Talk:Santa Baby

[Untitled]

• I'd like to see this rewritten so it corresponds a bit more with the Christmas Carols type--i.e., a brief introduction and explanation, a sampling of the lyrics, followed by a subsection on "covers" that would treat the information currently in prose form. Thoughts? --CaesarGJ (talk) 16:10, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Holly Cole

Holly Cole did a great version of the song. I would be glad if someone could integrate the link in a correct way into the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.182.237.175 (talk) 21:57, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Marilyn Monroe

Didn't Marilyn Monroe did a cover of this song too? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Senaiboy (talk • contribs) 19:29, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

The version oft referenced as Marilyn Monroe is actually actress and recording artist, Cynthia Basinet. Recorded in '97 for Jack Nicholson as a personal gift. Also in the movie, "Party Monster". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dreamsville2 (talk • contribs) 20:38, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

she's popped up again. I'll add a line to the article which hopefully will put people off this one - but would be grateful if someone could add a source for a negative statement. Grblundell (talk) 09:26, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

We really don't need to add unsourced material about a non-notable Monroe soundalike to the article to discourage people from adding Monroe. Note that User:Dreamsville2 is blocked for spamming and that Basinet's record label is -- surprise -- Dreamsville Records! Welcometodreamsvillerecords isn't blocked, but their only activity was creating Cynthia Basinet articles. Just saying... Delicious carbuncle (talk) 11:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

this is what comes of me trying to move things forward without doing deep research. Many thanks for cleaning up the article. But I think my point still stands. Many people believe that Monroe recorded this song, and several times a year they will edit this article to say as much - and some other editor will have to come along and revert. So would it not be helpful, both to those misguided editors, and to the general reader, to flag up in the article that there is no Monroe recording, and identify the recording that people believe to be Monroe? Grblundell (talk) 12:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I treat it the same way I treat similarly unsourced additions of the "gay version" by a non-notable comic. I don't believe there is a widespread belief that Monroe covered this song, or else we'd see a lot more adding of Monroe top the article and a lot less adding of Basinet. I've removed Monroe a couple of times and Basinet many more. I don't think adding unsourced material about a non-notable singer to prevent a possible confusion (that seems to be promulgated by the record company of that singer) is really a good idea. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 13:51, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

So to make it clear: Marilyn Monroe never sang this song. Cynthia Basinet did sing it in 1997. Right? Since Cynthia Basinet is not really known for anything else (non-notable), she shouldn't be put in a list of recordings. Right? She can, as opposed to Monroe, be in the list of covers though right? About the non-notable thing: although Cynthia Basinet is not known, the recording is. Just search "Marilyn Monroe santa baby" on youtube. Tons of hits. Its been circulating the illegal file-sharing nets for years. I myself knew and liked this recording, thinking it was Monroe all the time. Now it seems it was actually Cynthia Basinet. If it really is all true, it is only understandable that the stake holders want the truth to come out (however clumsy they have been). In my opinion en explicit note stating that Marilyn Monroe never recorded this song (or that it is not on the list of her recordings) would be in place. Misiu mp (talk) 00:07, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

We have already determined Cynthia Basinet is not notable. She had an article here, wasn't notable, got deleted. Until such time as she becomes notable, there's no reason to include here her as a red link, because that link will never link to an article. Red links exist to encourage people to create missing articles that are likely to meet Wikipedia guidelines. Wikipedia isn't Google - if people want to know who sang the song in Party Monsters, they shouldn't have much trouble finding that information. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:35, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

The only non notable person here is DELICIOUS CARUBNCLE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.175.21.168 (talk) 19:23, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

transferred from article...

This was added (presumably by a new editor) to the article, but seems to sit better here, so rather than losing the contribution, here it is...

