawyer please comment?Captain Chaos (talk) 13:59, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect. See Feist Publications v. Rural Telephone Service. Garion96 (talk) 21:36, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I think you're right. From the decision: "Although a compilation of facts may possess the requisite originality because the author typically chooses which facts to include, in what order to place them, and how to arrange the data so that readers may use them effectively, copyright protection extends only to those components of the work that are original to the author, not to the facts themselves." So while the names of the persons aren't copyrightable, the information about which persons to include is. I still think it's a bit hazy, but I guess it's better to err on the side of caution.Captain Chaos (talk) 17:16, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm unable to find the list anywhere online; I think time may not have it online. Links that claim to go there all redirect to the time 100 for 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.232.9.144 (talk) 09:12, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It can currently be found at http://205.188.238.181/time/time100/index_2000_time100.html. I'll add a link.Captain Chaos (talk) 13:59, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not including the list makes this article a non-starter. Who cares if person X or Publication Y thinks Z if you don't STATE what it is that they think? If Time wants this material copyrighted, secret, not suitable for public consumption, let's just delete the whole article. You might as well list the top 3 out of 100 microbes that human enamel thinks are most detrimental, failing to cite the source, and omitting the other 97. If this must exist, state that the list exists, but that it has been deemed unsuitable for publication, and don't include ANY listings. Time did Name Hitler man of the year in 1999. That should put their viewpoint in perspective - sensationalist media out for the buck. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.249.123.10 (talk) 16:57, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Things you aparently are misunderstanding:

Notability - The list is notable (it has significant coverage in independent reliable sources). As such, Wikipedia should have an article on it.
Copyright - The list is copyrighted so we cannot reproduce the list here. While an article on a list, book or album might a "non-starter" if you can't download the entire list, book or album from the article, we cannot violate copyright and keep the website up.
Time's Man/Person of the Year - Time selects the person who "for better or for worse, ...has done the most to influence the events of the year." (1999's person of the year was Jeff Bezos, not Hitler. Hitler was selected in 1938. Yeah, he did a lot that influenced events in that year. In 1999 they did decide that Hitler was not the person of the century.) Thanks. - SummerPhD (talk) 18:23, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I cam to this article with the same expectations as the other people above. This article should include the full list! Why does Wikipedia have no balls to just go ahead and does these things and sod the copyright holders. Wikipedia should not redirect us to Time's website or to any commercial website (especially one as shit as Time's where you have to click through countless pages to get the information you want, like many American websites). If Wikipedia wants more money from its users in future then it needs to stand up to copyright holders and tell them that they won't be getting takedowns in future and that an encyclopaedia is here to provide all information (and not just stuff that's not copyrighted). This is especially true today, the day before the start of over 200 protests across Europe in protest against the USA and copyright-holders' attempts to take over the Internet.--ЗAНИA ^talk ^{WB talk}] 20:26, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Brilliant. Just brilliant. We'll ignore copyright. Everything will be fantastic!... Until the courts turn Wikipedia, balls and all, over to the copyright holders. Then, not so fantastic anymore. It's the same reason the article on (insert name of popular album, movie or book here) doesn't include a freely downloadable copy of that work. - SummerPhD (talk) 02:53, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think they are saying ignore the copyright, but, like a lot of people apparently think, that the ability to claim the list breaks copyright, previous cases or not, is kind of a week argument. I'm not entirely sure TIME has the need or care to really go after Wikipedia for a fixable copyright infringement about an article from 1999. Two decades old articles are about as profitable as the phone book as the case above mentioned. And unless TIME explicitly yells at Wikipedia for infringement, you're essentially wasting people's time by preemptively removing the actual information of the article. If none of the list can be published then remove the mentions of Albert Einstein and Gandhi, as they are part of the original list. Or remove the article altogether. There are plenty of Wikipedia articles as well, such as "AFI's 100 Years...100 Heroes & Villains," that are lists of the information from an article that doesn't preclude the need to read the original. Adding the list here doesn't infringe the readers ability to question the placement and therefore the need to read the original source. UnknownM1 (talk) 05:30, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Though I understand the copyright reasons not to have the list, the lack of it makes the entire article moot. It basically is an advertisement to subscribe to Time. (Which let's be honest, lost it's merits long, long ago. "Something is happening, but you don't know what it is. Do you, Mr. Jones") You can see the list apparently only if you subscribe. Although I'm deeply curious who's on it, it actually offends me Time has this approach. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.172.23 (talk) 23:03, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

2014 re-add of the list

I think the COPYVIO argument is a red herring. The list comes from 100 different articles spread out over more than a year and written by a whole bunch of people. You can source the entire list without borrowing significant content from any of them. If this is considered COPYVIO, a whole lot of stuff on this project would also have be deleted. My understanding of COPYVIO on this project is that you need to copy large amounts of text directly from a single source in order for it to be copyvio. User:The Banner and others who allege this is COPYVIO have yet to produce said source. p b p 20:35, 24 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Correction of place where symposium started.

