Talk:Siegfried (opera)

*Siegfried*
Siegfried
by Richard Wagner
	Scene from Act 3, Siegfried awakens Brünnhilde, by E. Cobham Brewer, 1892
Librettist	Richard Wagner
Language	German
Premiere	16 August 1876; Bayreuth Festival, as part of the first complete performance of the cycle Der Ring des Nibelungen

Richard Wagner

This article falls within the scope of the Richard Wagner WikiProject, a collaboration to develop articles on the composer and his operas. The project talk page is a place to discuss issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!Richard WagnerWikipedia:WikiProject Richard WagnerTemplate:WikiProject Richard WagnerRichard Wagner articles

Opera

This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Opera, a group writing and editing Wikipedia articles on operas, opera terminology, opera composers and librettists, singers, designers, directors and managers, companies and houses, publications and recordings. The project discussion page is a place to talk about issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!OperaWikipedia:WikiProject OperaTemplate:WikiProject OperaOpera articles

Germany Low‑importance

	Germany portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Marvel Comics

FYI I don't know how to incorporate this into the article, but in Thor (Marvel Comics) a Marvel Comics wrote a short series based loosely on this and the Volsunga in between issues #292-300.MPA 23:01, 16 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MPA (talk • contribs)

Infobox

"In deepest humility I dedicate herewith" to your majesties of this article my humble offering, "I make bold to add this most humble request": may your majesties "deign to dignify the present modest labor with a gracious acceptance", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:47, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Quite a few years off the mark there - to what Bach says, Wagner replies "this fast-growing tendency to chain men to machine[-readable data] and deprive them of all joy in their efforts--the plan will lead to cheap men and cheap products. I set my face against it and plead for the dignity and health of the open air, and the olden time". Nikkimaria (talk) 00:53, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong era ;) - It's 2013 now, I have joy in the effort of "awakening", showing more open air, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:16, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ugly and futile; proving, as Nikkimaria shows, that as often, Wagner had it right well ahead of his time. Why, I ponder, should anyone waste their time scattering this sort of dung across assorted article talk-pages, when they could be doing something constructive? I join the plea for dignity and (mental) health.--Smerus (talk) 14:08, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You belie the definition of ponder and frankly have exhausted a significant measure of good faith! I've too long observed this debate, seeing no reason to comment more compelling than speaking to a wall; a measure I do not fancy. Because you have shown yourself bankrupt, I would not normally withhold my two cent's when it could relieve the shame you must feel as a vagrant. But you will remain destitute before I extend charity; until you apologize to Gerda Arendt, one of the kindest wikipedians I have ever known!

Only then will I describe to you the verb tense of ponder, and the important nuance of its meaning. Please pardon my candor if I've wrongfully identified you as a discourteous malcontent when in fact you are actually ignorant. I feel nearly certain however that you are not ignorant, choosing not to treat you as if you were. :) John Cline (talk) 10:00, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Only just seen this as my friend Gerda has just pointed it out to me. Hope you have lightened up a bit by now. Best, --Smerus (talk) 20:49, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling of "ring"

The initial letter of the word "ring" should not be capitalized, unless it is written as part of a title as in "The Ring of the Nibelung". I have replaced several incorrect "Ring"s with more correct "ring"s in the synopsis. Goblinshark17 (talk) 07:16, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Ring" should be capitalized. Why do you think it should not be?73.220.34.167 (talk) 03:56, 29 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox (again)

Infoboxes should be added after discussion on talkpage. No discussion took place here. I don't think the box very appropriate. Have removed it pending further discussion. I am flagging the issue at WP:Opera and WP:Wagner.--Smerus (talk) 10:29, 27 August 2015 (UTC==Sigurd==

'Sigurd'

I have removed from the lead and the infobox the unsourced and rather misleading 'information' that the opera is based on the legend of Sigurd. The article moreovoer makes it clear in a cited source that Wagner was (at least partly) inspired by the fairy tale The Story of the Youth Who Went Forth to Learn What Fear Was. In fact the article is unsatisfactory in not explaining the origins of the opera in an appropriate manner - at some point I hope to rewrite it and put it into shape.--Smerus (talk) 13:26, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Is this seriously something on wikipedia? Everyone knows that Siegfried is the same thing as Sigurd! lol73.220.34.167 (talk) 03:58, 29 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

