Talk:Statesman

Move

I moved the disambiguation page over the article page and archived the talk. There is no content that belongs at politician, the AfD is a flawed close IMHO, as there is no reason we can't have an article on Statesmen or Statesmanship. It is interesting to see how fluffy the usage of the term has become, being used as "an elected official who does their job". Rich Farmbrough, 12:53, 10 March 2012 (UTC).

Old article

--cut here--

A statesman is usually a politician or other notable public figure who has had a long and respected career in politics or government at the national and international level. As a term of respect, it is usually left to be used to supporters or commentators. When politicians retire, they are often referred to as elder statesmen.

Statesmanship also conveys a quality of leadership that organically brings people together and of eldership, a spirit of caring for others and for the whole.

The words statesman or stateswoman are applied loosely to any head of state, any senior political figure, or anyone who in a given moment exhibits a certain quality of statesmanship.

As it relates to American history, "statesman" represents an individual, who after being elected to office, holds firm to their oath to defend and uphold the US Constitution within their duty as an elected official.

References

--cut here--

For reference. Rich Farmbrough, 14:20, 11 March 2012 (UTC).

Talk:Statesman/old

The previous version of this article, which was kept at AfD (with suggestion to merge) and then deleted by Rich Farmbrough, has been restored to Talk:Statesman/old, so that anyway who wants to can merge the page as decided at the AfD, with a proper history link. Alternatively, everyone who wants to can move the current Statesman page back to a disambiguation page, and then move Talk:Statesman/old back to Statesman. Fram (talk) 12:50, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 15 November 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. No such user (talk) 09:26, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

---

Statesman → Statesperson – Per the article Businessperson, and many other articles which have gender-neutral titles, Statesperson is more appealing to neutral point of view per WP:NPOV.

I know that WP:COMMONNAME contradicts this move, but 'Statesman' is inaccurate and discriminatory because there are politicians and statespersons who are non-binary (see Category:Non-binary politicians. — CrafterNova ^{[ TALK ] [ CONT ]} 18:57, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per common name, n-grams showing usage. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:20, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. This is a dabpage. The topics on this page are all named "Statesman". Statesperson could work as a primary redirect to Politician, but that's a discussion for WP:RfD, not here. 162 etc. (talk) 22:07, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose considering every entry is titled Statesman I don’t see how changing the title to the name of this dab page to one not used by any of the articles is justified. Also, due to the fact that there doesn’t appear to be any other article titled statesperson the idea of going to WP:RFD to suggest having it redirect to politician is likely the better option.--65.92.162.81 (talk) 22:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Rreagan007 (talk) 06:29, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose To put it simply, this proposal makes no sense. Not a SINGLE list entry on the DAB page is titled "statesperson". This just doesn't make any sense. InfiniteNexus (talk) 06:35, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
• Comment I think this would make sense to have a gender neutral title for the article I am currently drafting at Draft:Statesman, which would be about the political position. For the current disambiguation page, I think it could be a redirect to the gender neutral version, but the disambiguation page should be kept at "Statesman" since the newspapers and such are simply named like that. PhotographyEdits (talk) 08:27, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

• PhotographyEdits, your draft name seems correct as it stands, "Statesman" is gender neutral and per n-grams is the correct word when referring to gender (please see the n-gram above for 'Stateman' and 'Statesperson', thanks). The 2012 discussion listed above, which merged 'Statesman' to 'Politician' seems applicable to your draft title as well. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:12, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

  On the Simple English Wikipedia quite a few things have been written about it, I think the article can be extended even more. I'm willing to reopen that the discussion again because WP:CCC. PhotographyEdits (talk) 11:52, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Who on earth says "statesperson"? That's ignoring the fact that this is actually a disambiguation page for things called Statesman. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:17, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

  Maybe you don't, but it's in the Oxford dictionary: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/statesperson PhotographyEdits (talk) 15:01, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

  Being in a dictionary doesn't mean it's commonly used! -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:34, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.