Talk:Satellite Spies/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

I updated this article, based on recent news about the fraudulent trademarks issue with the videos on YouTube. Excerpts of a recent interview with the original frontman of the band have been published by a leading music industry consultant, which places much of the information that was originally on this page in doubt.

Specifically, the sidebar claims that Satellite Spies have been active from 1985 onwards, when this is actually disputed. The other questionable sign from this page (ie: that it may have been written by someone who is actually involved with the band) is the strange sentence, which states the actual trademark numbers. Why would anyone feel the need to make note of the actual trademark ids in the text here, unless they were trying to convince themselves that the band had some authenticity?

219.89.72.167 (talk) 02:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I've made some rather dramatic changes to the article based on the references I've been able to find (which have been few). For the time being, the majority of the text is based on an interview of the frontman - I will be trying to track down additional references, especially those from the time when the band was active. I've also removed the disputed tag since I believe that the changes likely resolve the concerns that led to the tag - if I'm wrong or there's still something fishy about the article, please just let me know or feel free to put the tag back. Shell ^babelfish 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I reverted back to Shell Kinney's last version because Reactionaryprinciple had added back the same type of slander into the article that he had inserted earlier on - and Shell Kinney had spent considerable time removing and repairing the damage. Boatie62 (talk) 07:46, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Due to the nature and content of recent posts by DunedinYoh, I strongly suspect that person is Reactionaryprinciple (who was previously blocked from edits on this topic). I am reverting DunedinYoh edits on this topic because I know them to be incorrect, unsubstantiated and defamatory to a living person. Boatie62 (talk) 21:40, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

I edited this page because the article has indeed been a fabrication from inception; this being said - just because an individual makes a statement or a claim does not mean that this statement is true.

'Evidence' is offered here in the form of 'formal' record documentation; both Crown-based and/or other evidential information keeping; such as, a local 'New Zealand' Music Encyclopaedia Directory; as shown in the external links of the article. IMPORTANT NOTE: There is NO historical record of any objection being filed/lodged or received to any of the governmental intellectual property offices within the countries of registration during the past 25 years. Other internet organisations 'Senior Legal Executives' of U-tube, Google and i-Tunes, are currently engaging in communication with 'Intellectual Property Holders' for the purposes of removing use of said trademarks from the infringers work. PS: It is publically well known within New Zealand that during the 1990's and up to the mid/late 2000's Satellite Spies performed and recorded for many many years without any topic of conversation such as this. All of a sudden, during the past few years, an internet campaign focused upon multiple websites claiming to tell the truth utilising slanderous and misleading comments have emerged. It would appear very simple - in that, if Mark Loveys feels he has any rights to the said trademarks - he should challenge them in Court. However - for over the past 25 years he has NOT done so. It would seem obvious - therefore, I rest my case.

NOTE: NO, I am not reactprincipal as suggested by Boatie62 — Preceding unsigned comment added by DunedinYoh (talk • contribs) 06:19, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I request that the version of the article by DunedinYoh currently on view be reverted to the version that was researched, validated and written by Wikipedia moderator Shell Kinney on June 8th 2009. My primary reason for this request is that the current version contains libellous, incorrect and unsupported statements about Mark Loveys, who is a living person.

Trade Marks are not relevant to this article because it is about a band that operated in the 1980's, before the Trade Marks in question were secretly registered. Mark Loveys has not bothered with the expensive process of getting the trade marks overturned (yet) because he has been professionally advised that they are not worth the paper they are written on (due to the dishonest way they were filed) and he has no interest in using the name Satellite Spies other than in referring to the 1980's band, its history, songs and videos - that were all recorded before the Trade Marks were registered.

Anybody wanting to verify the validity of my argument should read the legal advice given to Mark Loveys by his specialist IP lawyer - Google search on "Satellite Spies Wayne Hudson". For history of this argument, read the email to Mark from the band's record producer, manager and owner of Mandrill Recording Studios, Glyn Tucker, by Google Searching "Satellite Spies Glyn Tucker". Boatie62 (talk) 08:03, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

For an article about a band, the fact it is recommending searching for specific copyrights to back-up claims of fraud is ridiculous. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a soap-box for an angry fan. I agree, it should be edited or reverted. 83.70.170.48 (talk) 08:11, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I think it imperative that the ex-member Loveys last performed with this band during the late 1980's; while this Sutherland guy published compositions during the 1990's, and in particular 1999 to high commercial success. I believe this article to be reasonably accurate - upon further investigation through various web-pages; it appears there is an attempt to portray that Sutherland quit the band. However - I did find an interesting newspaper article, originally published in the North Shore Times, in Auckland North, dated Tuesday the 29th of September 1987; in which Sutherland was interviewed (by a Michael O'Keef), which states "Deane Sutherland is the frontman for leading rock group, Satellite Spies). It would seem clear that Sutherland never quit this band; because this date is over six months following Loveys claim that Sutherland had quit the band in early 1987; this misinformation has been spread by some web-based propaganda - that appears to be linked to Loveys through association. In view of these events and records, I feel strongly that this article should stay as it is; and be protected from being subject to ongoing malicious editing to project misleading misinformation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.37.160 (talk) 10:41, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Sutherland does not appear in 3 of the Satellite Spies videos shown on YouTube that were recorded in the late 1980's. This would indicate that he left or quit the band at that time.

