Talk:Sons of Anarchy/Archive 1

Archive 1

Hamlet

I just noticed that there is a bit of a semblance between Jax, his mother and her new lover, and hamlet claudius and his mother. Also the dead fathers which "haunt" the son's thoughts. It might not be worth a mention in the article but it is quite interesting —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.211.237.140 (talk) 18:55, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I've added some of the Hamlet information, though as the show progresses it might be worth adding a Hamlet section. The Ron Perlman quote that I added suggests that the show will keep its link to the play throughout the series. --SupermanML (talk) 01:27, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll admit that I'm partial to the Hamlet link to the show... but that said, I'm wondering if it would be worth moving the Hamlet paragraph to a higher point in the article, perhaps as one of the first few paragraphs in the story section. Thoughts? SupermanML (talk) 02:43, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't the "Shakespearean Influence" Section Be titled "Literary Influence", or something similar? A more general title seems more appropriate for sections, As it's more applicable to similar articles, and would be more uniform. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.192.9 (talk) 01:53, 7 May 2010 (UTC) _________________________________________________________________________________

whether Hamlet "literally" speaks to his father's ghost, o whether he is halluciniating is, actually, kind of a major mystery about the play. It's not clear. As for he above, I think shakespeare is a special case of literary influence; thousand and thousands of works follow the structure of romeo and juliet, Lear, Othello and Hamlet. Shakespeare is a special case for this reason. So is Homer. Calling it just "literary influence" is odd. Anyway, the show is a play. Shakespeare wrote plays. So, "dramatic influences" actually would be the way to go, not "literary". And it isn't an an influence; it forms the backbone plot structure, which actually is a story older than shakespeares very popular play. Should we say it's based on a danish legend? Or influenced by one? No. Duracell (talk) 23:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)_______________

season 3? does anyone know if there will be a season 3? thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.77.97.3 (talk) 01:20, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

i just read on OMG! yahoo news that there will be a 3rd season starting september 2010 with 13 episodes!

Sons of Silence

On the main page someone listed SAMCRO as being "based on the real life biker gang, Sons of Silence" and listed it with a false reference. The only notable similarities between Son's of Anarchay and "Sons of Silence" are the word similarities in their names. SOS is a two patch club based in the MidWest and aside from being a 1% club and a somewhat similar name, there is nothing that suggests a relation between SOS and SOA. I am going to remove the misinformation from the page, as well as the false citation. If someone has evidence to the contrary, then please add it as a properly cited change.--OregonWrestling (talk) 20:14, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Womenfolk?

Why are the women in Sons of Anarchy being referred to as "Womenfolk"? Has that word ("Womenfolk") been officially used by the show? If not, it seems like it should be changed to something more neutral. Tedder (talk) 05:21, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The only other semi-notable place that the phrase "womenfolk" appears in conjunction with the show is at http://www.fansofrealitytv.com/forums/non-reality-shows/78237-sons-anarchy.html and they've merely copied the cast list from the Wikipedia article. Simply put, I'd agree that something more neutral is appropriate. SupermanML (talk) 18:51, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I changed it. If anyone disagrees, please post a decent reason here. Tedder (talk) 05:23, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I have watched every episode as of October 8, 2008, and I have never heard the term "womenfolk" used in SOA (only the term "old lady"). If I'm wrong, please let me know...otherwise, I have no problem with stating a more neutral heading for the women of the show. wolvesnthemist (talk) 13:08, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

So perhaps the section should be changed to "Old Ladies?" Just kidding! Tedder, the change is an improvement indeed. SupermanML (talk) 19:22, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Instead of "Womenfolk", which I have never heard used in the show, perhaps it should be "Ol' Ladies" which is commonly used to refer to women in an MC. I have heard that used on this particular show from time to time. Puggylj (talk) 20:41, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Opie's surname

I changed it again now. Opie's surname is LERNER not WINSTON! Check on the FX homepage if you don't believe me. --77.118.142.160 (talk) 11:04, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

More about "Half-Sack"

To show how attached that "Half-Sack" is to Cherry, I was thinking of mentioning that he ended up winning a match that he was supposed to "throw", after seeing Cherry kiss Clay on the cheek in the audience (though for a good reason). Would this be unnecessary? wolvesnthemist (talk) 05:55, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Actually, we might need to cut back that entire section: wiki TV: style guidelines on show casts. Tedder (talk) 06:12, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Theme Song

It was incorrectly listed as "Dreams we left behind" by primal scream. Not only is this NOT the theme song, it isn't even a Primal Scream song. It is performed by a band called Pedestrian. The promotional company is called PrimalScreamMusic which is probably where the confusion occurred. Nevertheless, the song is not the opening theme song. "Dreams we left Behind" was featured in internet promos, the website and commercial promos however.

