Talk:Shifa International Hospitals

Proposed changes on organization’s Wikipedia page

• What I think should be changed (include citations): Shifa International Hospitals Limited (SIHL) is a Pakistani healthcare company that operates a group of hospitals and is distinguished for its comprehensive medical services. It is headquartered in the capital city Islamabad.

It is a multi-specialty quaternary care hospital with over 550 beds. Shifa has a network of hospitals and medical centers, laboratory pickup points and home healthcare network across the country. Shifa also has a cancer center facility and a comprehensive neuroscience & stroke center.

The hospital has the facility of performing liver, kidney, cornea and bone marrow transplants. It offers 640 slice CT scan and 3 Tesla MRI scan. SIH runs two medical centers in Islamabad and is constructing a full-fledge hospital in Faisalabad.

SIHL also contributes to medical education, postgraduate training <https://stmu.edu.pk/academic/collegesdepartments/scm/postgraduate-training/></ref> and research, <https://www.shifa.com.pk/scrc-4/></ref> sponsors a federally-chartered university STMU, and serves a university teaching hospital for various academic departments, constituent colleges and institutes of the STMU.

As part of the corporate philanthropy of Shifa Enterprise, Shifa Foundation, a sister organization, plays a key role in the future of healthcare in Pakistan. <https://disclosures.ifc.org/project-detail/ESRS/40947/shifa-hospitals></ref>

In 2019, member of the World Bank Group, International Finance Corporation (IFC), became one of the major shareholders of SIHL. <https://www.ifc.org/en/pressroom/2019/ifc-invests-11-million-in-shifa-international-to-bolster-healthcare-in-pakistan></ref>

Shifa was accredited by the Joint Commission International (JCI) for the first time in 2017. After that it was re-accredited in 2020 and 2024. <https://www.dailyparliamenttimes.com/2024/02/22/sih-achieves-prestigious-jcia-for-the-third-consecutive-term/></ref>, <https://www.nation.com.pk/23-Feb-2024/shifa-international-hospital-achieves-prestigious-joint-commission-international-accreditation></ref>

SIHL also holds certifications from ISO 9001, ISO 22000, and ISO 45001. <https://www.shifa.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Shifa-2022_compressed-annual-report.pdf></ref> , <https://disclosures.ifc.org/project-detail/ESRS/40947/shifa-hospitals></ref>

Healthcare Services More than 300 clinical consultants with US & Europe qualified Physicians & Surgeons under one roof More than 45 clinical specialities 130 plus critical care beds 55 plus emergency beds

Medical Specialties Audiology Cardiology Dermatology Endocrinology & Diabetes Emergency Medicine Executive Health Clinics Gastroenterology & Hepatology Infectious Diseases Internal Medicine Nephrology Neurology Nutrition & Dietetics Oncology Palliative Care Pediatrics Psychiatry Pulmonology Rheumatology Rehabilitation Services

Surgical Specialties Cardiac Surgery Dentistry/Orthodontics Ear, Nose & Throat (ENT) General Surgery Neurosurgery Obstetrics & Gynecology Ophthalmology Orthopedic Surgery Pediatric Surgery Plastic Surgery Urology

Medical Technology(supposed to be in bullets) Total Lab Automation (TLA) System MRI Scan (Siemens 3 Tesla Magnetom VIDA) CT-Scan (Toshiba Aquilion One 640 slice) Mammography (Selenia Dimensions, 3D Hologic) Next Generation Interventional Radiology suite Selenia Dimensions 3D Hologic Mammography System Advanced Cath Lab System State-of-the-art Linear Accelerator and CT Simulator (Wide Bore) Latest Brachytherapy Machine State-of-the-art equipment in all other modalities Specialty Labs in Histopathology, Immunology, Special Chemistry, Cytogenetics, Microbiology, NAT, etc. Shifa’s Transplant Programs SIHL has four distinct transplant programs under one roof:

Living Donor Liver Transplantation Liver transplantation started in 2012 and till now Shifa has performed over 1300 living donor liver transplants at the facility. <https://www.shifa.com.pk/liver-transplant/></ref>

Bone Marrow/ Stem Cell Transplantation SIHL has conducted more than 500 transplants including Autologous, Allogenic (fully matched and half-matched HAPLO) transplants. <https://www.shifa.com.pk/bone-marrow-transplant/></ref>

Kidney Transplantation The hospital has performed more than 870 living donor kidney transplants since 2001. <https://www.shifa.com.pk/kidney-transplant/></ref>