27.252.68.243 (talk) 11:42, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

No he wasnt because thats not the original band. Sutherland was touring Australia with Satellite Spies. Loveys made up another band and used the name which belongs to Sutherland. Hence the comment on you tube "Who are these guys? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.37.160 (talk) 23:42, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

A most fascinating palaver, I must say; I was so curious, with regard to this matter – I have executed my own investigation in the historical record. I have not been able to find any formal music industry record of Mark Loveys being with the band since the mid-late 1980’s. The only record log of ‘Satellite Spies’ with (R.I.A.N.Z.), and contemporary media outlets is Deane Sutherland (alias - Tommy Joy) being promoted as ‘Satellite Spies’ during the 1990’s and early-mid 2000’s. Well known New Zealand magazines, such as 'Rit it Up' and 'NZ Musician' also have featured adverts or editorials on Satellite Spies in 2009/2010; wherein Deane Sutherland is in the promotional photograph - while Mark Loveys is nowhere to be seen. I also contacted a Music Producer listed in the article, within the external links, as it stands; a Mr Bruce Lynch – whom stated he is presently arranging and remixing material with Satellite Spies, and that he hasn’t had any dealings with or heard of Mark Loveys within the music industry since the mid-late 1980’s. Being further curious, I tried to search on the net, that ‘North Shore Times’ article highlighted within an earlier comment, in this ‘Talk Page’; I wasn’t able to locate it – so, being rather frustrated I went to a North Auckland library and found it in the newspaper archives; it states, as previously quoted, that the Front Man of ‘Satellite Spies’ is a Deane Sutherland (and it is dated late 1987). Loveys appears to have created the rumour that Sutherland quit in early 1987 – this appears misinformation, and coupled together with other falsities generated and promoted by Loveys through the internet. I also telephoned some News Media (in particular the ‘Sunday News’ & ‘The Sunday Star Times’) and spoke to the sub-editor; a Mr Neil Reid – he confirmed during the 1990’s and 2000’s, Deane Sutherland was the driving force behind the band, and furthermore, that Mark Loveys has not been with the musical group since the late 1980’s. He also, that he is surprised by the apparent actions of Mark Loveys – he also informed me that Mr Loveys is at present busy on a Corporate Board for a powerful and influential organisation named SAP. I am at loss to understand what is the motivation here. Stan, Whangaparoa, Auckland North. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.234.162.200 (talk) 03:41, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Stan - I'm sorry to say that your research time has been wasted. Nobody is arguing that Mark Loveys was in the band that called itself Satellite Spies in the 1990's and perhaps 2000's. What is being argued is that Deane Sutherland quit Satellite Spies in 1987 (immediately before a large Satellite Spies nationwide tour of New Zealand) and thereby relinquished his claim that his 1990's band that he calls Satellite Spies is the same band that recorded the Destiny in Motion album in the 1980's. These are totally different bands, except that he played guitar in both. There are plenty of witnesses to the fact that he quit in 1987, including Mark Loveys, Glyn Tucker (read Glyn Tucker's email about it by Google searching "Satellite Spies Glyn Tucker"), Gordon Joll, Brett Adams, Tim Wedde among others. Satellite Spies continued touring, performing and recording songs & videos through the late 1980's after Deane Sutherland departed. These songs and videos that Satellite Spies produced after Deane Sutherland departed are easily located on the Internet today.

The Trade Marks that have been referred to above are irrelevant to this Wiki article because this article is/(was supposed to be) about a band called "Satellite Spies" that existed solely during the 1980's - before Deane Sutherland registered his trade marks. If you refer to the letter from the IP lawyer that Mark Loveys engaged to check the legality of the trade marks you'll see that Mark Loveys has in no way infringed anything to do with those trade marks (Google search "Satellite Spies Wayne Hudson"). Therefore the last paragraph of the current version of the article as it stands today needs to be removed immediately, because it wrongly states that Mark Loveys is acting illegally, when this is clearly not the case. Boatie62 (talk) 04:47, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you to administrator JohnCD for removing the defamatory statement about Mark Loveys from the last paragraph as I requested above.

Last night I located another source of information about Satellite Spies, in a blog called "Deleting Music" by prominent music industry researcher, writer, lecturer Andrew Dubber. You can Google search "Deleting Music Destiny in Motion" to find it. The article contains an interview with Mark Loveys discussing the Satellite Spies & Deane Sutherland naming debacle. Even more relevant are the responses at the end of the article. I encourage anyone interested in this subject to read all of the responses, including those by Mike Bouwmeester of Blase and Glyn Tucker the band's record producer. Also of special interest are comments by Darren Gedye and JJBug who went to see what they thought was Satellite Spies in the 1990's, only to find out it was a totally different band playing "average covers".

In summary, there is an abundance of evidence on the Internet today from very credible people, that runs contrary to what DunedinYoh has posted about Satellite Spies. There is no doubt that Deane Sutherland did set up another band that he called Satellite Spies in the 1990's and tried to pass it off as the original band by claiming continuity of his membership of the band. I can only guess as to what his motives were for doing that.

Given the controversy, this article needs to be fully verifiable with credible sources, like the version that Wikipedia moderator Shell Kinney produced on 8th June 2009. It should probably acknowledge that there were two different bands that used the name in two different decades. This widens the scope of the article, but may serve to lessen the degree of confusion and disagreement.

Boatie62 (talk) 19:30, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Hey there

I've been advised that my previous comment has been removed......by 'someone' (Mark loveys ??). I"d be interested to know why someone would do that ? I worked for satellite spies for several years from 94 to 2001. Had a LOT to do with the operations of the band on the road as I was road crew manager (a hands on role). Deane Sutherland and the boys wont forget me in a hurry lmfao !

I guess in that time frame I was responsible for setting up about 350 gigs. So I DO KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. This was a very unusual job and interesting to say the least - never boring. Hellish hard yakka and not enough sleep were about the order of the day. Still I wouldn't have done it if I didn't enjoy it.

lets see if I can remember some of the road crew

Ryan, Sid, Young Paul (sometimes known for good reason as 'Last",) Ro, (now deceased, Paul the drunk, Donald

Um......and undoubably many I can't recall. As the nature of the job was busy busy busy the boys didn't really last too long I think they all joined up thinking girls/parties/etc etc.....and got a hell of a shock when the work was required. I was always the first out of bed as I had to get the others up and organised to packup or travel to the next show. It was difficult to get them up sometimes I'd say "You got five minutes to get up" then I'd go back in there after that time was up .....of course they were always reluctant to get out of bed (specially in the middle of the night after not enough sleep) but I'd rip the blankets off them. That worked pretty well as it's not the same trying to sleep with no blankets. We had a LOT of fun and it's always neat to turn up to a venue because people are always happy to see the band show up.