I cannot find the title of the actual theme song. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.29.59.103 (talk) 04:14, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

according to the SOA official site by FX the themesong was written for the show and they are in the process of recording a full version(longer the the 37 seconds used thusfar) for release, it also lists the names of those involved in it and i believe it is called "This Life". all this information can be found in the production blog76.27.241.97 (talk) 20:39, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Missing Episodes

The episode Fun Town is missing from nearly all internet sources. It has been removed from the Sons of Anarchy webpage and then subsequently removed from other internet sources. Does anyone know where a script, or the episode can be found? Any word why it has been removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.185.187.209 (talk) 21:22, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

10 pm - but what time zone?

The article states Season 2 will premiere September 8 at 10pm, but it does not state what time zone. It's an important detail! I am thinking it must be EST? 24.107.137.117 (talk) 21:32, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Kinda late but I am in EST and SoA shows on FX channel Tues at 10:00pm, and usually repeats at 11:pm and 1:00am and again on Saturday. The Sat rerun episode listing in my cable channel service is usually one week off (it described the reun w the summary of next week's ep.) Naaman Brown (talk) 12:14, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

I believe it is 10pm your local time for cable, so it is definitely not an important detail. It is not broadcasted nationally live or anything. 71.139.183.70 (talk) 07:13, 2 December 2009 (TC)

Insert Reception and keep it in the article

Please can someone insert a RECEPTION section. It seems, the show creator is editing this page and removing all negitive feedback the show has gotten. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Galaxiehoon (talk • contribs) 07:06, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Season 2 summary

I re-wrote a large portion the Season 2 summary. Instead of a summary, it seemed to become just a partial recap of each episode. A lot of it seemed clumsily written and had to be hard for someone who wasn't already watching the show to understand. Characters would be named without any sort of indentification as to who they were and scenerios would be described without any sort of context about why they were important.The Civilized Worm (talk) 15:55, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Notability of "International broadcasters" section

I seriously question the notability of the "International Broadcast" section. I'm going to say it is not recommended and delete it but I'm not going to get into a revert war about it, hopefully the editors who do the most work on this article will decide if it is something they want to allow.

I've looked at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Television/Style_guidelines and it doesn't mention anything about an international broadcast sections anywhere at all in the article. I looked at several well established articles mentioned on the project television guidelines. Prison_Break#Distribution does provide some information but certainly does not have a flat list of International broadcasters.

Wikipedia is not TV Guide, and WP:NOTNEWS. In the better television articles Networks are rarely mentioned except for special big contract deals or if show moves network. This is the English language wikipedia, do the countries listed even broadcast the show in English? I know Germany dubs most programmes into German.

I can see how the information is useful to readers but just is not something a good encyclopedia would include, if nothing else it is too hard to verify if the information is still correct. -- Horkana (talk) 05:59, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Episode Guide

I have the info for the music used in Season 2, I am wondering if I should create an episode guide for all episodes from the info compiled from the FX Series page or a separate section for just the music from the second season alone. Any thoughts?Theo10011 (talk) 19:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Mayberry

The writers are also having a subtle bit of fun based on their apparent high regard for the old Mayberry televission show. This is shown through overt references such as the nickname Opie for one of the gang members, having the local barber named Floyd, and the local authority figure being Andy Taylor like as in displaying down home common sense and loyalty. There are also occasional references to Mayberry as when the DEA agent says something to the effect that "if there is a war between the SOA and LOAN, the town of Cahrming won't be Mayberry" anymore.₰₮₪ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.231.130.2 (talk) 18:53, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

nice find there, I overlooked all the references. can you find a link to it, so it could be mentioned on the wiki.Theo10011 (talk) 06:46, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

I am not that savvy technically speaking. I can say that most of the references were from the first season - my wife purchased the set and we watched over a three day period. In doing that, the references jumped out at you. It was like being one of a handful that are sharing an inside joke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.107.0.80 (talk) 20:05, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

"Sons of Anarchy MC" The MC-stands for Motorcycle Club not Motorcycle Gang

I have noticed on the Sons of Anarchy free encyclopedia information that it starts out talking about the show as a family then they get into the closeness off the Motorcycle Club and its unity. But as it gets going it starts to call it a Motorcycle Gang then latter it just classifies it as a Gang. Then down below the External links SOA-MC is listed in the section of Gangs and below that in the Gang leaders section there is a SOA-MC member who is listed as one of the Gangs leaders. Many times in the T.V. show they have been called Ganges and have taken great offense to this "stigma". Even the young Doctor who is living with Jax gets a raised eye brow from one of her coworkers as she mentions about her time spent with the Motorcycle "Gang" and the young Doctor in a clumsy uneasy way is quick to correct her coworker that it is a Motorcycle Club not a Gang. MC's in real life take great offense to this. Which is one reason why the writer makes an issue on the show about the word Motorcycle Club and Motorcycle Gang, because in real life a person can and will get put in the Hospital if they get the two words crossed up. And with good reason. Because of the The RICO Act-Definition of the RICO ACT is short for Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, it was enacted by the Organized Crime Control Act of 1970. Its main purpose is to give extended penalties in the prosecution of organized criminal acts, and was targeted at the mob although it has since then been used in cases including police departments and gang activity. To be found guilty of racketeering under the RICO act, a person must have committed two of 35 crimes-27 federal crimes and 8 state crimes-within a 10-year period. Prosecution under the RICO act also allows for a civil suit component, with damage penalties tripled if found guilty. If found guilty, the defendant or defendants must also forfeit all gains made from the illicit activities.