Corneal Transplantation The hospital has conducted more than 350 corneal transplants since its inception in 2001. <https://www.shifa.com.pk/corneal-transplant/></ref>

Shifa Medical & Dialysis Center G-10, Islamabad Shifa Medical and Dialysis Center Islamabad officially opened on June 21, 2014, and has a 30-bed facility. The Center offers pharmacy services and a lab pickup point, radiology (X-ray, ultrasound), and various OPD clinics. <https://www.shifa.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/03FOR-THE-NINE-MONTHS-PERIOD-ENDED-MARCH-31-2024-PSX-30-04-2024.pdf></ref>

Shifa International Hospital Faisalabad Inaugurated on August 28, 2011, the hospital maintains the same standard of care as Shifa International Hospital Islamabad. <https://www.shifa.com.pk/shifa-faisalabad/></ref>

Fellowship Training Programs SIHL offers residency and fellowship training programs across 35 disciplines

Awards & Achievements Dr. Zeeshan Bin Ishtiaque has been featured in the book 100 CEOs & Diplomats of Pakistan, by CEO CLUB in 2024. <https://www.linkedin.com/posts/shifa-international-hospitals-limited_linkedincommunity-ceo-publications-activity-7237405696290353152-2bMt/></ref> Pakistan Stock Exchange recognized Shifa International Hospital as First Listed Hospital in Pakistan 29th Corporate Excellence Award by Management Association of Pakistan in 2014. <https://www.shifa.com.pk/mediarelease/></ref> 30th Corporate Excellence Award by Management Association of Pakistan in 2015. <https://mappk.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/30th-Corporate-Excellence-Awards.pdf></ref> CSR Award by National Forum for Environment & Health in January 2015. <https://www.shifa.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/sih-ar-2015.pdf></ref> 31st Corporate Excellence Award by Management Association of Pakistan in 2016. <https://mappk.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/32ND-CEA-RESULTS-FINAL_2.pdf></ref> 32nd Corporate Excellence Award by Management Association of Pakistan in 2017. <https://mappk.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/32ND-CEA-RESULTS-FINAL.pdf></ref> Ranked among the Top 25 companies by Pakistan Stock Exchange in 2016 & 2017 33rd Corporate Excellence Award by Management Association of Pakistan in 2018. <https://mappk.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/33rd-CEA-results-2.pdf></ref> 34th Corporate Excellence Award by Management Association of Pakistan in 2019. <https://mappk.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Results-of-34th-CEA-9-April-2019.pdf></ref> 35th Corporate Excellence Award by Management Association of Pakistan in 2020. <https://mappk.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/35th-CEA-Result.pdf></ref> 36th Corporate Excellence Award by Management Association of Pakistan in 2021. <https://mappk.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Winners-list-of-MAPs-36-cea.pdf></ref> 37th Corporate Excellence Award by Management Association of Pakistan in 2022. <https://mappk.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Winners-list-of-MAPs-37th-Corporate-Excellence-Awards-Held-on-3rd-October-2022-PDF.pdf></ref> ICCI 5th Business Excellence Award for the Highest Healthcare Employment Generator in the region on 21st July, 2022. <https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/977859-sih-gets-employment-generator-award></ref> Dr. Zaheer Ahmad & Shifa Faculty was recognized by 29th APPNA Convention for their support during 2005 earthquake. <https://www.appna.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/APPNA-2008-Winter-Journal.pdf></ref> Sitara-e-Imtiaz was awarded to Dr. Muhammad Amin in 2008 Dr. Zaheer Ahmad was conferred upon with posthumous Sitara-e-Imtiaz, by the State of Islamic Republic of Pakistan in 2012. <https://www.brecorder.com/news/50429></ref> Dr. Zaheer Ahmad received NPC Gold Medal in March 2009 and Overseas Pakistani Institute Award in August 1995. <https://tmfpakistan.org/our-founder/></ref> Tamgha-e-Imtiaz was awarded to Dr. M. Ali Afridi in 2012. <https://www.brecorder.com/news/4075054></ref> Tamgha-e-Imtiaz was awarded to Dr. Saeed Akhtar in 2012. <https://www.brecorder.com/news/4075054></ref> Sitara-e-Imtiaz was awarded to Dr. Faisal Saud Dar in 2016. <https://faisaldar.com/about-us/></ref>, <https://www.shifa.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/sih-ar-2015.pdf></ref> Sitara-e-Imtiaz was awarded to Dr. Syed M. Kamran Majeed in 2019. <https://www.dawn.com/news/1471417></ref> Dr. Manzoor H. Qazi was included in the 100 Performing CEO’s and Leaders of Pakistan by CEO CLUB in 2015. <https://www.shifa.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/sih-ar-2015.pdf></ref>