Deane Sutherland (the band leader) and I often had a very LOUD relationship with many 'discussions' and we sometimes hated each other (specially on tour when long days/not enough sleep and living in each others pockets puts a lot of stress on us all)........however we are great friends of course now-a-days.

DRC

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.97.155.124 (talk) 23:51, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Very shocking, although interesting - what a saga; BUT HEY! I have found out some interesting "FACTS" folks; this so-called prominent music industry researcher, lecturer, a certain "ANDREW DUBBER"; whom compiled this blog "Deleting Music"; that BOATIE62 is referring to - is none other than a FAMILY member of Mark Loveys; WOAH, "OH MY GOD" - how 'LOW' will this guy Loveys sink trying to rig a reality story like this; maybe he wants to reclaim his lost youth or something, like a mid-life crisis; and organising a family member to write a one-sided seemingly totally biased story of fiction is deplorable. I went to "Just Plain Interesting" in West Auckland, whom I was informed had a second hand copy of the old vinyl "DESTINY IN MOTION" album with Loveys and Joy (Sutherland) on the reverse cover; while reading through all the jargon, I came across the name Glyn Tucker of 'Reaction Records' BOATIE62 mentions; Tucker, whom apparently owned ‘Reaction Records’ in the 1980’s, has included on the reverse side; a certain "GLENN HOLLAND" character, who is thanked by TUCKER; If Loveys is attempting to accumulate credibility through bringing “Tucker” into the mix, He’s insane – “Because”, Glyn Tucker is associated with this GLENN HOLLAND person, whom I have just found out is a CONVICTED “Paedophile” and has featured on 20/20 and 60 Minutes in Australia and New Zealand - If Tuckers credibility in the New Zealand Music Business, (coupled together with his partnering-up with this “HOLLAND CHARACTER”, a convicted Paedophile), is his attempt to con us all - I feel he is more stupid than he looks. Sutherland, (if he is indeed that same “JOY” character) has been with the same SATELLITE SPIES band from its beginnings - so, if Loveys is NO longer with the band - he should just STOP being an absolute PLONKER....................I more I find out about this LOVEYS’ intention to character assassinate Sutherland, the worse Loveys sinks into the abyss of LIES & DECEPTION. Grow-up and move on BOATIE62 (or maybe it is Mr Loveys ? ? ?) What year was Mark Loveys born? Was it ‘62’. NO else cares that you aren't in the band anymore. Where is your evidence anyway? I have been looking ‘HIGH and LOW’ – LOVEYS and BOATIE62 just make libellous remarks with just 'HERESAY' quotes and nothing substantial - I AM WITH STAN, of Whangaparoa. (GO HOME BOATIE 62 and give us something formally evidential PLEASE? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.37.160 (talk) 04:25, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Andrew Dubber declares his connection with Mark Loveys in the opening sentences of his article. There is nothing underhand about that.

You are getting in to very murky waters with your personal defamatory attacks.

I am only concerned with preserving accurate historical record of Satellite Spies and the fact that you Deane Sutherland are trying to distort it for your own perceived benefit. I am talking about identity theft.

You are fooling nobody with your attempt at multiple identities in this argument and burying my argument in your vast volumes of nonsense. Anyone reading this should run the Google searches I have recommended above to get the real story of this argument. They are "Satellite Spies Glyn Tucker" and "Satellite Spies Wayne Hudson" and "Deleting Music Destiny in Motion".

Boatie62 (talk) 15:41, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Request closed as article is not protected anymore. FloBo A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 13:10, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Do we actually want this article at all?

It is not clear from the references that this band meets the notability requirements of WP:BAND, and the article is evidently a magnet for edit-warring and personal attacks. Perhaps it would be better, and certainly less trouble, to delete it and let the warring parties conduct their feud elsewhere. Any comments from users without a COI? JohnCD (talk) 17:05, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Im a woman with children and have NEVER been in a band. Take a good look in the mirror Boatie 62. Get your facts straight before you accuse me of being someone else. Im being honest about what I know because the public deserve the truth. Loveys left the band and Sutherland toured Austalia. Sutherland owns the trademark and Loveys has no write to use it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.37.160 (talk) 21:33, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Just finished Unitec; I am sitting down at the Dolce Vita cafe`, enjoying a juice.

A mate of mine informed me of this dispute - so I had a dig. The previous pages written and/or edited by a BOATIE62 included the hit single release "It Must Be Love".

This in itself should point to the reality that the other guy, with the dark hair and earring cross, (Alias Tommy Joy/Sutherland) never left this musical group; even BOATIE62has included this song in his previous edit - which indicates that BOATIE62 also agrees it is relevant.

The video does not feature a Mark Loveys however - (the Red Head guy) so - it would seem elementary that Loveys finished up at the end of the 1980's. END OF STORY.

If it is true that Sutherland holds the registered trademarks - for as many years as he claims; then surely, there should be no further discussion.

I'd leave the edit as it is - It seems to be truthful to me.

LET's move on please. Love, Amanda, Point Chev, Auckland, NEW ZEALAND Music fan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.252.98.80 (talk) 02:14, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Reaction Records owns the rights!

I feel obliged to bring some sanity and truth to this ridiculous dispute. Wikepedia as it stands today, is publishing a very untrue story. If you want the full history, go to my contribution at http://www.satellitespies.net.nz/TradeMarks.html

I am the rightful copyright owner of the music recorded by Mark Loveys' band, Satellite Spies.