Which means if SOA-MC is based on the size and membership and power as the Hells Angels MC around the world and they were all the sudden stuck to the words "Gang Activates" then hit with the RICO ACT they would become like the Nazi's at the end of the war. They went from the largest and the best to nothing with a stroke of a pen. With one difference. The NAZI PARTY can still wave there flags where there uniforms and can still become voted again as a party of the German Government. Where as Hells Angels MC "AKA" SOA-MC would loose all there chapters all there lands cars motorcycles motorcycle garage Shops and all there tools tow trucks and warehouses and adult entertainment money and for ever the United States Patent and Trademark Office would own there logo and colors and would for ever be considered a Motorcycle "GANG" that got shut down. Which in real life to a MC it is the two most disrespectful disgraceful things that could happen. They could loose every thing they own and go to prison but to be put down in the books as a "GANG" and loose there colors and logo to the Government many would rather die before this kind of dishonor. And the Feds know it and it is one of the Feds most coveted battles that they want to win. But MC's can thank the same Government that loathes them so much because they are protected by the same freedoms and laws that try and try to shut them down. It all ways comes down to this in court. Just because this club is dong this and that does not mean that the other club is doing it too. It's amazing how one small regular guy could come up with a way to make it all work. Thanks Sunny. It is of my opinion no matter how you see it even if it is still just a T.V Show. Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia should still (when writing about the story telling people the basics of what the show is about )I still believe they should respect every aspect of the original writers view. 75.66.30.166 (talk) 17:41, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

"SOA Taskforce"

I have greatly contributed to SOA's Wiki profile by creating a bunch of character pages and a Sons of Anarchy Motorcycle Club page. Theo10011 and Jengod have also helped by creating a couple of pages. I'd like to start a "Sons of Anarchy Taskforce" and expand all SOA-related articles, until they are at the same level as, for example, The Wire or The Sopranos. Who's with me? --WölffReik (talk) 17:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm in, I'll help out whenever I can. Let me know what I can do. --Theo10011 (talk) 00:28, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Reliable Sources

Three sources repeating the Entertainment Weekly news that Stephen King will appear on "Sons of Anarchy" are not three sources: the only real source there was EW. Without trying I found two dozen sources all quoting or paraphrasing from EW, but I would not cite the two dozen as independent sources: they are all relying on EW. Naaman Brown (talk) 15:52, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Outline of motorcycles and motorcycling

This article is featured on the Outline of motorcycles and motorcycling - please help to improve it. Thruxton (talk) 11:35, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

IRA

Why would the Scottish member possibly be linked to the IRA? Scotland is not Ireland, the IRA were incredibly Nationalist. I don't think they would have allowed a Scottish member.

The IRA most likely allows any one in that supports them. In fact, there have been protestant sympathizers that have helped the IRA in the past. The Scots and Irish have a lot more in common than the Irish and Anglos. After all, the Highland Scots and Irish are both Celtic peoples, who have shared Anglos as an enemy at one point or another. On the other hand, many people of Scottish descent in North Ireland sympathize with the Anglos/British.71.10.230.146 (talk) 13:43, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Also, the IRA doesn't really exist anymore. Thats why there was a Northern Ireland Peace Treaty, the IRA gave up their weapons. That plot-line alone has made me realise I would get annoyed watching this. 77.44.47.20 (talk) 19:57, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

The IRA does still exist today as Provisiona IRA, Real IRA, and Continuity IRA. All three separate entities are still active, most notabley the RIRA, who bombed Massereene Barracks in March of 2009.71.10.230.146 (talk) 13:43, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

216.93.129.61 (talk)

Though I don't really like this show, from what I've seen, the IRA plotline isn't that unbelievable. The leader of Sam Crow reminds his IRA contact that he "supported their split from Adams." By that, I take it that the IRA they are dealing with is the so-called "Real IRA" that split from the IRA after the peace brokered by Gerry Adams. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.93.129.61 (talk) 15:52, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

For a while, I wasn't sure that Chibs was Scottish--granted, the actor is, but I wasn't sure the character was. Then I found proof on the FX website. So anyway, let the debate continue! SupermanML (talk) 21:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

In the first season Cameron clearly refers to Chibbs as "Scotty" when he is trying to patch him up from the gunshot wound. Of course this refers to him being Scottish.

