Talk:The Game Awards 2021

Separation of Xbox and Bethesda nominations

There have been conflicting opinions and, as a result, edits relating to if Xbox Game Studios and Bethesda Softworks nominations should be considered together in the Nominations by publisher table. There's some reason to go either way.

Separating them would, to some degree, fit seeing as Wikipedia has had a similar situation for a long time with the Emmys. Hulu and Disney+ are listed separately (though as long as Disney is not the sole owner of Hulu this isn't a very accurate comparison), FX and Disney+ are listed separately, HBO and HBO Max are listed separately, NBC and Peacock are listed separately, and CBS and Showtime are listed separately (and likely CBS, Showtime, and Paramount+ will remain listed separately in the future).

However, these rankings have rarely if ever been given official attention by the awards organizers themselves. On the other hand, The Game Awards have made this list official through their official social media accounts, as seen in this tweet here - https://twitter.com/thegameawards/status/1460657164083679240, where they've combined Xbox and Bethesda. And, quite differently to this list, they relate to the channel/platform the shows are available on, not their distributors. For example, Warner Bros. Television-produced The Kominsky Method is considered a Netflix nomination. This would be closer to games being considered Windows/Xbox/PlayStation/Nintendo/etc. nominations, which is completely different to the list in question. I would personally argue that we should consider the official list the correct one and thus combine Xbox and Bethesda, however I am open to hearing arguments against going with what the organizers consider the correct list to be.

Pinging relevant editors to this discussion @Rhain, Masem, Iguanadude626, and YannickFran: SharkyIzrod (talk) 15:07, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

It's just that on the cover, Xbox Game Studios has nothing to do with the publishing of Deathloop - Bethesda inked all said deals for PS exclusivity before the ZeniMax merger; it just so happens that when it came time to actually publish and bring in sales, Bethesda is operating out of MS. This probably points out that (after a lot of review of the merger) that ZeniMax publishing still operates as a separate entity from the Xbox Game Studios publishing, though as you move up the corporate tree, they will fall under the same group at Microsoft. In contrast to that Kominsky Method example, Netflix still paid for production costs that were then executed by WB TV, so they clearly have a foot in the door for why they would be nominated. It would be different if, for example, Netflix was credited with Breaking Bad when all they have there were distribution rights. --Masem (t) 15:26, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

As noted below, we don't make the distinction for EA either. Yes, Xbox Game Studios Publishing and Bethesda Softworks are 2 seperate entities, but both are a part of Xbox Game Studios. Saying that Deathloop wasn't published under "Xbox Game Studios" is the same thing as saying that Microsoft didn't release the Xbox Series X, but Xbox did. The distinction between Xbox Game Studios and its subsidiary is entirely artificial here. Bethesda Softworks is just listed among all other Xbox Game Studios studios on its website, Microsoft calls them a single entity, Wikipedia lists them as "Xbox Game Studios", The Game Awards themselves list them as a single entity, and so should this page. --YannickFran (talk) 19:40, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

The official nominations list [1] specifically listed Bethesda (and only Bethesda) as the publisher of Deathloop. While I know that a tweet from TGA's official account grouped them, we go by how they are listed on the official awards. --Masem (t) 20:00, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Bethesda Softworks published Deathloop; Xbox Game Studios played zero role in the publishing of the game. We have sources verifying this. Naming Xbox Game Studios as the publisher would be like naming Tencent as the publisher of League of Legends, or Sony Group Corporation as the publisher of Returnal; they're the parent company of the actual publisher, but that doesn't mean they published the game. If you're going to make a comparison to the Emmys (which is a bit of a false equivalence): the Emmys article listing Warner Bros. Television would be equivalent to this article listing Bethesda Game Studios for Deathloop or Insomniac Games for Ratchet & Clank—they're the producer/developer, not the network/publisher. Also, even the "official" list from Twitter is wrong, with several incorrect counts. – Rhain ☔ 15:29, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

If EA sport is not separate from Electronic Arts, why should Bethesda be separate from Xbox Games Studios? The only thing I see here are Sony fanboys trying to make their company first, stop manipulating Wikipedia. 85.136.82.223 (talk) 18:29, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

The FIFA situation is a little more complex, as Electronic Arts is named the publisher in the lead of FIFA 22 and on the game's cover—if there's consensus, that can be changed. The claim of "Sony fanboys" is ridiculous, unconstructive, and in bad faith; the reverse could easily be said about "Xbox fanboys", but we're assuming good faith here. The only reason Sony is listed first is because S comes before X in the alphabet. – Rhain ☔ 23:07, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Redundant markers

"Winners are listed first, highlighted in boldface, and indicated with a double dagger (double-dagger)." We do we need all of that? Wasn't listing first (and maybe bold) enough already? Why do we need to go to this redundant level? - Theodorethebear (talk) 02:31, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

I'll ping @Rhain: but I think that it is an issue with screen readers, which do not reader bold text, but will render the double-cross. --Masem (t) 03:35, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, most screen readers don't indicate text attributes like bold or italics, so those are discouraged per MOS:ACCESS. The double-dagger was specifically created for accessibility purposes, and is used in these types of lists. – Rhain ☔ 04:48, 31 January 2022 (UTC)