I signed a recording contract dated 1 january 1985 with Mark Loveys and Deane Sutherland, under the band name Satellite Spies. So I don't care how many trademarks Sutherland wants to take out, the songs we recorded between 1985 and 1988 under the terms of that contract pre-date his "trademarks" which are therefore worthless. His version of Satellite Spies is no more than a FAKE. I shall continue use the name, on all re-releases of Destiny in Motion and other songs I championed and recorded, as I am entitled to.

The contract that Sutherland signed on 1 Jan 85, assigned all those performing rights to Reaction; INCLUDING THE NAME, SATELLITE SPIES.!!!!! For him to have gone off a couple of years later and register a trademark was not only foolish, but was also in breach of that contract. Reaction never released Sutherland from his contract, that ran for 5 years, thus terminating 31 Dec 1989. I could sue him; but what;s the point?

When Sutherland went off to form another band, he should have come up with a new name rather than steal the name of Mark Loveys' band. Had he done so, he would have no conflict today.

For the record; without Mark Loveys there would never have been a Satellite Spies. As CEO of Reaction Records the talent I really signed was Mark Loveys' songs, Mark Loveys' voice, and Mark Lovey' musicianship. Tommy Joy (aka Sutherland) was no more than a back-up guitarist.

Get real Tommy Joy; you're making an ass of yourself here! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glyntucker (talk • contribs) 08:48, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

It is a pity that a record company, although now struck off the company register; is wading into murky waters; (Q - if one party within a contract is defunct, does that void the whole contract now?)

REMEMBER - what happened to New Zealand's Sharon O'Neill and America's PRINCE - them both being halted from trading due to "Corporate Dictatorial Action". My Mum knows Mike Chunn, (an individual highly respected within New Zealand and internationally as a New Zealand Music Spokesperson, Ex-A.P.R.A CEO etc); I asked her to quiz Mr Chunn with regard to Tucker this morning and who he was.

Apparently, Tucker hasn't been in the music record business for over twenty years professionally; so, I also tracked a Bruce Lynch down, as listed on the SATELLITE SPIES Wiki article, and he was forth coming with info on Mr Tucker, via other references and contacts to talk to. Tucker lost all his credibility within the New Zealand Music Business years ago; especially with Music Industry Professionals such as Dave Hurley; also many other New Zealand Bands, such as 'The Mockers', through his actions playing HARD BALL, and making it difficult for them to gain access to their OWN music that Tucker had recorded in his, now defunct, Mandrill Recording Studios. NOTE: Is it true that Tuckers business associate, GLENN HOLLAND, worked with Tucker on albums during the 1980’s? (As mention by an earlier comment). If this is true – it only adds fuel to the fire regarding Tuckers Business ethics and through's his character into question (if it wasn’t already through what I have read and had revealed to me).

I am going to contact this Sutherland/Joy guy, via his Satellite Spies Facebook page, and ask him to comment on this TALK PAGE; and get his take on the vicious attacks by Tucker and BOATIE62; and ask if we can critique` this old Reaction Record contract Tucker speaks of. We should all be concerned if the ‘Tuckers’ of this world and their corporations steal bands names.

What I have heard and read about Tucker makes me realise how lucky we all are, that he is NO longer operating within the New Zealand Music Business. What a nasty character, JESUS, woah………………………………………………. I wasn't aware record companies usually OWN band names; I assumed they only owned the recordings. Hmmmmmmmmmm..................................

All the other comments listed here in this TALK PAGE paint an ugly picture of harassment and an operation of MISINFORMATION by Tucker and author Boatie62; I haven't read any abusive, nasty or insulting comments from Sutherland or Joy.

I suggest we get his input on the matter and get back to you all. I'M ON TO IT. I will do this today.

Darryl Sang, Ellerslie, Auckland — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.98.169.230 (talk) 02:45, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Darryl Sang You are getting in way over your head, my friend. When you have done your research and talked with all the people you have named I'll consider accepting your apology. They will all tell you, if I say I have a signed contract, you can bet your life on it, matey! Glyn Tucker — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glyntucker (talk • contribs) 09:39, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Greetings Wikipedia Talk Page: my name is Deane Sutherland; I formed “SATELLITE SPIES” in 1984/85. I comment on the dispute contested within this Talk Page.

FIRSTLY – it is of great pity that specific individuals operate their conversations in a manner not deserving to an educational organisation; that is, unsavoury remarks and uncouth verbal behaviour and threats. HOWEVER - To the best of my knowledge ‘Reaction Records Limited’ were “NEVER” sold or contracted the rights and/or ownership of my band name EVER.

I am in possession of a ‘Record Contract’ original that bound me and a Mark Loveys to a recording deal during the mid 1980’s, by Tuckers company.

It is true, (and recorded within the clauses of this said contract), that ‘Reaction Records Limited’ owns all the recordings of tracks worked on at Tuckers (now) defunct ‘Mandrill Recording Studios’ during the eighties. This contract, which I still have in my possession, CLEARLY states the two committing parties were “REACTION RECORDS/MANDRILL MUSIC” AND “DEANE LEWIS SUTHERLAND” and “MARK CLAMPITT LOVEYS”. I was informed at the time of this contract signing Tucker didn’t have a band name for this new recording project – therefore LOVEYS and I would be signed as individuals.

I discussed with Tucker, (i.e. I shared with him the knowledge), I had had a new band name, ”SATELLITE SPIES” on my mind since the “Tomorrows Partys” days (this being a band I had been asked to join in the early 1980’s). Tucker liked the sound of this name very much and asked me if he could utilise the “SATELLITE SPIES” banner to release BLASE` songs under. I agreed, to Tucker request, provided that this project could utilise the band name for this one album; but in NO way were I agreeing to sign over the name ownership to him and/or RECATION RECORDS LIMITED; which is why Loveys and I were signed as individuals to his Record Company.