In the article, Time 100 see paragraph one (1) of History & format as it states: The list was started with a debate at a symposium in Washington, D.C., on February 1, 1998, with panel participants CBS news anchor Dan Rather…

In the article, Time 100: The Most Important People of the Century see paragraph two (2) of the article as it states: The idea for such a list started on February 1, 1998, with a debate at a symposium in Ha Noi, Vietnam. The panel participants were former CBS Evening News anchor Dan Rather…

2001:558:6033:6D:7079:A6A4:8186:45D7 (talk) 22:23, 12 November 2012 (UTC)Kenny Kaiser2001:558:6033:6D:7079:A6A4:8186:45D7 (talk) 22:23, 12 November 2012 (UTC) 2001:558:6033:6D:7079:A6A4:8186:45D7 (talk) 22:23, 12 November 2012 (UTC)security.kennyk@hotmail.com2001:558:6033:6D:7079:A6A4:8186:45D7 (talk) 22:23, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Terrible

Extended content

Anyone else agree this list is garbage?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.228.179.68 (talk • contribs) 02:17, 11 December 2012‎

Article talk pages are for discussing improvements to the article, not general discussion of the topic. - SummerPhD (talk) 13:04, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

elvis

Off topic chat

the fact that elvis doesn't

make the list makes a mockery of

the whole idea. you are always going to cause upset and debate with these sort of lists because when all said and done it's a matter of personal opinion. how though,can someone be left off the list when,if the people on the list were voting they would probably all vote for him above themselves and he influenced most of those on the list. ask youngsters now who they've heard of, most have heard of the beatles,all have heard of elvis. surely the most biased panellist must appreciate the enormous impact on the world someone has had when 37 years after they died there are over 85,000 people impersonating them,most of which are earning a good living. people who met him said he had more charisma than anyone they had ever met,oh and what a singer !!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.253.197.38 (talk) 21:44, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hitler and Mussolini responsible for World War Two?

Off topic chat
That's in dispute: https://archive.org/details/TruthForGermany --41.55.119.218 (talk) 14:12, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Who is on the list

The paragraph I have added does not violate copyright of the list, it just points out who is on the list.--2001:8003:6F2D:C900:3824:7922:5B8D:D44F (talk) 14:27, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The list itself is copyright protected. You should respect that and not try to circumvent that with unsourced listings. The Banner talk 11:06, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

When the paragraph will next appear

Just pointing out that the paragraph listing who else is on the list will be readded the day this page gets unlocked. Which ironically is on Christmas Day, another thing to get excited about. Now I'm expecting the Banner wn't like it, but just like how the Grinch learnt a lesson on Christmas day, I hope a message about FAIR FLIPPING USE will get through his thick skull.--2001:8003:6F2D:C900:486B:B06D:B2DC:C05D (talk) 10:26, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You make it painfully clear that you do not understand the principles of copyright and why it can be harmful to Wikipedia to violate these rules. The Banner talk 10:33, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And you are an idiot you know that, all around on Wikipedia pages we have summaries of movies, television shows, books that fall under copyright. As I've told you a bazillion times yes the list is copyright protected, if we were to post the list in the exact order, yes it can be harmful to Wikipedia (though you could send an e-mail a day to TIME telling them how Wikipedia pointed it out, I don't think they'd care much) but if we were to make a paragraph of those on the list, in alphabetical order, then it would fall under fair use.--2001:8003:6F2D:C900:486B:B06D:B2DC:C05D (talk) 10:41, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Even personal attacks will not remove the copyright. The Banner talk 10:04, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