as a yankee you would belive that with the peace accord that the IRA would roll up camp amd blow away. nothing could be farther from the truth!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.140.166.116 (talk) 18:23, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

True IRA has as much connection to Real IRA as Sons of Anarchy MC has to any real motorcycle club: a fictional connection. Naaman Brown (talk) 10:32, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Clay specifically states Stahl's "Real IRA connections" in the season 3 premiere while talking to Tara. I am changing the reference in the article from True IRA to Real IRA, because previously it was believed that the True IRA (fictional) was based on the Real IRA (authentic), but now it is clear that is meant to be a fictional depiction of the actual organization. I changed most of the pages connected to SOA. 206.211.157.187 (talk) 06:17, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

One is still left it seems - and it refers to the wrongest of them all, the actual, historical IRA (it's in the plot description for Season one: "Opie botches a planned assassination that was a favor for the Irish Republican Army, ..."). About "How would a scott become a part of the irish nationalist underground" I have one more suggestion: Fiona. Jimmys girlfriend / wife and Chibbs ex is certainly tied deeply into the organisation - as would have been any man sharing her life.80.152.24.10 (talk) 13:18, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

This is 206.211.157.187. in a season 3 episode, i forgot which one, but it is as clear as day, a newspaper prop has a headline about the killing of Cameron I believe, where it says something along the lines of "[Something] IRA claims credit for killing" I do not remember what it says, True or Real, so if somebody sees it, post it here. that would settle the argument for good. 206.211.150.206 (talk) 11:43, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Hells Angels

This is basically a fictionalized account of the Hell's Angels right? It wouldn't hurt to mention this, particularly if there were quotes saying such by producers or directors. The fact that they operate in the east bay is suggestive of this thesis, beyond the more obvious details.76.91.90.112 (talk) 22:33, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

From what I understand, it's largely fictional, but the history of the gangs is cribbed from HA and the Bandidos and so on. I believe at least two Angels were technical advisors though. Hopefully someone can dig up info to that effect. 208.78.120.35 (talk) 14:09, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

They also seem to be loosely based on the Mongols of California; battles w/ the Mexican mafia, a smaller all-around size of the club, and the fact it was founded by Vietnam vets.Dexta32084 (talk) 22:22, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

SAMCRO is clearly (loosely) based of the HAMC and in no way off of the Mongols. The Mongols were created to combat the HA and were originally a group of individuals that did not qualify for HAMC membership.The Mongols recruit from street gangs that are affiliated with the Mexican Mafia.--OregonWrestling (talk) 19:45, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

In addition to this club being based (loosely) on the HAMC, it's rival club the "Mayans" are based solely on the Mongols. The HAMC and the Mongols have been at war in the Bay area for many years in the same way that SAMCRO and the Mayans are at war in the same area.--OregonWrestling (talk) 19:49, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

As entertaining as this show may be, it does not follow that of a traditional Motor cycle club. I would find it very hard to believe that there are advisors from any motor cycle club, much less the HA's. Based on the shows club design, this more of someone's idea of how a club functions and operates. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maverickvnv (talk • contribs) 04:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

SassyPrncess (talk) 20:54, 12 September 2008 (UTC)Actually, this club functions MUCH more like the MC the Vagos. The club house, the meetings... very similar. I think what those who have never been inside this world do not realize is that a true patch holder of ANY MC will never 'give up' all the details of their club or how most any club really operates. Not going to happen! There may be 'technical advisors' but what you are seeing is about as in-depth as it will get - in regards to the inner workings of how a REAL MC operates. In other words, the skeleton or foundation (meetings, loyalty, clubhouse, culture of family/women, running drugs/guns/women) is going to be accurate, the rest is 'artistic license.' My ex-H was a Vago. This is all you're getting out of me! SassyPrncess (talk) 20:54, 12 September 2008 (UTC) THIS IS NO HELL ANGELS AT ALL,LOOK MORE LIKE MONGOLS, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.171.216.228 (talk) 02:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC) M.F.F.M

By the way, it's "Hells Angels." Not Hell's, nor Hell, nor Angeles. It's Hells Angels!!! SupermanML (talk) 02:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok to clarify this discussion regarding who is who and which actual 3 patch clubs are being used to compare and model after. It is stated that the "Members of the Messengers of Recovery, a clean and sober group, and the Vagos are either part of the cast or help with technical issues" Per the Thunder Press West Coast Edition August 2008 page 40, written by Jack Ryan. There is no mention in the article of HA's. 72FRANKEE (talk) 05:23, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

The Sons of Anarchy seem totally fictional to me, but the Mayans are blatantly based on the Mongols and the True IRA are based on the Real IRA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.212.179.61 (talk) 14:10, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

---

To clear all of this up once and for all: One of the technical advisors, before he was murdered, was the ex-president of the HA Frisco Charter (Mark "Papa" Guardado). David Labrava (who plays Happy) is a Hells Angel from a California charter. This has been mentioned many times in the media. There are a few reasons why "SAMCRO" differs in many aspects to a real 1% club: fiction/creative license/television marketability.98.176.233.118 (talk) 21:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

ALL traditional MCs function in essentially the same way as far as heierarchy and rules (taken from the military model). The character Happy is an HA and Sonny Barger has given his "approval" of the show by inviting Kurt Sutter to his last birthday run and had him pack his own wife on Kurt's borrowed bike.