Tucker asked me if he could add the “SATELLITE SPIES” name into the contract clauses – I SAID NO WAY – however, I eventually agreed that it would be acceptable to me if SATELLITE SPIES was “ONLY” included in the appendices; this being as a band name I gave him verbal permission to use at that time; this being for use with the release of the “Destiny in Motion” album and the singles from that said album. (Included within the said ‘Reaction Records’ contract, it states clauses, that ‘Reaction Records’ has the option to use other band names it deems suitable). Mr Tucker attempted to add the mention of SATELLITE SPIES onto one page (Tucker was in such a hurry in his attempt to include my trade name - he spelt incorrectly – on one page there is mention of a “SATTELITE SPIES”, and even then it is only referred to a Professional name. (No clauses accompanying however).

I have presented this contract to the intellectual property legal firm “JAMES & WELLS”, whom also work for A.P.R.A within New Zealand; they have assured me that this 1984 contract in no way gives Reaction Records and/or Mr Tucker exclusivity or ownership over my trade name; except for use in 1985 release of the Destiny in Motion album, singles and accompanying video’s. James & Wells have, however, confirmed that Reaction/Mandrill Music owns all the recordings and songs. Principal partner Ceri Wells has also stated that any party, within the said record contract, leaving, quitting and/or resigning from the said contract must do so in writing; I never resigned from the contract – the contract ran its course and is now expired. If Mr Tucker and Loveys state I quit; they should provide proof of such claim.

NO where in this 1980’s Record Company contract does it state that TUCKER has ownership or a license to use this trade name presently; there are NO clauses stating REACTION RECORDS LIMITED or MANDRILL MUSIC has any rights to own the trade name.

I heard rumours, from other musicians whom also had trouble dealing with TUCKER during the 1980’s, that Tucker liked the trade name ‘Satellite Spies’ intensely, and he had designs to keep using the band name while I was overseas touring; without my permission and knowledge – I decided to file my trademark prior to SATELLITE SPIES departing for Australia to record and tour (without Loveys, whom had departed the band and decided to attend university to forward his computer software design career, to protect myself from Reaction Records and Tucker) . While overseas it became evident that Tucker and Loveys devised a scheme that they would use my trade name while I was “OUT OF TOWN” and unawares.

I await contact by “The New Zealand Task Force”.

Deane Sutherland/Satellite Spies Founder — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.37.160 (talk) 06:48, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Dear Wikipedia (Copyright and Talk Page); please view inclusive statement and relevant corporate information.

This contribution is jointly offered by S.E.R.L. Science Trustee Limited (company number 1573935) and Keith G Moyle.

As proprietors of registered trademarks 171870, 703757 and 807701 (as recorded and listed with the Intellectual Property Office of New Zealand); and the proprietors of registered trademark 977287 (as recorded and listed with Intellectual Property Australia); we inform that DEANE LEWIS SUTHERLAND has exclusive license to use these trademarks as the founding musician of the SATELLITE SPIES; that is, the New Zealand based professional musical trading entity.

Yours faithfully,

S.E.R.L Science Trustee Limited Directors: Michael David SUTHERLAND and Jill Suzanne Kennedy-Smith

and

Keith Geoffrey Moyle

---

A few points I would like to state or restate; 1. The above Trade Marks are irrelevant to this discussion because they were registered after the Satellite Spies recorded their material. They were also registered without the knowledge of other people that had and still have rights to the name Satellite Spies. The trade marks will never stand up if challenged, but most importantly they are irrelevant to this discussion. 2. Anyone who doubts that the trade marks are irrelevant should read the legal advice of one of NZ's top intellectual property lawyers on this subject, by Google searching "Satellite Spies Wayne Hudson". 3. Anyone who reads the many entries in this argument above that oppose me, will notice that they are mostly all written in the same distinctive wild abusive style and would therefore be highly likely to have been written by the same person - even though they are signed off by a multitude of different names. This is referred to by Wikipedia as "Sock Puppetry" which is the dishonest use of multiple identities to make it appear that you have wider support. 4. The personal attacks on Glyn Tucker above are an outrage. Glyn Tucker is one of NZ's most respected record producers who was behind so many of the records, acts and bands that helped to define NZ's musical identity over several decades. He does not deserve to be treated in this disrespectful manner by Mr Sutherland. There would be no Satellite Spies if not for Glyn Tucker. 5. In answer to JohnCD's question about whether this article should be deleted; I would have to say regretfully, that this argument is not likely to be resolved. I can easily prove that my version of events is the truth (as I've done above), but to do that I have to refer to credible music industry people that know the truth of Satellite Spies (of which there are many). However that only puts them in the firing line of Mr Sutherland's abuse, which is not fair on them. I therefore regretfully recommend that this article be deleted. Boatie62 (talk) 11:31, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

It is imperative evidence, not allegations and biased web page propaganda programmers, be the source of accurate assessment in this dispute; therefore, in closing I offer this following “External Link” (listed below) as proof “MARK LOVEYS” was indeed not an operating member of SATELLITE SPIES, as he is attempting to convince everyone; whereas Deane Sutherland was recording and touring, performing live as professional full time musician with his band ‘Satellite Spies’ in Australia and in Great Britain at the time Loveys was working full time on a computer software business he as setting up and developing. Mark Loveys was during the late 1980’s -

The Founder & CEO of “Orbit Software Ltd” January 1989– June 1995 (6 years 6 months)

PLEASE CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW AND VIEW THE EVIDENCE FOR YOURSELF. (Just shown above the heading “Mark Loveys' Projects”

External link

• Mark Loveys

END OF STORY — Preceding unsigned comment added by DunedinYoh (talk • contribs) 11:59, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Please allow this page to stand as it is - for reasons being; that it contains important historical details of a very well known New Zealand Musical group from the 1980's, 1990's and 2000's.

