Talk:The Lost Tapes 2

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Requested move 17 July 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved — Amakuru (talk) 14:32, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Lost Tapes II → The Lost Tapes 2 – The album is titled The Lost Tapes 2 (emphasis added) on streaming services, not The Lost Tapes II. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 18:29, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment What about the cover art? It shows The Lost Tapes II on the tape. Ss112 09:19, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Ss112: The cover art is the only place that shows II as opposed to 2. Albums covers also takes styling liberties and don't always indicate an album's official title (see Blond). Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 15:11, 22 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment On Twitter, it's being referred to as The Lost Tapes 2 even by Nas. EGorodetsky (talk) 18:47, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums/Album_article_style_advice#Naming; "If the album title uses the Latin alphabet, the article name should be at that title." Blackjays1 (talk) 01:20, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Blackjays1: I don't think you understand but that's not the case here. I'm not trying to render the II as a 2. The 2 is in the actual title of this album. See Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, and even the artist himself. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 15:11, 22 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I understand. But aside from those 3 streaming services and Nas's typing (which you simply can't draw a conclusion from), there are more publications that call it The Lost Tapes II — The Independent, Spin, NME, Pitchfork, AllMusic, Exclaim!, etc. — taken from the first 3 pages of this Google search Blackjays1 (talk) 00:04, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Blackjays1: There are plenty of publications that call it The Lost Tapes 2 – Rolling Stone,^[1] Billboard,^[2] Complex,^[3] Highsnobiety,^[4] Uproxx,^[5] XXL,^[6] NME (which you listed),^[7] etc... Amazon has it listed as The Lost Tapes 2^[8] and so does Nas' official webstore.^[9] If we had to decide between the two stylings, I think it's clear which one should be used. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 00:39, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So we have practically the same number of publications that call it The Lost Tapes 2 as we do The Lost Tapes II, and we have an artist who has it on his website as The Lost Tapes 2, but has it on his album cover as The Lost Tapes II — it seems that we've reached a bit of a stalemate here. Indeed, it's looking like there will be no consensus formed here, as there simply isn't anything that overwhelmingly necessitates changing the title. Blackjays1 (talk) 01:22, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Blackjays1: We don't have the same number of publications, I chose to stop listing... You also neglected that every online store and streaming service has the album listed as The Lost Tapes 2. Since when was cover art a deciding factor in recognizing an album's actual title? – Have you heard of Frank Ocean's blond or Blonde? Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 03:12, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

To add, read WP:JDL, which states oppose moves such as "There is no consensus for this" to be non-constructive. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 22:49, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies. I wasn't trying to come off as "non-constructive", I just felt that we reached a point in our discussion where I needed to point out that coming to any consensus on this will be tough to do. With that said, I fully support keeping The Lost Tapes 2 as a redirect. Blackjays1 (talk) 22:58, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Blackjays1: It's all good. I was also hoping you'd see the table of sources listed below so that some sort of consensus could be reached, and hopefully quickly. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 23:25, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source	2 or II ?	Notes
Reliable sources	Both	List above / in references
Music charts	The Lost Tapes 2	Rolling Stone and Billboard both use the 2.
Nas himself	The Lost Tapes 2
Nas' label Mass Appeal	The Lost Tapes 2
Nas' label Def Jam	The Lost Tapes 2	Even has the 2 at Times Square.
Streaming	The Lost Tapes 2	Includes Apple Music, Spotify, Tidal, and YouTube.
Cover art	The Lost Tapes II	But is cover art always indicative of an album's title? No.

The cover art and some publications style it as The Lost Tapes II, but I think the actual title of the album is apparent. Though the difference between II and 2 is not much, we could simply move the article to its real title and there'd be no issue. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 03:12, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@NasLegacy: Don't remove the move request template from the article please. This move request is still ongoing. Thank you. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 02:21, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Consistent with most sources; album art is not much of a source. Dicklyon (talk) 20:17, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support The WP:COMMONNAME seems like a very close call - looking at reviews, for example, it seems to be virtually a 50:50 split. Given lack of a clear common name, I think it's reasonable to use primary sources/WP:OFFICIALNAME as a tiebreaker. In that respect, I think the evidence for "2" is more convincing (Billboard charts, streaming services, the artist and his label vs. just the cover art, which, as others have pointed out, can often feature artistic stylizations that differ from how the title is rendered in all other contexts).Colin M (talk) 22:05, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Nas Gathers Unreleased Tracks for Long-Awaited 'Lost Tapes 2'". Rolling Stone.
^ "Nas Announces 'The Lost Tapes 2' Release Date". Billboard.
^ "Here's Nas' 'The Lost Tapes 2' Project". Complex.
^ "Preorder Nas' 'The Lost Tapes 2' Featuring Kanye West, Pharrell, RZA & More". Highsnobiety.
^ "Nas Displays His Best And Worst Tendencies On 'The Lost Tapes 2'". Uproxx.
^ "HERE'S EVERYTHING WE KNOW ABOUT NAS' 'THE LOST TAPES 2′ ALBUM". XXL.
^ "Nas announces release date for 'The Lost Tapes 2'". NME.
^ "The Lost Tapes 2 [Explicit]". Amazon.
^ "THE LOST TAPES 2 DIGITAL ALBUM". Nas – Official Store.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

[1] "Nas Gathers Unreleased Tracks for Long-Awaited 'Lost Tapes 2'". Rolling Stone.

[2] "Nas Announces 'The Lost Tapes 2' Release Date". Billboard.

[3] "Here's Nas' 'The Lost Tapes 2' Project". Complex.

[4] "Preorder Nas' 'The Lost Tapes 2' Featuring Kanye West, Pharrell, RZA & More". Highsnobiety.

[5] "Nas Displays His Best And Worst Tendencies On 'The Lost Tapes 2'". Uproxx.

[6] "HERE'S EVERYTHING WE KNOW ABOUT NAS' 'THE LOST TAPES 2′ ALBUM". XXL.

[7] "Nas announces release date for 'The Lost Tapes 2'". NME.

[8] "The Lost Tapes 2 [Explicit]". Amazon.

[9] "THE LOST TAPES 2 DIGITAL ALBUM". Nas – Official Store.

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