My memory is that "Santa Baby" was sung by the character played by Jane Krakowski, not Calista Flockhart. Charles Moore

Transferred by Grblundell (talk) 14:11, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Jane Krakowski sang "Run Rudolph Run," not "Santa Baby." On the Ally Christmas album, it is by Flockhart. http://www.amazon.com/McBeal-Christmas-featuring-Vonda-Shepard/dp/B00138F3N2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1244486794&sr=8-2 12.162.122.6 (talk) 18:47, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Sugababes merge

My request to merge Santa Baby (Sugababes cover version) here was removed stating that no rationale was given. I thought it would be pretty obvious but here it is. It's a non-notable version of this song and all versions of the same song are always (well, 99.99% of the time) covered in the one article. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 14:44, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I am going to make the merge because no reason is given that this should be a separate article. I have never seen a version of the same song have a different article than the original version. If this cover version was an entirely different song, it would fail WP:NSONGS and the song would redirect back to Sugababes. The one sentence in this article should be enough and no other information from the cover version is needed since it is a non-notable version. Aspects (talk) 21:03, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Fred Ebb

I cannot find any authoritative source to back up the assertion that Fred Ebb co-wrote "Santa Baby." While Ebb did write a number of songs with Philip Springer, he isn't listed on the copyright for this song (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v1=140&ti=101,140&SEQ=20101228220349&Search%5FArg=springer%20philip&Search%5FCode=NALL&CNT=50&PID=fplx4qUEZ3IoV2XbVTlpNIBfskwd&SID=1). Furthermore, when Springer has been interviewed about the writing of the song, he doesn't mention Ebb as having participated (http://blog.musicnotes.com/2008/11/26/interview-with-santa-baby-songwriter-philip-springer/). The Songwriter's Hall of Fame bio cited in the article is unconvincing, since it also attributes the co-authorship of "How Little We Know" to Ebb; the lyric for that one was actually written by Carolyn Leigh. As a result of all this, I'm removing Ebb's name from the article as a co-writer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.64.101.195 (talk) 03:08, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

performing seal

I have a clear memory of there being a seal on the TV at Christmas Time and it was singing this song in a deep gruff and yet loving voice. Can anyone confirm if this actually happened, and if so, why does it not mention it in the article. I do have a history of very alarming vivid dreams featuring sea mammals so that is always a risk. Cloddy Hans (talk) 12:52, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Boxxy

Is the cover by Catherine Wayne (Boxxy) notable enough to be mentioned in this article? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHweocGg5N8 Fladoodle (talk) 23:32, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Any third party sources review it? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 05:09, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Since Boxxy has an article on WP, her version should be included. 173.48.114.149 (talk) 22:29, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Move

Since multiple articles exist with a similar name i've tried to clean it up to:

• Santa Baby (film)
• Santa Baby 2 - moved to Santa Baby 2 (film)
• Santa Baby (Gimme, Gimme, Gimme)

The only missing article is this one, which should ideally me moved to Santa Baby (song) per naming conventions. Any objections? Thanks Jenova20 09:18, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Taylor Swift

Taylor Swift did a cover of this song for her 2007 EP Sounds of the Season: The Taylor Swift Holiday Collection.can we add it PLEASE.--BellaFan262 (talk) 21:06, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Covers

This section looks like ever-growing listcruft. Proposal: Only mention covers that have charted or that have specifically received media coverage. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 23:54, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

@NeilN: This is a bit late but I just independently came to the same conclusion after stumbling on this page. According to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Songs#Article content, cover versions should only be listed if they are notable songs themselves. None of these appear to have any form of reference, and thus are suitable for deletion. The section also seems to fall under WP:TRIVIA. I will go ahead with the removal since nobody else seems to have objected to your original proposal. – FenixFeather ^{(talk)(Contribs)} 06:31, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

list 

The problem now (in my opinion) is that now it seems like the only important version is the Ariana Grande version, since it is featured more prominently than even Eartha Kitt's original. Do we really need that much info about one cover version? Wouldn't a "Notable covers include..." statement give covers the proper importance?Sheriffjt (talk) 22:36, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

What about splitting off the Grande version into it's own article? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 21:11, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

This line of commentary is utter nonsense. Santa Baby has certainly been covered many dozens of artists, but there would be nothing wrong with making a bare list of these. To make some sort of concocted rule that a cover had to be separately notable would lead to endless argument over why this particular cover, or that one, was sufficently unusual to merit listing. List them all. Last I checked., hard disks stored 10 terabytes of data. We are not straining WP's servers to add 50 more lines. 174.25.24.188 (talk) 03:24, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

There is nothing encyclopedic about making a bare list of covers. We are not "concocting" a rule, the guideline already exists.