The article is informative, educational and accurate - it contains only facts and features NO negative or abusive editing of any variety.

The subject matter here is true and factual, to the best of my knowledge, and this declaration has been supported by crucial evidence provided to the copyright section of Wikipedia (i.e. Robert Johnson)

I respectfully request this article remain as it is and not be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DunedinYoh (talk • contribs) 12:26, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Mr. Deane Sutherland, for your most interesting and creative story. Here are my credentials....

GLYN TUCKER

1975-1996 MANDRILL RECORDING STUDIOS LTD MANAGING DIRECTOR (founder)

1980-1990 REACTION RECORDS LTD MANAGING DIRECTOR (founder) In tandem with Mandrill Recording Studios Ltd I set this company up to develop new original talent, sign contracts, and market their recordings via licensing with major labels.

INDUSTRY AWARDS AND POSITIONS HELD AXIS AWARD To Glyn Tucker for craft excellence 1987 MOBIUS AWARD To Mandrill; Top radio commercial 1992 22 GOLD ALBUMS To Glyn Tucker and/or Mandrill 3 PLATINUM ALBUMS To Glyn Tucker and/or Mandrill

CHAIRPERSON, IMPPA 1987-1990 (Independent Music Producers and Performers Association) DIRECTOR, NZ COMPOSERS FOUNDATION (funded by APRA) 1985-1995 MEMBER OF APRA (Australasian Performing Rights Association) MEMBER OF RIANZ (Recording Industry Association of NZ)

I am gratified that your latest version of the formation of Satellite Spies at least acknowledges Reaction Records' rights over the songs recorded under the terms of the contract. It puzzles me that you went out of your way to try and stop Mark Loveys from putting videos on You Tube and other internet sites, when you knew full well that Mark had my permission to do so. However, you do not have my permission to offer free downloads on your website of “Destiny in Motion” sung by Mark Loveys. That constitutes passing your band off as the original, which it is not! I suggest you remove it today.

After all these years I don't care what you do with the band name anymore. You have already sullied it through your actions. All I want is for NZ pop/rock history to record the true facts and give the original Mark Loveys' band it's true place. Because I signed both you and Mark to my label as a duo, I am only here on Wikipedia to be a referee and see that justice is done. Your slanderous and defamatory accusations against me do not help, Darryl. (D.S., yes I got it Deane)

Here is a brief timeline of the events leading up to the formation of the band.

1983 Tucker begins working with and mentoring Loveys and his band, Blasé. 1984 Tucker takes demo tapes to MIDEM festival, Cannes,to seek international interest.Interest is secured but band name must be changed. 1984 Tucker secures UK producer Tim Palmer to produce the first album under the name Satellite Spies and Sutherland is invited to join the band. 1985 Loveys and Sutherland sign a recording contract with Reaction as a duo, named Satellite Spies. 1/1/1985. The contract gave Reaction options for 5 years. 1985 Reaction produces a video of the first single, “Destiny in Motion” and the album and single do well on radio and the charts. 1986 Satellite Spies open for Dire Straits throughout NZ. More than 140,000 concert-goers witnessed the original Satellite Spies, with Mark Loveys' distinctive lead vocals. 1986 Loveys and Sutherland split. Tucker is happy to record a second album with Loveys and his new band and consequently takes up the second year option on the contract. Tucker has no interest in recording Sutherland, but nevertheless Sutherland was not released from the contract. 1987 Mark Loveys' Satellite Spies record a new album, released singles, and videos, and tour NZ extensively. 1987 Unbeknown to Tucker or Loveys, Sutherland applies to register his “Trademark” on the name Satellite Spies. 1988 The original band breaks up before the second album is released. 1988 – 1990's I find out that Sutherland is passing his band off as Satellite Spies. The rest is of no consequence.

Conclusions: At the very least, Sutherland's trademark on a name which was already well established, and one that he had no legal right to, was in bad faith. Notwithstanding the above, Reaction maintains the right to re-issue music and videos of performances made under that contract; namely the first two albums and all songs recorded between 1985 and 1988. Sutherland has further breached the contract by recording his own version of Loveys' composition, Destiny in Motion. (although he may never have released it to the public)

Most bands have a key member, or members. They are usually the singer, or the song-writer. My sole interest in Satellite Spies was the talent I perceived in Mark Loveys. and Mark Loveys alone. I had never heard Sutherland play or sing before signing him. Mark said he would be good, so I went with it. As long as Mark was under contract along with the name we created during the 1985-1986 period, then I was confident we could continue to produce some good records.

This will be my final post to this site. I have alife to get on with. This is just total nonsense. Wikipedia. Either contact me or the CEO of Recording Industry Association of NZ, to verify all of the above, or close down all reference to Satellite Spies. As it stands right now the first sentence is offensive in its falsification.

This will be my last word on this issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glyntucker (talk • contribs) 23:59, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I write here to comment, with regard, to Mr Tucker’s claims and misleading & insulting statements: Firstly, I have only stated ‘FACTS’, as I know them to be – I have not included libellous remarks, which include abusive language. (Unfortunately TUCKER & LOVEYS within previous comments, have lowered the tone), not to mention nasty, derogatory statements, sourced back to LOVEYS and TUCKER, on random web pages with regard to SUTHERLAND and his character).

Very recently ‘Tucker’ and ‘Loveys’ have made an attempt to undo the damage they have done over the years to their industry credibility – through trying to re-build bridges they burnt years ago; for example - attempting to win back the favour of BRUCE LYNCH (New Zealand Premier Music Producer) – In that, I was just enjoying a friendly telephone call with “BRUCE LYNCH” about all this, whom informed me, MARK LOVEYS has been attempting to contact him (for the first time in over twenty five years); Loveys and Tucker must be worried that someone of LYNCH’s calibre, (who also knows the truth), is going to hurt their efforts in proceeding with their charade, not to mention their outrageous claims.