• Why it should be changed: The current content offers a very narrow scope of the organization’s history, services, and impact. Several basic facts and recent developments have been omitted which creates a partial representation of the organization that can mislead readers. Being one of the top-notch hospitals of the region, the page should have a comprehensive overview that reflects the organization’s scope and achievements. Some of the current details on the page are also outdated (e.g. the page shares a figure of 2018 for Liver transplants). The organization has undergone significant developments that are not reflected in the current version, such as new projects, and updated milestones. These updates are essential to maintain accuracy and ensure Wikipedia remains a reliable source of information. For example, SIHL is the complete acronym of the organization name, the hospital is a ‘quaternary care hospital not a ‘tertiary’. Also, it is a ‘private’ hospital not a ‘public’. We have more latest technologies at the hospital and are not limited to 640 slice CT scan and the hospital was incorporated on 29th September 1987, not ‘20th September 1987’. Moreover, there are grammatical errors on the page that give a bad impression to the readers. The information being requested consists of basic facts, such as key achievements, statistics, etc. These updates do not in any way aim to promote the organization. In fact, this aims to ensure that people have access to complete and up-to-date information. In compliance to Wikipedia's verifiability policy, I have also provided references from independent and third-party sources to support the accuracy of these facts. I understand Wikipedia’s policy to stay neutral and provide verifiable content, therefore have carefully curated the updates to align with these guidelines. My intention is not to remove well-sourced content from the page or market or promote the organization. Therefore, I request Wikipedia editors to review the proposed changes for inclusion. Thank you for your consideration.

Afsar Muhammad (talk) 11:21, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Most elements of this request are, I'm afraid, far too promotional. E.g. if you want to say that the company is distinguished for its [etc]' then you will need to provide very robust sourcing to demonstrate that independent sources have stated the same.

Lists of medical departments are simply promotional.

The lists of awards and achievements are grossly undue and promotional.

The lists of numbers of operations are certainly non-encyclopaedic and cannot be included.

The sourcing is, for the most part, entirely non-independent and derives from the subject's own website.

You have said above that These updates do not in any way aim to promote the organization. However, this is probably the most obviously promotional COI edit request that I have seen this year and I do not believe there is any prospect of any element of this request being adopted without significant change.

You seem to have mistaken an encyclopaedia for promotional brochure, but there is no place on Wikipedia for any kind of promotionalism. Axad12 (talk) 17:51, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Dear @Axad12,

Thank you for sharing your concerns. We respect the points you have raised and understand the importance of adhering to Wikipedia’s guidelines.

However, I am having difficulty understanding why a list of medical departments is considered ‘simply promotional’, especially when similar content is present on pages of similar organizations. Here are some examples of pages that list services, specialties, and facilities which, according to your standards, would also appear promotional:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Institute_of_Medical_Sciences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahore_General_Hospital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaukat_Khanum_Memorial_Cancer_Hospital_and_Research_Centre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Military_Hospital_Lahore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinnah_Hospital,_Lahore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahore_General_Hospital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaikh_Zayed_Hospital

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayo_Hospital

You also mentioned that ‘The lists of awards and achievements are grossly undue and promotional’, although majority include external links as reference supporting each award or achievement. Here’s how other similar pages have put them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayo_Clinic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkhidmat_Foundation_Pakistan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayo_Hospital

Additionally, could you clarify why factual updates and language corrections are being disregarded? For instance, we corrected details such as the incorporation date, clarified that Shifa is a private entity, specified its full name as Shifa International Hospitals Limited (SIHL), and updated its classification to a ‘quaternary care’ hospital. These points, however, have not been incorporated.

You also mentioned, 'The sourcing is, for the most part, entirely non-independent and derives from the subject's own website.' I believe information specific to the hospital, such as services, would naturally be available only on its website and should be sourced accordingly, as is done on other similar pages.

This raises concern that the hospital’s Wikipedia page contains only brief historical information, with most content focused on controversies. For an organization of this stature, a more balanced page might be appropriate. If controversies are emphasized, perhaps updates on these cases - some of which are sub judice - could be included to provide context and balance.

