Talk:Stripped Classicism

A fact from Stripped Classicism appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 27 February 2015 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Stripped Classicism is an architectural style used in several countries, including the United States, Nazi Germany, and Stalin's USSR?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2015/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Stripped Classicism.

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WP:DYK

Stripped Classicism is a brand new article. If we can work together to make it long enough (I need your help), I would be pleased to nominate it for a WP:DYK, and list all the contributors as creators. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:59, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm very happy to see the creation of Stripped Classicism as an article. I have a substantive question, though, about the distinctions among Stripped Classicism, PWA Moderne, and Greco Deco. It's possible that those three styles are names for the same general thing. If that's true, wouldn't it make sense to consolidate the three articles into one? It's also possible that the three styles are different. If that's true, those differences should be identified, written up and sourced. My own view is that the three categories overlap this way:

Stripped Classicism is the oldest, broadest and most serious category of these three. Quite right that the approach goes back in Germany to at least 1912 and Peter Behrens. Maybe further back to Schinkel in 1830s. In Cret's career you can also see a throughline from the very French Ecole des Beaux-Arts tradition he was trained in around 1900. This makes Stripped Classicism a European thing, not just an American thing.

PWA Moderne coined by Gebhardt is (afaic) specific to government-funded buildings in the United States during the Depression, and an American subset of Stripped Classicism. You wouldn't put an Australian or a Canadian building in that category.

Greco Deco seems more a description of ornamental style than architectural style. When I think of Greco Deco I think of a specific uncomfortable kitschy fascinating mesh of streamlined forms and archaic imagery. I'd want to revisit James M. Goode's coinage of the term (or email him! I think I still have his email somewhere) to figure out how that work relates to Stripped Classicism.

In any case, I'd like to get some more clarity on these three categories before going full-bore expanding this article. Because.... somebody is bound to complain about it. (Actually, they'll complain in any case.) --Lockley (talk) 21:44, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also a little curious on the distinction (or if there is one) between stripped classicism and starved classicism? Some sources I found describe them separately and others seem to treat them as interchangeable. At first blush it seems like starved classicism is usually applied more narrowly to somewhat spare looking American buildings from the 1930s while stripped classicism (as Lockley says) is discussed as a much longer standing tradition.

I also found some references crediting the term "starved classicism" to Louis Craig, Director of the Federal Architecture Project for the National Endowment of the Arts in the 1960s. Seems to further reinforce the idea that the term is more germane for the American examples...?--Nsteffel (talk) 22:37, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Consolidating may be the way to go in the long run. But it will undoubtedly hamper what could be a fairly straight forward DYK nomination, so I think we should further explore that subject after we get the DYK. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 22:42, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We are (opinion) operating in a fringe area here, talking about buildings and styles and movements that have not been very well defined in the peer reviewed arena. However, I oppose attempting to combine the three mentioned articles because, at least as I think about and use the terms, they are different, but with a fair degree of overlap. It is uncomfortable for me to think about defining greco deco as the style of ornament used on stripped classical buildings which in tern is described as classic buildings with the ornament removed. Similarly I would not be happy about describing a building designed by Albert Speer as being PWA Moderne. I will be interested in seeing what James Goode (a click on this link quickly reveals another article that needs to be done) has to say because he, at least in my life, walks on water. In my poking around I've discovered that a US government web site in describing a building, uses the term "Stripped Classical" (I think even with capitols) , but separating that from "starved classicism" could get tricky. The fact (yet another word that means "in my opinion") is, these are all terms that someone might come across and come to wikipedia to get clarified and let's give them at least something to go on. Let's be bold, post-a-way and see what happens. Carptrash (talk) 15:52, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I need good ideas for a WP:DYK hook. We are now over 2,500 characters, which I think meets the minimum at DYK. Anything you can add will help, however. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:30, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A good source