• I wouldn't say HA really endorse the show. They have members who have appeared in the show (LaBrava), and members who have advised on the show. Chuck Zito (an ex-Hells Angel) is pursuing litigation against FX. Zito claims FX stole the concept from him after executives form FX turned down Zito's pitch and storyline. It's seems that HA only support the show because HA members have been involved in casting and advising. But, the thing to keep in mind is that other MC's are alos involved in the show, some of which are rivals of HAMC. 98.176.233.118 (talk) 21:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Formatting

Hey guys, it looks like the table for the international broadcast has gone a bit wonky, its appearing sub external links and seems to have incorporated the Sons of Anarchy box into itself. I have absolutely no idea how to fix it, sorry, I gave it a crack but nada. Anyways, nice page, I hope someone smarter than me can fix your box. 121.73.224.5 (talk) 09:24, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

cast listings

WikiProject: Television states:

Remember to follow the notability guidelines when creating a cast list: Not every fictional character ever created deserves to be listed and even fewer will deserve an individual article. For the main article of a series, it may be appropriate to split up the cast listing by "Main characters" and "Recurring characters". (...) When organizing the cast section, please keep in mind that "main" cast status is determined by the series producers, not by popularity or screen time. Furthermore, articles should reflect the entire history of a series, and as such actors remain on the list even after their departure from the series.

There are some great suggestions for how the characters should be listed. In any case, I believe we need to de-emphasize this list. Tedder (talk) 22:49, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Some of the cast members in this section are labeled with incorrect season debuts. For example, it notes Dayton Callie as being active with the show from "Season3-present when he was involved from season 1 onward. In fact, Ryan Hurst, William Lucking, and Theo Rossi cast participation notes are all incorrect. All three have been in the series since season 1. 71.58.24.146 (talk) 23:23, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Can we reiterate the above reference to the wikipedia manual of style (television), particularly that "articles should reflect the entire history of a series, and as such actors remain on the list even after their departure from the series." This means the former cast members section was actually against Wikipedias style guidelines. Connor5612 (talk) 21:55, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

This should apply to Danny Trejo's addition - he hasn't been in any SOA episodes and if he's slated for Season 4, he needs to be noted accordingly, or removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.173.47.245 (talk) 15:31, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Maureen Ryan

No offense to Maureen Ryan, but why is the critical reception pretty much dominated by this one critic? There have been tons of reviews from different critics that have commented on all seasons, but for some reason only her input is given. Leads me to question who posted them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.198.0.201 (talk) 22:04, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Kenny Johnson

I added Kenny johnson in the cast section, he made an appearance in episode 12. His character seems to have history with Tigs, I dont know if his character would have a continuing arc on the series during the next season. If anyone thinks that it might have been just a guest spot, then please feel free to remove his name from the cast section.

Kozik (Kenny Johnson) is a recurring guest star that is a member of an out of state Chapter of SOA. He is not a permanent cast member.--OregonWrestling (talk) 22:44, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Guest stars

This section is getting a bit long-winded, (even though I have done some of the damage myself). Seeing as they are all listed on the characters page anyway, I was thinking of maybe cutting the list back to main guest stars, maybe just Deputy Hale, Happy, Stahl and Lyla (seeing as they are in the most episodes, at least 14 episodes each), as the rest can be found on the very detailed character page. Does anyone have any thoughts on what we should do? Connor5612 (talk) 00:28, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Happy isn't a guest star, he is a full patch member of SAMCRO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OregonWrestling (talk • contribs) 22:46, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Happy IS a guest star. Yes, he is a full patch member of SAMCRO in the fictional universe of the show, but this is a listing of full cast members. He is not a main cast member (yet, although he probably will be in the future). Also Luann Delaney and AJ Weston have both appeared in 10+ episodes, far more than Kozik (who I think has only appeared in 4) so please do not remove them from the recurring list. The recurring list is written in order of most episodes to least. Connor5612 (talk) 23:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

It is becoming clear what is happening on this page. We seem to have a bully that believes he or she owns the page. The facts are: Happy is a fulltime member of the cast, and that is easily verified by checking on TVguide.com (http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/sons-anarchy/cast/295134). Luann Delaney and AJ Weston have both been killed on the show and should be placed into a category labelled "Former Cast Members". --OregonWrestling (talk) 21:33, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

You're flawed by your own source there. You will note that your source also lists Mitch Pileggi, Hal Holbrook and Nick Guest as Main cast members, when they obviously aren't. I'm not trying to bully, I am trying to be accurate. Happy is not yet a main cast member, the website is wrong. Main cast members are listed in the title sequence or the opening credits of the show as 'starring'. If you check the show, David LaBrava is listed as "Guest starring". Apart from that, I actually think your idea of Former cast members is a very good one to clear up a few of the differences we had. Please, just watch the opening of the latest episode again, when they list the guest stars name. David LaBrava is listed as a "guest star", I promise you. Just because someone at TV Guide said so, doesnt make it so. Connor5612 (talk) 03:21, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Awful Irish Accents

Surely it has to be mentioned the criticisms this show has come in for the laughable attempts of the actors to try and produce a Belfast Accent.