Our guideline basically says we should list versions that would be notable on their own (mostly, that means songs that charted) and those that are discussed in reliable sources about the song. If it charted, include it. If sources discussing the song discuss the cover version, include it. If it didn't chart and sources discussing the song have nothing to day about the cover version, that's a good sign it's trivial.— Preceding unsigned comment added by SummerPhDv2.0 (talk • contribs) 3:20, December 21, 2016 (UTC)

Somehow, you not only forgot to sign your comment, but strangely, the system didn't autosign you. Reason? Further, "Songs that charted" is an arbitrary and capricious distinction. "Charted" at what level? Top 40? Top 100? Top 200? For how long? Over how many days? Weeks? Years? By their very nature, Christmas-themed songs don't tend to be broadcast during January-October, focussing on Nov-Dec of any given year. Yet, the more popular ones come back, year after year. Further, this section has a horrible case of WP:RECENTISM: This song might have had 50 covers by 1980 alone, yet the current section "Covers" doesn't list any cover released prior to 2002. Huh?!? If anything, it could and should be argued that the 51st cover can't possibly be more notable than the first 50, except under very unusual circumstances. I see no reason for ANY of the listed post-2000 covers to be sufficiently notable, in comparison to all prior ones, to merit listing here. And if "charting" were to be considered a valid distinction, then why not list the top 20 (or some other number) covers, based on their popularity as-measured over the decades? 174.25.24.188 (talk) 05:00, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

The reason I forgot to sign is I forgot. As to why a bot didn't sign for me, I don't know.

Most of the versions currently listed should, IMO, be removed. Had I noticed them prior to this discussion, they'd be gone by now. Unless there is a consensus to the contrary, I will remove them shortly.

Yes, charting: Wikipedia:Record_charts. If you have a recognized chart of "top 20 (or some other number) covers, based on their popularity as-measured over the decades", perhaps we could use that. I am unaware of such a chart and we can't really make our own. - SummerPhD^v2.0 13:09, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm glad you agree. And yes, those 2002 and after covers should be removed. But that doesn't mean that the section "Covers" should remain empty. If anything, the huge number of covers makes Santa Baby a valid exception to some general rule cited by NeilN, above. Part of the problem is that a large fraction of those covers pre-date the general availability of the Internet, in some cases by four decades. An editor would be hard-pressed to even find an Internet-available reference to a pre-1980 cover, a problem which contributes to the WP:RECENTISM situation I mention above. A source which cannot be accessed by an Internet URL isn't especially useful for most people. I am hoping that somebody is sufficiently familiar with the recording industry's rating systems to locate a site which compiles this information. 174.25.35.60 (talk) 20:56, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

The Kylie Minogue version charted and I have no intention of removing it.

The "huge number of covers" is in want of a source.

Sources need not be online. - SummerPhD^v2.0 05:32, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

For me, I don't delete songs that were already here when I started following the page. But I do make sure that new edits don't include every random nobody that has ever sung a Christmas song.Kellymoat (talk) 23:25, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Cynthia Basinet version

CynthiaB2014, probably a new account of Cynthia Basinet has been adding this to the article. Issues:

• The track did not chart and so does not need an infobox
• The Monroe factoid is sourced to the Mirror, a source we generally try to avoid
• "Best since Eartha Kitt" is sourced to a WP:NEWSBLOG of a non-notable music reviewer
• "Cynthia's version has influenced nearly every version recorded after 2000" is completely unsourced

--NeilN ^{talk to me} 15:00, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Ariana Grande version

Why did the Ariana Grande section of the article got removed? After all, her cover version was released as a single, so the section should be listed there. Paul Badillo (talk) 21:42, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Madonna's version

So far, I've heard the Eartha Kitt version. But, what about Madonna's version of the song?