We are at about 1400 characters, and need about 100 more. This has lots of sources, including newspaper articles, to add to the mix. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:44, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We are now over 2,500 characters, which I think meets the minimum at DYK. Anything you can add will help, however. Onward and upward. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:45, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There comes a time

when I must admit failure, and after 8 attempts to create a table with Name, Image, Location, Date, Architect and Notes fields, I have reached that point. If someone else wants to try, I have used the Eccles Building as my first attempt, my first through eighth humiliating failures. I might try to get User:BoringHistoryGuy, who is a wizard at them, to give it a shot, but if anyone here would like to try, it should get us the necessary characters (see above). Carptrash (talk) 17:41, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I put in a link to Commons and it goes to the wrong place

It should be going to Stripped Classical architecture 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:25, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've fixed that, but I wonder whether this entire article shouldn't be moved to Stripped Classicist architecture, following the precedents set by, say, Neoclassical architecture or Colonial Revival architecture. Huon (talk) 21:12, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Architectural archive

Lots of articles on Stripped Classicism around the world here at the Archipaedia- archive. Great stuff. I have not mined these yet. Invite you all to do a preemptive strike. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:07, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just getting into JSTOR and just found the Oregon State Capitol listed as SC. Fun!Carptrash (talk) 21:19, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Added citations, which could be used to add more facts. I also did the DYK nomination as promised. Bon appetit! 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:52, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Links to this article

The article is underlinked. I suggest we all make an effort to find appropriate places to link to it. If there are other relevant templates beyond those I just added, they should be edited accordingly. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 02:20, 8 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Could folks

take a look at ANZAC War Memorial and help decide if it fits. it is slathered with amazing art deco sculpture by Rayner Hoff, but remove that and you have a pretty stripped class act. What do you think? Add it to the gallery or not? Carptrash (talk) 17:50, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. In its essentials it looks to fit. Photo illustrates the stripped classicism, even though there are the Art Deco architecture highlights. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:21, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Could I suggest that instead of the ANZAC War Memorial, you use the National Library of Australia mentioned in the text. The War Memorial is a very famous Art Deco building, so that using it here would "muddy the waters" I think, whereas, the National Library is a clearer exemplar. See Commons category: National Library of Australia. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 21:42, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I will happily accept Whiteghost.ink's friendly amendment. My understanding of Australian architecture could fit in a thimble with no problem, however I do know about Rayner Hoff, in fact I seem to have started his article about 10 years ago. But I digress. So I'll look at this other building and see what can be done in terms of getting it into the table. Any other ideas? I have a few German examples, but since the books were published by the Nazis, I am a bit unsure of the copyright issues. Life. Who knew? Carptrash (talk) 01:22, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well that lasted about 9 minutes. The Australian National Library is NOT an example of Stripped Classicism. It is a 1968 building in a style sometimes called "New Formalism" - Edward Durell Stone being the major American proponent of it. It is discussed here, along with stripped classicism, in a section I need to read, having just discovered it. Any other ideas? Carptrash (talk) 01:35, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry folks. I knew when it was built but it seemed fairly stripped (classically speaking) to me! It is more difficult than we think, eh? Whiteghost.ink (talk) 02:15, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think one of the sources called it a revival of stripped classicism. I'm not saying that is WP:Truth, but as I recall it is in a WP:RS. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 03:35, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Marcus Wiffen says about the New Formalism style, "All (buildings in the style} admire and imitate the past, showing a catholicity of taste that forbids one to classify the movement as a second Neo-Classical revival, as is tempting perhaps at first glance"^[1]

^ Wiffen, Marcus, American Architecture Since 1780: A Guide to the Styles, The M.I.T. Press, Cambridge Massachusetts, 1969