For all it's praise this is the 1 aspect that turned me off it (an Irishman) and there are plenty of sources to back this up as a credible entry in the aritcle.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVIkgK6eyn0 http://www.sonsofanarchyforums.com/the-irish-t388.html

http://ctchannel.wordpress.com/2010/09/06/follow-up-sons-of-anarchy-2/ To name but a few. 134.146.0.41 (talk) 16:51, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

That's a great idea, we could definitely throw something in the critical reception about that. The only problem being that Wikipedia doesn't accept blogger reviews or user determined forums as suitable sources. What we need is an established entertainment reporter or reviewer type thing saying that the accents are awful. Do you know of any? Connor5612 (talk) 9:05, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The whole Irish angle is a bit of a mess to be honest. In different episodes, they alternate between talking about the True IRA and then the Real IRA. Nevermind the fact that Liam O'Neill refers to them as the Real Provos in one episode. Did anyone do some actual research before they introduce this storyline? 86.42.68.134 (talk) 23:29, 15 June 2011 (UTC)BOZG

The RIRA is rarely, but sometimes, referred to as the "True IRA". Given the absurd scenarios continuously presented in the show, the inaccuracy does not imply that they did not do background research.98.240.67.27 (talk) 02:38, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Randolph Mantooth

I edited the article some time ago to include Randolph Mantooth in the list of recurring characters, as he appeared twice in Season 4 as a Native American named Charlie. But it got deleted. I'm not sure if the character will recur again, but I know that Mantooth was a pretty big TV star in the 70s, and as such feel that his appearance in this series rates a mention. Perhaps there should be a section called "Special Guest Stars" or "Guest Stars".Neanderthalprimadonna (talk) 02:13, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Half-Sack

I would argue that it makes no sense to list Johnny Lewis ("Half Sack") under main cast as he was killed at the end of season two and will thus not be seen on the show again (except perhaps in some kind of flashback, but main cast he is not). Likewise, it doesn't make sense to put actors/actresses who played people that are now deceased in the SOA universe under recurring cast (recurring would imply that the character might be seen again which is not likely if they're dead). I would suggest adding a third category: Former cast members.

Lastly, I wouldn't mind a category for notable guest appearances (Stephen King and Hal Holbrook immediately come to mind). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.228.177.73 (talk) 08:13, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

A former main character is still a main character. "Kurt Sutter, series writer and creator, said that Half-Sack was killed off because Lewis wanted to leave the show due to creative differences; "We decided we'd find some noble way for him to go. It wasn't my intent to try to be sensational and kill off a main character." " Thelemur78 (talk) 02:07, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

The creative world of the Sons of Anarchy?

Rather than just pad out this article with the usual narrative on what the series plot entails, is it possible to add stuff about Kurt Sutter's own artistic vision for the show? The series is about outlaw motorcycle gangs but is it supposed to be drama based on facts or just fiction involving real-world things, i.e. a motorcycle gang. My point being, I cannot work out from this article or the series whether this show is just using bikers (because this story plots could be about anyone, anything, any organisation, e.g. mercenaries, who are plainly bad ass?). Is Sutter primarily trying to create a crime drama story with violence, guns, gangsters etc which just happens to involve a motorcycle club or does this series have anything deeper to tell us about the secretive/brotherly world of the outlaw motorcycle club?

In a nutshell, without getting bogged down into much too minutiae, recognizing that the SoA is obviously a fictitious show, what is credibly believable and where does the real world collide or merge with the fantasy? Has Sutter ever commented on the show's high body count? In a Real World situation that level of attrition would be impossible to conceal from law enforcement agencies. So is Sutter on one level trying to be factual while at the same time trying to go for dramatic entertainment? Or is this show just a lot of crock? And Sutter is just relying on the public's general fascination and ignorance of outlaw biker gangs to keep the show going?

