Talk:Sabrina Carpenter

Songwriter status

It's been debated several times via edit summaries whether Sabrina is classed as a songwriter or not. This is because she has wrote the majority of her own songs, but doesn't write for other people. Personally, I would class her as a singer-songwriter, rather than just a singer. What are everyone's thoughts on this? – DarkGlow (talk) 14:29, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm just going to ping Geraldo Perez, as he's better at explaining what qualifies somebody for either "songwriter" or "singer-songwriter" status. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:24, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Looking at her credits, it doesn't look like she is the sole songwriter on any of her stuff, just part of a team of writers. It is common for singers to have some creative input to the songs they sing and get listed with the professional songwriters in the credits, in my opinion more as a courtesy than anything else. They don't divide out who does what in the credit, I suspect her input is restricted to the lyrics with melody written by someone else. Singer-songwriters write both lyrics and melody on the stuff they perform and generally don't need help, Taylor Swift is an exemplar. The fact she doesn't write songs for others is more of an indication that songwriting is not a profession, more a adjunct to her singing where she has some creative input to the songs she sings. Geraldo Perez (talk) 16:16, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

She's wrote for others briefly. She co-wrote for a duo named Aquila for their song 'Stupid Not to Try' as well as co-wrote 'Heaven is You' by Joshua Bassett. Those are the only two I know of but there could be more. Aw2000921 (talk) 05:27, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

she also done a collab with Austinstevenmoon(Madanraj) and Nolan Frank music on 14 may 2014. It was his first collab with Sabrina Carpenter and with her band members — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adwerson (talk • contribs) 15:56, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

She has co-written most of her own songs, just like a number of singers classified as songwriters. There is no reason to doubt her status here, and it should in reinstated, in my view. Childeroland (talk) 14:12, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

I totally agree. I don't know why its not included. Whether or not people think its notable, its what she does. She just released her album, and she is listed a songwriter on EVERY SINGLE SONG IN IT. Plus she has written many of her other songs. I just makes no sense as to why it is not included. Samuelloveslennonstella (talk) 13:47, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

She contributes to a songwriting team, I don't see anything she has written on just her own. The others on the team are the professional songwriters, she is the singer who gives input as to what she wants them to write for her and gets a credit for that contribution. Per MOS:ROLEBIO songwriting is not an independent notable activity, it is just an adjunct to her notable career as a singer. Geraldo Perez (talk) 16:52, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Footnote "b" in MOS:ROLEBIO states "In general, a position, activity, or role should not be included in the lead paragraph if: a) the role is not otherwise discussed in the lead (per MOS:LEAD, don't tease the reader), b) the role is not significantly covered in the body of the article, or, c) the role is auxiliary to a main profession of the person (e.g. do not add "textbook writer", if the person is an academic)." Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:49, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm not educated enough to edit this part myself, but it's interesting how some female musicians like Sabrina Carpenter, who have songwriting credits on most of their music, for some reason aren't considered "legitimate" songwriters or singer-songwriters because they share writing credits with other songwriters on the majority of their tracks. Yet others, like Gwen Stefani, Christina Aguilera, Brandy Norwood, and Dua Lipa are described as such, even though they also share songwriting credits in what we can assume is a similar manner. Even Olivia Rodrigo, arguably Carpenter's closest contemporary, is described as a "singer-songwriter" without any dispute, despite not having a solo songwriting credit on her albums.

Sure, there are decades of experience between artists like Carpenter and the likes of, say, Mariah Carey. But Carey has never had a solo songwriting credit on any song she's released, that I know of. Still, few nowadays would dare question her legitimacy as a songwriter, although she's said she feels underrecognized as one in the past. Changedforbetter (talk) 15:26, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

A lot of the other singers with songwriter listed as a notable occupation in their bio likely shouldn't have that listed. It depends on the individual. Generally if a notable songwriter, that will be significantly covered in the article. Having a team writing all the songs makes it harder to justify. Geraldo Perez (talk) 17:46, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Jack Antonoff, her producer, talking about Sharpest Tool composition:

"It's really Sabrina I'm listening to in that song, and I'm not obsessing over my bits. I didn't write any lyric in that song. It was all her."