But where the story comes from, and indeed reliable information in general, is a different matter from 'what everyone knows'.--Smerus (talk) 18:48, 29 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know anything about either figure? They are very obviously the same person. Do you also doubt Günther being Gunnar? Or Wotan being Odin? Or Gutrune being Gudrun. Or Kriemhilde for that matter. The stories and the people are the same, regardless of source or language. 73.220.34.167 (talk) 18:13, 1 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

My friend, try reading what is already in the article about Sigurd, and learn something about context. It's not what you know, or think you know, that counts; it's using and applying it in an appropriate manner.--Smerus (talk) 23:01, 1 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Siegfried (opera)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

Press [show] to view →

B class. This article is similar in quality to Das Rheingold and Die Walküre. As with the other article, I have 'credited' it with the information in the three Ring articles (Der Ring des Nibelungen, Der Ring des Nibelungen: Composition of the text, Der Ring des Nibelungen: Composition of the music). It could benefit from:

German first lines included as appropriate in the synopsis. Also, 'Noted excerpts' integrated into the synopsis.
A section on the critical reaction to the opera
A full discography including historic recordings
Sources and references developed. (The section now called 'Sources' should go into a background section near the beginning of the article.)

-- Kleinzach 00:04, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

B class. Agree with Klienzach's comments. --GuillaumeTell 21:17, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Low Start 34/100. I disagree with the above reviewers on fully crediting the contents of the other articles. WP:Summary makes it clear that a summary of the information should be included here as well as the more detailed analysis elsewhere.

Background/history of composition/discussion of plot and/or text, etc. 6/15: Most of these points are credited for the link to the composition articles, but the mention of boy who did not know fear is also credited. The detailed information belongs in the composition articles, but I would expect at least start and end dates. The lead section is also meant to be a summary, so I would expect the opera's role in the Ring cycle as a whole to be mentioned.
Performance history, including recent performance history and creators of roles 5/15. Need to mention recent performances and hwo rarely performed apart from a Ring project.
List of roles 4/5. Description of who is whose child, sibling or spouse would improve this.
Synopsis 6/10. I think a mention of previous events relevant to the plot will be useful and more plot informaiton here, including how Brunnhilde refers to having previously protected Siegfried, how Mime refuses to host the Wanderer and that is why he has to answer questions, how he reveals he knows Siegmund's name having denied knowing it o Siegfried etc. Also it is not properly explained that the Wanderer is the old man.
Notable arias etc. 4/5. List looks fairly full. I've got a box of early recordings of excerpts, so I'll see which bits are listed there. As indicated above, this list should be embedded in the synopsis.
Critical opinion/discussion of the music. 0/15 Not really covered at all. The extra sophistication in Act 3 should really be mentioned.
Recordings 0/10 not mentioned. There are some recordings of the opera separate from complete cycles. I think in the long term, there may be a full discography of the Ring including separate operas, but something should be mentioned here.
Illustrations, including musical illustrations 5/10. A good range of images. Musical illustrations would also be good.
Inline references, notes, sources, external links 4/10. A start has been made but more referencing will be needed as the article is developed. Good to have link to vocal score, but other links should be available, e.g. sites related to those mentioned at Die Walkure

--Peter cohen 09:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Further to discussion at WT:Richard Wagner I am downgrading this article to Start as the views expressed there are that information from other articles should not be assumed.--Peter cohen (talk) 19:06, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 19:06, 22 September 2010 (UTC). Substituted at 06:07, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Question regarding synopses and sources

The synopsis contains references sourced to one edition of the piano-vocal score, basically, each scene is referenced to the pages of the score which contain that scene. Is this appropriate? Do we use primary sources as references, and is it appropriate to post synopses with sources? Would we source a synopsis of, for instance, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn to a published edition of that book?

Please advise.

HandsomeMrToad (talk) 11:32, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]