In another way, this is the first series to deal with biker gangs. The public is not familiar with such groups. TV shows about cops, the FBI, gangsters, the mafia, etc have all been done many times. Audiences know when they are getting their chain pulled with outlandish plots or unrealistic events. Nowadays, these types of genres now go for ultra-brutal realism, an early example would be HBO's The Sopranos and that style continues today with series like Southlands. The viewer knows where they stand with series like that. But SoA sways between melodrama, violence and, dare I say it, light comedy at times. This ambiguity is retained in this article. Which comes back to my main point, what is Sutter's vision? Or better still, how does he want this series to be remembered? Can an article like this tell us that? 109.155.66.97 (talk) 15:32, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for intruding, but has anyone made a statement about the influence of the Mongols on both the Sons of Anarchy and the Mayans????? The origins, location, make up ect. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that these two gangs both derive from the real Mongols. 71.218.0.9 (talk) 02:41, 22 August 2012 (UTC)feedthebirds

Recurring Guest Stars

Anyone else concerned the list of recurring guest stars is getting realllllyyyy long? I think it could stand some pruning back, but would like to consensus-build on exactly what criteria we should set for inclusion or not. Normally I'd vote to delist any actor that doesn't have a Wiki. However, in at least a couple examples (Tayler Sheridan as Deputy Chief Hale, McNally Sagal as hospital administrator Margaret Murphy) that would eliminate people/characters that have played an identifiable if not significant role in the series. Any thoughts? Sector001 (talk) 02:59, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what the criteria should be either. The list is long partly because of all the characters that get killed off. Sonny Barger is a recurring guest star that isn't listed but is mentioned later on in the article. He plays Lenny "The Pimp" Janowitz and is listed on the 'List of Sons of Anarchy characters page' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sons_of_Anarchy_characters#Lenny_.22The_Pimp.22_Janowitz He has been in three episodes. One episodes in each of the last three seasons (4,5&6). If he is worth mentioning in the article perhaps he should also be on that list. Mattsky (talk) 02:24, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Character comparison of SOA to Hamlet

Sons of Anarchy has been compared to Shakespeare’s Hamlet, in its scope covering treachery, revenge and moral corruption. While not an exacting rendition of Shakespeare’s’ play, it does closely hew to its themes (see this interview with Ron Perlman – who plays Clay Morrow – for his take on the Hamlet references: http://collider.com/entertainment/interviews/article.asp?aid=9017&tcid=1)

Here’s a rundown of characters:

Murdered King

• Hamlet: King Hamlet, who was murdered by his brother. King Hamlet appears as a ghost, with haunting messages of revenge for the Prince.

• SOA: John Teller, the founding president of the MC, who was murdered by his friend Clay Morrow. John appears alternatively either in the form of his memoirs that are read by Jax, his wife and friends and his wife

Tortured Prince

• Hamlet: Prince Hamlet, son of the murdered king, nephew of the usurper currently married to Claudius. Prince Hamlet’s thoughts and experiences form the central theme of the play. Hamlet’s famous soliloquy (To be or not to be) contemplates his suicide to escape the tortures of what he knows and sees.

• SOA: Jax Teller, VP of the club, son of the murdered MC President, adopted son of the usurper currently sitting as club president. Jax’s thoughts and experiences form the central theme of the play. Jax considers leaving the club to escape the tortures of what he knows and sees.

Traitorous Usurper

• Hamlet: Claudius murders his brother King Hamlet, marries his widow Queen Gertrude and ascends to the throne. His conniving plots lead to the challenges that confront the court and the main characters of the play.

• SOA: Clay Morrow murders his best friend John Teller, marries his widow Gemma Teller and becomes the club president. His conniving plots lead to the challenges that confront the club.

Unfaithful Queen

• Hamlet: Queen Gertrude, who took Claudius as her husband in the wake of King Hamlet’s death. Her love for her son Hamlet conflicts with her love for Claudius, causing the a great deal of turmoil in their personal lives and within the court.

• SOA: Gemma Teller. Her love for her son Jax conflicts with her love for Clay, causing a great deal of turmoil in their personal lives and within the club.

Prince’s Best Friend

• Hamlet: Horatio is a faithful constant in Hamlet’s life (and present in nearly all the scenes of the play). He survives the final scene to serve as Hamlet’s witness to the events of the play.

• SOA: Opie Winston (son of Piney Winston). He is a faithful constant, but facing several challenges to his loyalty to the club.

Prince’s Lover

• Hamlet: Ophelia, also daughter of Polonius. Tortured by her fears and the apparent death of Hamlet, she commits suicide.

• SOA: Dr Tara Knowles. Tortured by the violence that surrounds the club, she commits career suicide by agreeing to stay with Jax.

King’s Close Confidant

• Hamlet: Polonius, who is killed accidentally by Hamlet (thinking he was Claudius in hiding)

• SOA: Piney Winston, founding member of SOA. Piney is murdered by Clay, when Piney threatens to reveal Clay as John Teller’s murderer.

• SOA: Tig Trager, the former Sgt at Arms of the club. He’s responsible for the death of Donna Winston and the attempted killing of Tara Knowles

Other Major Protagonist

• Hamlet: Laertes. His father Polonius is accidentally killed by Hamlet and his sister Ophelia commits suicide. In the final scene, Laertes and Hamlet duel to the death, done in by poisoned swords.

