Talk:Stuffing box

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Merge discussion

I am suggesting that this article be merged with Gland (engineering) as, apart form the electrical usage, I think the terms are virtually synonymous. Globbet (talk) 21:33, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose The terms have a lot of overlap, but stuffing box is IMHO far narrower. It's only used in one or two fields, is generally anachronistic, refers specifically to the type that can be compressed onto a soft packing, and it certainly doesn't have the other meanings (i.e. static electrical seals) that gland does. As we have two articles that are well linked, there seems little scope for confusion. Stuffing box is also the larger article at present, so there's an issue of WP:UNDUE, unless gland was to be expanded quite a bit first. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:44, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the three terms: groove, gland and stuffing box could all be accused of having the same meaning. Check out the Wikipedia entry for "Groove (machining)". It would be best to clean up the way Wikipedia handles all three of these, so that overlap and non-overlap are properly described. As it is, Wikipedia says a gland is a type of stuffing box, and a stuffing box is a type of gland. This is a circular definition. --Westwind273 (talk) 22:50, 4 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I looked. Groove (machining) is not relevant. Globbet (talk) 23:42, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the aerospace industry, the words groove and gland are used fairly interchangeably. For example the grooves for the seals of the hydraulic actuators on the wing control surfaces are often called glands. I think this is also true of other industries. --Westwind273 (talk) 06:33, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Westwind, I've never heard the two used interchangeably and I'm not in the aerospace industry. Wizard191 (talk) 13:36, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Andy - I agree. 'Gland', as a term is far too general, and its meaning varies far too much between industries for smaller articles such as this to be merged into it. 'Stuffing box', as a term, refers only to what is shown in this article or variants thereupon, and this in itself should guarantee stuffing box its own article. I have experience in aeronautics, marine and the electronic industries and whilst coming across many interpretations of 'Gland', this is the only thing that I have come across called a 'Stuffing Box'. 202.89.175.115 (talk) 09:32, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am not advocating merger. I am just advocating a clear Wikipedia explanation of the overlap and distinction between groove, gland, and stuffing box. In certain situations I think all three may overlap. For an example of "gland" meaning "groove", see the 5th pdf page of http://www.logwell.com/tech/O-ring/Parker_Handbook.pdf , Section 1.2 "The seal assembly consists of an elastomer O-ring and a gland..." It is fairly obvious that they are talking about a groove for an o-ring. --Westwind273 (talk) 05:25, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Westwind, that's a good reference. Why don't you add a note to the groove (machining) and Gland (engineering) article noting their interchangeability in o-ring applications? Wizard191 (talk) 12:13, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with the statement that 'stuffing box', as a term, refers only to what is shown in this article. Here is a web page where the author is clearly using 'stuffing box' to refer to the groove for a seal in a centrifugal pump: http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/06-html/6-11.html (The use of 'stuffing box' starts in mid-page.) The truth of the matter is that, depending on the industry, gland and stuffing box can both be used to mean groove. --Westwind273 (talk) 04:23, 13 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Circular Definition

This article starts off saying a stuffing box is a kind of gland. The gland article starts off saying a gland is a kind of stuffing box. Can someone fix this circular definition? They can't both be a type of the other; that is illogical. --Westwind273 (talk) 23:29, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

After the most recent edits, "a stuffing box is an assembly which is used to house a gland seal", and "a gland is a general type of stuffing box." So by extension, a stuffing box is an assembly which is used to house a stuffing box. What kind of sense does that make? --Westwind273 (talk) 08:35, 13 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A stuffing box consists of two pieces that may be pulled together to form a tight seal. A gland, as used in engineering, is an annular ring cut into a shaft or its housing into which an O-ring is inserted. The difference is critical to the discussion. Multiple rings of graphite greased flax can be "stuffed" adjacent to each other and "compressed" as needed. An O-ring is deformed by the shaft passing it and reformed though the action of the fluid that is held behind it. A "gland" in this instance will almost always have square corners and hold a single O-ring as two adjacent O-rings will deform and fail. Stuffing can be increased by a turn or two to compensate for wear.

Stuffing boxes are used on boats, pumps, and in the oil industry to prevent leakage past a "wire-line".

There is a good patent drawing here http://www.google.com/patents?id=v5MuAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA2&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false in which the difference is clearly described.

The second image of a stuffing box, referenced on the page is a broken link. I suggest this public domain patent drawing be extracted to replace it http://www.google.com/patents/US2689145 Pendare (talk) 14:04, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You describe one (specialised?) definition of a gland. There are plenty of others. Globbet (talk) 14:51, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct. A Gland in biology 'secretes'. In engineering the moveable flat surface facing the low pressure side of the packing material in a compression style stuffing box with minor leakage for lubrication is called a 'gland'. A gland then is not a stuffing box for when a 'gland' is spoken of in conjunction with an O-ring it no longer is moveable and the leakage may be nonexistent. Paraphrased the dictionaries tend to agree that a gland 'in engineering' is a device that prevents fluid passage across a low to high pressure boundary, the facing plate on the low pressure side of a stuffing box, or the cross piece of a bayonet clutch.

Visiting a few patents I note that a 'gland' is at the low pressure side of the stuffing in a stuffing box and the nuts, bolts, flange, and other elements forming or attached to the movable plug are often prefixed with the word gland. A stuffing box is not a gland but a gland always forms one end of a stuffing box. But...

A stuffing box is an adjustable seal designed to maintain a pressure differential and allow controlled minor lateral leakage along a cylindrical rotating shaft. It is plugged at its low pressure end with a removable and adjustable gland follower, same required to regulate packing friction on the shaft and leakage rate of lubricant.

A major usage of stuffing boxes is in centrifugal slurry pumps in which lubricating water is often injected through the gland to prevent shaft erosion from the particulate content of slurry leakage via 'two body wear' and 'three body wear'. A gland seal is sometimes said to contain an Annular stuffing box. Wow, my statement above is reversed. I suspect this is a British colloquialism. 'Weir Minerals Ltd.' and 'Halliburton Services Inc.' have exploded view advertizing materials available on Centrifugal slurry pumps and in the case of Halliburton, high pressure piston, pumps for use with a slurry but I have not compared their documents, instead I have used this thesis as my primary external source. -- "Slurry Pump Gland Seal Three Body Wear and the Influence of Particle Properties including Hardness, Size, Fracture Toughness and Shape"(Jan 2010) by Nigel Ian Ridgway. Unfortunately the copy available on the web may contain proprietary information and many drawing have been left out. Definitions given without quotes are mine based on a review of multiple sources. Pendare (talk) 21:40, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This: Spooner, Henry J. (1913). Machine Design, Construction and Drawing (3^rd ed.). London (New York, Bombay & Calcutta): Longmans, Green & Co. throws some light on Westwind273's problem. Parts are named on page 56. In the case of a reciprocating steam engine, for example, stuffing box is applied both to the whole sealing arrangement and to the annular space into which the packing fits. The gland is the moving piece which retains and compresses the packing.

Confusingly, as I understand it, marine terminology has a stern tube that is fitted with a stern gland, which may be in the form of a stuffing box, in which case it will have a gland.

Similarly, a cable gland is the whole electrical fitting. Globbet (talk) 23:01, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some web pages you may find interesting: http://www.tss.trelleborg.com/wiki/Groove , http://www.tss.trelleborg.com/wiki/Gland , and also page 4 of the document at http://www.parker.com/literature/Mobile%20Cylinder/HY18-0014%20Standard%20Build%20REV%20C.pdf --Westwind273 (talk) 22:55, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]