Carptrash (talk) 15:58, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Perish the thought. Marcus Wiffen has forbade it. Can't have attachment to the past. Lest the fact that this is in type gets in the way, I am being Ironic. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:03, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wiffen, in my book, is a critic in every sense of the word , , , , usual the last word. I was being bit catty myself, so irony is a perfectly appropriate style of reply. However I am considering a New Formalism (architecture) article, not to be confused with New Formalism, of course. Carptrash (talk) 17:10, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If we're going with his classification, We could have a section that compares and contrasts. Except for the temporal aspect, do you really see a difference? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:23, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I see a large difference. Stripped classical tend to be heavy and gray and squat (even when tall) and squarish while New Formalist tend to be light and airy and sometimes employ arches (flatfish Tudor ones) Compare Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts with say Theodore Levin United States Courthouse. If this is what we are discussing. Carptrash (talk) 17:38, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Touché! Well illustrated. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:53, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Meanwhile, New Formalism (architecture) is about two clicks away from being a really crummy stub, mostly the dreaded cut and paste, so stay tuned. Carptrash (talk) 18:12, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User:Hafspajen left some links on my talk page. Please go there to see them, as one involved a black-listed sight and I can't insert it here (I tried). And also these Philip Johnson, https://chicagomodern.wordpress.com/2012/06/14/finding-chicagos-hidden-modern-gems/ http://www.chimodern.com/a-tresure-trove-of-20th-century-art-resurrection-cemetery-mausoleum/ 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:54, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

When was the term first used?

Nothing about this, and surely only used later by historians. It has a rather critical feel. Cret called his style "New classicism", and similar terms were used by the actual architects in the style. Johnbod (talk) 15:28, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My guess (i.e. opinion) is the 1980s, but looking around I found it used on a NRHP application ( http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NHLS/Text/89000932.pdf) for the Pentagon in about 1989. After I am done with a month of eye surgery I will be (I hope) better equipped to engage in this sort of search. It is a good question and should be answered. Carptrash (talk) 17:59, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that chimes with what I felt looking at google. All best wishes for your treatment! Johnbod (talk) 18:12, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Very interesting. I wonder what the German equivalent of "stripped classicism" is. Horst-schlaemma (talk) 15:50, 11 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Been adding examples

I've added the San Francisco Mint and Dauphin County Courthouse to the notable examples section. I have more examples and I plan to add them. Do we have a limit on how many notable examples we want? Additionally there is a Stripped Classicism category and I have added both of those buildings to it. You folks may want to add the category to other examples.The Oaked Ridge (talk) 00:51, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

New examples

How do you guys feel about posting newer examples? Off the top of my head I can think of the Ronald Reagan Building (1998) and perhaps the Chapman Cultural Center (2007) and Schermerhorn Symphony Center (2003) of David M. Schwarz Architects .The Oaked Ridge (talk) 03:17, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

this article, this style, is really something that happened in the 1930s and 1940s. Your Texas building (1950s) barely qualifies (in my opinion) though it does look like it fits right in. The 21st Century examples really are (again opinion) something else, "post modern stripped classical", or "Neo neoclassical", who knows? It is not so much for us to decide what goes here as it is for some published source. Find some architectural historian calling these "stripped classical" and we need to rethink a few things and make the changes. The Schermerhorn is probably a bit ornate in any case (yet another term for "my opinion"). Carptrash (talk) 15:18, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Here some information about the architect of the Texas building: https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fad25

Seems like he did most of his more famous work in the 30s and that might explain why the building was a bit of a throwback at the time of its completion.The Oaked Ridge (talk) 01:53, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Carleton W. Adams evidently deserves his own Wikipedia article. Carleton W. Adams Texas State Historical Association. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 11:17, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Here are three relevant article on the Reagan Building:

I think it works in the context of this building, even though it has modern highlights and medallions as art. But that's just my opinion. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:47, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Old Parliament House, Canberra

The Wikipedia article on Old Parliament House describes it as an example of Stripped Classicism. Is this correct and should it be added as an example in this article? Jaxcab (talk) 09:33, 27 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Wiffen, Marcus, American Architecture Since 1780: A Guide to the Styles, The M.I.T. Press, Cambridge Massachusetts, 1969

[1]