From the video description:

Madonna's cutesy pie version was recorded in the late 80s for a celebrity charity Christmas album. It was going to be released with Supernatural but this was dropped.

The glaring difference in-between the two songs is that how Kitt wants "a '54 convertible" while Madonna wants "an auto-space convertible", both of them light-blue. 205.214.249.75 (talk) 20:37, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

References

Cover versions

I propose to the users who watch this page that a separate article/list be created – perhaps titled Santa Baby cover versions or List of cover versions of Santa Baby – which will serve to list notable covers of "Santa Baby" by artists like Ariana Grande, Cynthia Basinet, Gwen Stefani, Kylie Minogue, Madonna, and many more, who released their versions as singles or promotional singles. With the creation of this, we can fill the voids that are currently existing in several of these singers' discographies. Thoughts? Carbrera (talk) 04:53, 10 October 2018 (UTC).

I would also like to note that I did read the previous comments regarding this. My proposal's purpose is to provide information on the notable covers. I'm not suggesting there's a need to list every cover of "Santa Baby" by any means. Carbrera (talk) 04:56, 10 October 2018 (UTC).

• @Carbrera: That would make sense to me just due to the sheer volume of "Santa Baby" covers. It seems like every female singer does this song when recording Christmas music lol. Do you know if there are any separate articles/lists for a song cover? It would be helpful to have an example, though if one does not already exist, this could be a useful model for the future. I have encountered a similar dilemma when working on an article about a song, as it can be quite easy to have information on covers get out of control. You could always try messaging the WikiProjects about this for further commentary. Aoba47 (talk) 09:13, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

What by whom?

Duh. Like too often, all the article tells me is by whom the song was written, and a rather intense web-search also produced no clear answer.

So, who wrote the lyrics? Only Joan Javits? Only Philip Springer? Only Tony Springer? Two of them, and if so, which? Or all three together?

Same for the tune: who composed it? Only Joan Javits? Only Philip Springer? Only Tony Springer? Two of them, and if so, which? Or all three together?

Or is there no evidence, and all we can say is the three of them somehow worked together?

Thanks in advance. --80.109.76.103 (talk) 15:41, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Song-writing is often a collaborative process. Category:Songs with lyrics by Philip Springer suggest that he wrote the lyrics? I agree more sources are needed. But did you not read this source which says:

"With the song in hand, Philip and Joan (both ASCAP writers) checked into the song title with the publishers from a company called Trinity Music, owned by BMI. At the time, BMI and ASCAP were entrenched in a “war,” as Philip described it, so in order to get the song published and settle their differences, they had to create a fictional BMI songwriter who they named Tony Springer." Martinevans123 (talk) 15:44, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Controversy details

The article references controversy but does not really give any details. Which lyrics were controversial? Why? Who objected? 90.249.136.231 (talk) 09:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

In the cited source, Springer said that it was "banned in some cities" and that's it - no idea where the other details came from. I can't find any other sources to support "controversy" or that it was ever banned. I removed the mention in the lead and that brief section. Schazjmd (talk) 22:21, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Personnel for Kylie's cover

Why were we listing the overall credits for Kylie's 2010 EP A Kylie Christmas? There's no way most of these apply to "Santa Baby". For example, a choir was credited—there's absolutely no choir on her cover of the song. I'm removing this until we can find credits for Kylie's "Santa Baby" specifically—there's no "2010 version" anyway, it's the same recording from 2000. (Unfortunately the Tidal source is dead, and it doesn't look like A Kylie Christmas is on the site any longer, so there's no way to see the credits that apply specifically to "Santa Baby" there.) Ss112 10:36, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Miley Cirus Version

I believe the Version performed by Miley Cyrus in 2018 in the Tonight Show (Jimmy Fallon) is worth mentioning. Despite and because of the updated text. There doesn't seem to be a conventional audio release, though (only TV, youtube, tiktok, etc.. ) 88.71.227.80 (talk) 20:44, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

What sources lead you to think it's worth mentioning in the article? Schazjmd (talk) 20:52, 26 December 2022 (UTC)