NO one has ever disputed that REACTION Records Limited, owns the old 1980’s recordings – that is clear and has never been disputed; HOWEVER – Tucker and his defunct company (the other part in the contract, besides the individual artists) never has or never did ever have a monopoly over the trading name.

Tucker can re-release old recordings to Kingdom Come; if he so desires – it doesn’t change the reality that therein sits NO clause, within this OLD record contract, stating TUCKER or REACTION RECORDS, had or has, any exclusivity over the use of the SATELLITE SPIES trade name, (except therein the 1985 – 1987 period, when Deane Sutherland (alias, Tommy Joy) was recording with REACTION RECORDS).

CONCLUSION: The Record Contracts binding agreements main purpose was for TUCKER to maintain his monopoly, of all recorded works, through his indirect ownership of all recordings; be it video, audio and/or song ownership. I’m extremely relieved, like many other New Zealand musicians from the 1980’s, that I don’t have to associate with him any further; and more importantly, I didn’t sign over my band name proprietorship to him (as he claims) in any contract. NB: (JAMES & WELLS Intellectual Property, in Auckland) have confirmed, to me, they as well cannot find any clause, within this old record contract, that surrenders the SATELLITE SPIES name to TUCKER and/or his now defunct company (the other party in that contract).

“FROM THE MOUTHS OF BABES” and I quote from Tuckers own paragraph - from his last & final comment. (i.e. according to him; BUT, let’s wait and see if he keeps his word). PLEASE VIEW BELOW – penned from Tuckers own hand. “Reaction maintains the right to re-issue music and videos of performances made under that contract; namely the first two albums and all songs recorded between 1985 and 1988”.

There it is folks - no mention in the OLD expired record contract, of REACTION ever having the exclusive use, or the liberty of monopoly over ANY trade names, at all. TIME TO MOVE ON NOW................... PS: I used to love that ‘IAN MOSS’ rendition of ‘DON WALKERS’ song “TUCKERS DAUGHTER” – but now, however (sadly) – it has TOTALLY lost its appeal, although highly relevant.

Ben Campbell, Auckland (Road Crew Manager for Satellite Spies 1991 - 1994) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DunedinYoh (talk • contribs) 03:07, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Dear Wikipedia -

I am sitting here with previous TALK PAGE commentators DRC (Perry Shilton), an ex-manager of the band, (he now works for the Hamilton airport, and lives in Cambridge, New Zealand), and Ben Campbell from Auckland, whom lives in Manurewa (an ex-employee and good friend) and myself Deane Sutherland of SATELLITE SPIES.

We have been perusing over all the comments - THE FOLLOWING NEEDS TO BE SAID.

This is just a short and brief IMPORTANT note - If Boatie62 (MARK LOVEYS) and Mr Tucker assume` that I am creating false identities on this talk page; I strongly urge them and anyone else who is interested to investigate where the internet comment transmissions originated from (i.e. what region of New Zealand) (this should be very easy for BOATIE62, because he is the present Chairman at SAP, Business One Solution Partner Advisory Council, CEO at Enprise Solutions Ltd, and has owned various computer software companies including extensive internet knowledge).

Commentators, such as the following:

1/ the STAN guy from Whangaparoa

2/ DRC an ex-roadie for the band - who lives down south.

3/ the person whom commented in response to BOATIE62, mid-way through comment board (a comment directly following the DRC comment)

4/ a Darryl Sang (in Ellerslie)

5/ a lady named Amanda, in Point Chev.

They will be found to be generated from real people. PLEASE INVESTIGATE Wikipedia.

STOP SPREADING misleading information BOATIE62 and MR TUCKER.

Deane Sutherland / Papakura — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.10.102 (talk) 03:51, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

No more edit warring

Wikipedia is not the place for you to conduct your interminable squabbles. Anyone connected with the band has a WP:Conflict of interest and should not be editing the article directly, but may make suggestions on this talk page for changes intended to improve the article for readers of the encyclopedia, not to grind axes for one side or other in the dispute. Anyone who edit wars to insert or remove material may be blocked from editing. The article will be reduced to a neutrally-worded history of the band, so far as that can be verified from reliable sources. This talk page is only for discussion of the article and possible improvements to it, not for re-hashing grievances and accusations and counter-accusations. JohnCD (talk) 10:34, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Please Read - I promise I come in peace!

Hi there,

I'm sorry to butt in here - but I am a Musicology student at The University of Auckland in my fifth year of study, and I have been following this interestingly odd saga over the past few years. I first heard about this on the radio originally. I realize that I come here as a stranger, that neither of you know me, but I would appreciate it if you would hear what I have to say.

To be quite honest, I've never seen anything like this before in the history of Popular Music, well, anywhere! But to start, I want to share a little wisdom. If there is one important thing I have learnt in my field of work, it is that you can never erase public memory. We are the ones that see everything - you can't erase a wider public consciousness. It is engrained in our society and in our past whether it suits you or not. It is uncovered as it is remembered by those who were there at the time, and by those who wish to tell. As far as I am concerned, a Trademark or a Wikipedia page will never change what was true, what was there as Satellite Spies in the 1980s.