I am trying to better understand how Wikipedia works and how it ensures that content remains neutral, particularly in cases where content is created or edited by users who may unintentionally introduce bias. I would appreciate your guidance in understanding these processes and addressing the concerns I’ve outlined on behalf of my organization. Additionally, I would like to request that Wikipedia administrators review these concerns raised in good faith by an organization with a declared COI.

Thank you, and I look forward to your response and further guidance. Afsar Muhammad (talk) 11:26, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your note.

I simply observe that the fact that other articles may include promotional or undue information is not an argument for such information to be included here, it is an argument for it to removed elsewhere.

However, hopefully we shall receive further input from others in the not too distant future and we can see how things develop from there.

Kind regards, Axad12 (talk) 11:32, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi,

Thank you for your prompt response.

I will look forward to other responses.

Best regards, Afsar Muhammad (talk) 11:39, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Axad12,

I am getting back to you on a few queries I had in mind.

Firstly, if details about services and specialties are considered ’promotional’ or ‘undue information’, what would be the ideal content for an organization’s page? Because if sharing facts is not encyclopedic then what qualifies it as such? These facts are verifiable but may not necessarily be endorsed by third-party sources, so I would appreciate guidance on this aspect.

Moreover, I would like to understand, how negative information/controversies section serves the purpose of an encyclopedia?

Finally, I have repeatedly raised concerns about specific inaccuracies on the page, which remain unaddressed. Could these be reviewed to ensure the information presented is as accurate and neutral as possible?

I would be grateful if you could address all the concerns raised here so that I can have a clear picture of what to expect from the objections raised.

Best Regards, Afsar Muhammad (talk) 10:21, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi, unfortunately I don't have the time to address all of your queries, but I will give an in-depth answer to the issue of negative information/controversies, as I'm sure that this will be a matter of concern to you.

Wikipedia seeks to represent the coverage of the subject matter in reliable independent media sources regardless of whether that coverage is positive or negative. Therefore, if there is reliable independently sourced negative coverage it is reasonable for it to be included in a Wikipedia article and, to be very honest with you, it is then very difficult (virtually impossible) for it to be removed.

One issue, however, will be whether the amount of the article which is given over to negative coverage is due coverage, and this will to some extent be based on the length of the article. So, if you intend to dramatically extend the article then the amount of space which will be considered due space for negative coverage will increase.

Now, before I go any further I should state that I know nothing about healthcare in Pakistan and very little about which media outlets in Pakistan count as reliable sources (as per the relevant policy, WP:RS). I am also not in a position to say whether the material in the controversies section is true or false. However, that section appears (to the best of my knowledge) to be appropriate sourced. That said, I do think there would probably be an argument to be made that the amount of negative coverage is undue, as per the relevant policy, WP:DUE. Also there are problems with the way the material in that section has been written, for example there are no years provided in the first 2 paragraphs.

I do sympathise with your general situation, and I can understand why you would have sought to rewrite the entire article in (what I personally felt was) a very promotional way, removing the negative material.

What is really going to be required here is for the article to be taken to a position where the coverage in the article as a whole is neutral, i.e. neutral point of view (WP:NPOV). That means that the article will include positive information sourced to appropriate independent reliable sources, and negative information deriving from similar high quality sources. Ultimately there is plenty of discussion to be had on how that neutral position might be reached, but it will be by everything having a due amount of coverage, no promotional coverage and no unfair negative coverage. It will not be through having undue negative coverage sitting alongside highly promotional coverage.

I hope my comments here will be of assistance to you and demonstrate that there is almost certainly a way forward on this article which most parties will consider fair and accurate.

I think I would now prefer to let others comment. I have a volunteer colleague who has an interest in subjects based in Pakistan and I will contact him shortly to see if he would be prepared to share his thoughts.

Kind regards, Axad12 (talk) 10:57, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Axad12, I concur with what you said. The proposed changes by Afsar Muhammad are overly promotional and lack citations from independent RS. I suggest they submit edit requests one at a time to allow proper review of their proposed changes. Also, I reviewed the controversies section and the content is well-cited with RS, so it should remain as is. I noticed this article was recently edited heavily by socks. If Afsar Muhammad is indeed also a sock, they should declare it and request the unblocking of their original account. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 13:19, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

• The person requesting this edit is a sock of a blocked user. Girth Summit _(blether) 14:26, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

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