But as was explained a bazillion gagillion times the list is copyright protected, if we were to post the list in the exact order, yes it can be harmful to Wikipedia (though you could send an e-mail a day to TIME telling them how Wikipedia pointed it out, I don't think they'd care much) but if we were to make a paragraph of those on the list, in alphabetical order, then it would fall under fair use. Wikipedia is filled with summaries of copyright protected movies and books but not one lawsuit has been made.--101.184.116.198 (talk) 00:32, 1 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the list again since, unfortunately, I think that it's still a copyright violation. See Wikipedia:Copyright in lists, which describes the issues. That page says that the law protects "compilations of things expressed as a value judgment"., which is exactly what Time's list of 100 people is. Re-ordering the list does not make enough difference, in my view, to avoid the copyright. Wham2001 (talk) 10:17, 1 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Full list

Pro tip: if anyone wants to see the full list, look at the previous edit history of this page, the full list has been added and removed numerous times. You're welcome. Snkn179 (talk) 01:25, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 4 July 2022

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

{{subst:trim|1=

REVOLUTIONARIES

David Ben-Gurion, Israel's first Prime Minister Winston Churchill, British Prime Minister Mohandas Gandhi, father of modern India Mikhail Gorbachev, Soviet reformer Adolf Hitler, German dictator Ho Chi Minh, first President of North Vietnam Pope John Paul II, religious leader Ayatullah R. Khomeini, leader of Iran's revolution Martin Luther King Jr., civil rights leader Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, founder of the Soviet Union Nelson Mandela, South African President Mao Zedong, leader of communist China Ronald Reagan, U.S. President Eleanor Roosevelt, U.S. First Lady Franklin Delano Roosevelt, U.S. President and New Deal architect Theodore Roosevelt, U.S. President and environmentalist Margaret Sanger, birth-control crusader Margaret Thatcher, British Prime Minister Unknown Tiananmen Square rebel Lech Walesa, Polish union organizer

ARTISTS & ENTERTAINERS

Louis Armstrong, jazz musician Lucille Ball, TV star The Beatles, rock musicians Marlon Brando, actor Coco Chanel, designer Charlie Chaplin, comic genius Le Corbusier, architect Bob Dylan, folk musician

BUILDERS & TITANS

Stephen Bechtel, construction magnate Leo Burnett, advertising genius Willis Carrier, maker of air-conditioning systems Walt Disney, creator of animation and multimedia empire Henry Ford, founder of Ford Motor Co. Bill Gates, co-founder of Microsoft A.P. Giannini, architect of nationwide banking Ray Kroc, hamburger meister Estee Lauder, cosmetics tycoon William Levitt, creator of suburbia Lucky Luciano, criminal mastermind Louis B. Mayer, Hollywood mogul Charles Merrill, advocate of the small investor Akio Morita, co-founder of Sony Walter Reuther, labor leader Pete Rozelle, football-league commissioner David Sarnoff, father of broadcasting Juan Trippe, aviation entrepreneur Sam Walton, Wal-Mart dynamo Thomas Watson Jr., IBM president

SCIENTISTS & THINKERS

Leo Baekeland, plastics pioneer Tim Berners-Lee, Internet designer Rachel Carson, environmentalist Albert Einstein, physicist Philo Farnsworth, inventor of electronic television Enrico Fermi, atomic physicist Alexander Fleming, bacteriologist Sigmund Freud, psychoanalyst Robert Goddard, rocket scientist Kurt Godel, mathematician Edwin Hubble, astronomer John Maynard Keynes, economist The Leakey Family, anthropologists Jean Piaget, child psychologist Jonas Salk, virologist William Shockley, solid-state physicist Alan Turing, computer scientist James Watson & Francis Crick, molecular biologists Ludwig Wittgenstein, philosopher The Wright Brothers, visionary aviators

HEROES & ICONS

Muhammad Ali, heavyweight boxing champion The American G.I., a soldier for freedom Diana, Princess of Wales Anne Frank, diarist and Holocaust victim Billy Graham , evangelist Che Guevara , guerrilla leader Edmund Hillary & Tenzing Norgay , conquerors of Mount Everest Helen Keller , champion of the disabled [[The Kennedys, dynasty Bruce Lee , actor and martial-arts star Charles Lindbergh , transatlantic aviator Harvey Milk , gay-rights leader Marilyn Monroe , actress Emmeline Pankhurst , suffragist Rosa Parks , civil rights torchbearer [[Pele, soccer star Jackie Robinson , baseball player Andrei Sakharov , Soviet dissident Mother Teresa , missionary nun Bill Wilson , founder of Alcoholics Anonymous

}} Varad bhave (talk) 20:46, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The original list is copyright protected. The Banner talk 21:10, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]