Musically, it is very hard to believe that Satellite Spies was led by Deane Sutherland in the eighties. In "Destiny in Motion" - you can hear Sutherland's funk-like guitar licks come in at the chorus, while the rest of the song is a very bass-driven affair, surrounded by glorious sheets of synth sound. Now, not only do I find it very hard to believe that Loveys only contributed to the lyric, but I find it hard to believe that Sutherland would have been responsible for the musical composition of this song. Naturally, no guitarist, in my living memory, would write a song that is formed prominently from a bass line. The Who, was a band with a guitarist-to-band songwriting relationship. In their earlier days, their music was very guitar riff-based - particularly in tracks such as "I Can't Explain", "Substitute" and "Won't Get Fooled Again" to name a few. The later tracks they produced became evidently more experimental, in which Townshend allowed more room for the compositions to showcase his experimental guitar/amplifier techniques. The band's catalogue is predominantly built around his soul-instrument. I find this generally to be the idea in most cases. Loveys is another example. A bassist - many of Satellite Spies' songs are formed to a certain degree around Loveys' bass lines which stand out in the front line of sound. Do listen to Satellite Spies' back catalogue if you wish to challenge this, but do realize that I would not waste my time on a petty debate if I did not see importance in it. Therefore I close my point - if Loveys were to play such a prominent role in the band as the prime songwriter, then how could he "steal" the band? It might also be wise to tell anyone reading this that Loveys is APRA-registered as the Songwriter of all Satellite Spies tracks released between 1984-1988. You may check this for yourself if you find this hard to believe, but it is there. Just like Sutherland's Trademark on The Intellectual Property Office website - when I got to this point of my discoveries, I wondered - does this really make sense?

It appears to me that there were 'two creative eras' of Satellite Spies. The Mark Loveys-led 1980s band, which did not do anything illegally by my count; and the Deane Sutherland-led 1990s band. Sutherland was of course, a part of the 1980s band with Loveys, that is clear. Though there is not enough sufficient evidence to indicate or even suggest that Satellite Spies was mainly Sutherland's project. Satellite Spies was Mark Loveys - his voice, his bass-playing and his well-crafted pop songs were the staple of the band in the eighties. Arguing against this self-evident truth would be to argue that Hall & Oates were Oates & Hall. While I do not want to bring any of my lecturers into this, I should point out that I am not the only one who thinks so. There is a musicology course I took in my second year of study which provided a snapshot of the 1980s in Auckland - Satellite Spies was among one of the bands mentioned, and Loveys was celebrated for these three things I have just mentioned - particularly his voice.

One thing that confuses me greatly is that while both Loveys and Sutherland are prominent musicians in their own rights - like Darryl Hall and John Oates, either of them could have toured and recorded new material as themselves and be received well. From what it looks like to me, it appears that Loveys has continued on with his life after the band - I assume so considering his resume. In regards to Sutherland, I am still unsure as to why he is picking this battle when there really isn't a battle to fight. He should just record an album as Deane Sutherland, himself, rather than foster a career around a band name.

Lastly, before I go. I just can't stand spelling/grammar mistakes, so Stan of Whangaparoa - I am very sorry, but for the sake of a New Zealand magazine of Musical genius, it is not "Rit It Up" - it is "Rip it Up". And to anyone else: please do not call 'research' anything you are able to find via a Google search engine, because until you've done a six year degree in academic writing of some form, you will understand what I mean. Thank you!

I really hope that everyone can appreciate what I've said here. I apologize if there is any harm taken, because that was not what I was seeking out to do. Merely, I am here to add a fresh perspective and hopefully help calm things down. And can I just say it? Loveys, I have always been a fan of your bass-playing. I own a Fender Jazz Bass that I've been playing since I was thirteen!

Yours sincerely,

Anon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.52.5 (talk) 11:01, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

The previous comment, (from a so-called Musicology Student) is none other than 'Andrew Dubber' (Mark Loveys family member) - he states the same angle of propaganda and misinformation, as does his internet article 'Deleting Music'; this is his attempt to give his relation a 'BETTER LOOK' unfortunately.

HAVE any of you, in internet land, read that dribble? Loveys and Dubber; in their attempt to tell a convincing tale – tell the story of a solitary musician whom drove around every town in New Zealand, (in one given week); apparently visiting “ALL” the record stores, to buy up his own music to achieve a chart placing; this is hilarious (I HAD A GOOD LAUGH WITH BRUCE LYNCH ABOUT THIS FABLE) - this is so ridiculous, I’m still laughing now.

FOR FUN - let's calculate; 50 or 60 music retail stores, at least in Auckland, another 40 or 50 in Wellington (not mention getting  from Auckland to Wellington),and many other different music retail stores in cities and towns such as Hamilton, Napier, New Plymouth, Palmerston North etc etc..............and this are only a few. (I haven’t even touched on the South Island) 

How could anyone believe that – this is so side-splittingly funny - it's impossible to imagine. Andrew Dubber does not have ANY real Rock Band experience; that is, Real experience and knowledge of what it is like to work as a top professional rock musician.

THIS TIP IS FOR YOU ‘Andrew’ – through "HARD WORK” and touring continually promoting Satellite Spies ‘every week’ for 8 or 9 years, to every corner of New Zealand, can obtain for you a top 10 selling song - something that Reaction Records failed to achieve ever. The proof is with R.I.A.N.Z. – so it doesn’t matter what DUBBER & LOVEYS try to belittle or demean. Mr DUBBER - you are either extremely naive or totally blind to family loyalty.

Andrew Dubber speaks with 'FORK TONGUE'; Family members should keep well out of business that obviously biases them from informing on reality & truth. (BLOOD IS THICKER THAN WATER - so they say; and never more evident than in the previous comment by Andrew Dubber, (who operates in disguises and unsigned).

Andrew mentions here the exact same references; as the 'Hall & Oats' comparison from his 'Deleting Music Article'; as does his one-sided view of a band he never had anything to do with. I have never met him or heard of him prior to this said article of his – and I have been with Satellite spies for 28 years.

Deane Sutherland (Tommy Joy) / SATELLITE SPIES Founder. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.37.160 (talk) 22:34, 9 August 2012 (UTC)