• SOA: Opie Winston. His father Piney is murdered by Clay and his wife Donna Winston is killed accidentally by Tig, mistakenly thinking it was Opie, about to turn against the club.

Other Characters

• Hamlet: Rosencrantz and Guildenstern – who Hamlet worries are spent to spy on him. Also Officers and Soldiers: Marcellus, Bernardo, Francisco

• SOA: Bobby Munson, club secretary and and Wayne Unser (former Charming CA Police Chief). also Chibs Telford, current club Sgt at Arms and Happy (club hang around)

Major Events

• Assassination Attempt: o Hamlet is sent to England, where he was to be killed on arrival o Jax is on a trip to Ireland to find his kidnapped son, where he was supposed to be killed

• Futile Battle: o Hamlet encounters Fortinbras, leading an army to assumed death in a battle against Poland. o Jax deals with battles against drug lords and gun-runners (both Russian and Irish)

• Final Scene o Hamlet and Laertes are dead, killed by the poisoned sword planted by Claudius. Claudius is killed by Hamlet, using the same poisoned sword. Gertrude is also killed by a wine poisoned by Claudius. o SOA is still running, with Season 5 scheduled to air in September 2012…. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bob.bolandrina (talk • contribs) 16:22, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Wow, that's a shed load of original research, i.e. reading much more into a source than it actually says. It barely mentions Hamlet and this is in the context of just the first couple of episodes of a show that is about to being its Nth season. What you have posted is interesting but of no encyclopaedic value without further credible and reliable sources to back it up. --Biker Biker (talk) 16:59, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Biker Biker. A sh-t load of information, of really useless information. I like good drama, but I, and many sons of anarchy fans, have absolutely no interest in Shakespeare, nor a comparison of SOA to Shakespeare. MS, 206.192.35.125 (talk) 13:06, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Deceased "Main Characters"

With the death of *SPOILER ALERT* Opie, I noticed that there are a few former main characters that are still listed under the "Main Characters" section. In light of this being a continuing series and one with a steady turnover in main characters surely now that they are deceased and are no longer credited in the show, then they cannot continue to be considered main characters? Especially seeing as there is a Characters page with their character biographies. So I suggest that the Main characters section be confined to ACTIVE and credited cast members only. As opposed to including deceased characters. The same with "recurring guest stars" if they havnt been on the series since season 1 then they can hardly be considered recurring can they...? MisterShiney (talk) 16:12, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Mild Oppose -- While I can certainly see your point on this, I have to go against you on the change MisterShiney. As fans we have no idea how the deaths of some of these characters -- Piney and Opie in particular -- will affect the storyline as the show goes on. Is there a precedent on this, Wikis of shows that also lost main cast characters we can emulate? Just an example I can think of off top of my head is The Waltons. "Grandpa Walton" (actor Will Geer) died during the run of the show, but is still listed with the rest of the main cast characters. Sector001 (talk) 17:10, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Rumor has it, that in season 6, Nero and Gemma will be executed together, while they sit in Nero's car. MS, Dania Fl 206.192.35.125 (talk) 13:02, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Well that may or may not come to fruition. However Wiki policy is not to add "rumors" to articles. See WP:Crystal Need verified neutral sourcing for it. Sector001 (talk) 16:15, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Comic Book Series

There is a new comic book starting in September '13 that relates to SOA TV show. It will feature main characters etc. http://blog.boom-studios.com/2013/06/sons-of-anarchy-rides-into-boom/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.44.4.246 (talk) 16:27, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Article needs to be brought up to date

Hi, I'm going to try to start working on bringing this article up to date (seasons renewed, premiere dates, etc.) in anticipation of the new season premiering soon. I won't touch any dead characters. If anyone has any information they could help me with that would be very useful. Thanks. KatCheez 15:07, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Section on the upcoming video game

Should there maybe be a section in here for the upcoming video game Kurt Sutter announced? He posted on Twitter and it was on most major game news sites a while back. Alligator bear (talk) 04:53, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Season 7 cast lists

I have undid a addition of Season 7 partial cast list with no inclusion of a reference. Per WP:CRYSTAL and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Television I propose that until a reliable source listing the cast for Season 7 is provided with the change, the addition of the cast list may be reverted as vandalism. Any objections? Hasteur (talk) 20:07, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

• • I went ahead and edited the lists because it's now been officially announced that Drea de Matteo, David LaBrava and Niko Nicotera are being promoted to regulars. I have not, however, integrated them alphabetically as we do not yet know if they will be credited in the main title sequence or added to the opening credits as "starring", the way Jimmy Smits was in the sixth season.--Old Soldier (talk) 00:07, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Chuck Zito

Chuck Zito's not a Hells Angel. Anymore.73.213.142.170 (talk) 03:53, 16 August 2015 (UTC)Americanegro