(link to the full article: https://time.com/7027160/jack-antonoff-interview-bleachers-sabrina-carpenter-taylor-swift/)

She is clearly writing her own lyrics and being regarded as a songwriter from Billboard and UMPG (https://www.umusicpub.com/fr/News/2023/10/UMPG-signs-Sabrina-Carpenter-to-exclusive-worldwide-publishing-agreement.aspx), and has a page for the songs that she's written (Category:Songs written by Sabrina Carpenter). I fail to see why her songwriting legitimacy is still being questioned. Ereeleditor (talk) 21:55, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

also, here is the link to Sabrina debuting at #2 on the Billboard Hot 100 Songwriter's chart (not sure why this was removed).

https://www.billboard.com/music/chart-beat/amy-allen-number-1-songwriters-chart-sabrina-carpenter-hits-1235767998/

Here is the link of her continuing to chart at #2:

https://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100-songwriters/?rank=2 Ereeleditor (talk) 22:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Add a section to the article that talks to that then. If she is the lyricist as claimed on all her songs with the others on the team composing the music that should be sourced and described in the article to support adding it as a notable occupation to the intro. Basically what was missing was any description about what her actual contribution to the team was. Geraldo Perez (talk) 22:15, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Restored this from archive as issue still active. Geraldo Perez (talk) 05:26, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Infobox photo, 2024

@PHShanghai and Ronherry: Didn't realize there was a past discussion on the infobox photo. But consensus can change and I think there are better options to be chosen.

• 
  A (2020, current)
• B (2019)
  B (2019)
• 
  C (2020)

More on Commons. Among these three, my preference is B or C equally; A seems of lower quality being so straight-on and kind of frozen, hard to articulate. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 02:21, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

I prefer A, more even lighting. B and C have her face partially shadowed. Also her facial expression in A looks more natural. Geraldo Perez (talk) 03:05, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

• Vote for C. Either B or C is fine, but the latter is more recent. "A" is very blurry. Bluesatellite (talk) 04:07, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

A is fine and high quality besides it's the closest to what she looks like now. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 14:21, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

I vote for C. C is the best. Her face is relaxed with a gentle smile. Plus, she's looking directly into the camera. In A, she's looking somewhere else, and is relatively less quality (less defined in pixels) than the other two. B is old. C is the best choice. ℛonherry☘ 05:29, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

In the past few days, a couple of additional photos have popped up (three if counting a cropped version of one of them separately), replacing what was in the infobox. I have restored the image in the infobox to option A, which was the one showing at the time the discussion here was started a couple of months ago. Also, in that time, option B has no longer become available (deleted photo). Here's an update of the available photos that should be considered, with B excluded.

• 
  A (2020, current)
• 
  C (2020)
• 
  D (2021)
• 
  E (2024)
• 
  F (2021, cropped version of D)

I will also note that just because it's the most recent doesn't necessarily mean we go with that one. I'm not too particular about which to go with, but the three added ones just don't seem right and especially E. So if I had to make a pick, I would stick with A. MPFitz1968 (talk) 15:27, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm prefer D or F. Better F, but both is ok.

– Thegreatrebellion (talk) 15:10, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I briefly added the 2024 image to the article, but I still prefer option E as it abides with her prominence from the Short n' Sweet album. Sparkbean (talk) 23:23, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

A further comment: I don't know whether the year on D and F is correct (this is what was shown in the image's file name). It appears from the source, some YouTube video, that it's a lot more recent ... as in this year, around the time of "Espresso". MPFitz1968 (talk) 15:32, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

I prefer D over the others, the F crop is too tight. Don't like C or E as she is making faces and that is not her natural appearance. A is OK. Geraldo Perez (talk) 17:19, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

I've requested a rename of D and F, they're indeed images from a 2024 video. While the uploads link to a YouTube Shorts upload, it's actually from this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5q5oKGcFXg -- Zanimum (talk) 23:32, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

This is actually a re-upload from the Vanity Fair channel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSIwec3T1jQ); both publications are owned by Condé Nast, which sort of complicates the attribution. diplomat’s son (talk+contrib) 07:25, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm fine with any images given except for E since I feel she doesn't have natural look. If I were to make a choice, I'll go with either C or D. Galaxybeing (talk) 12:30, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I think ut should be D it is atleast more recent. But concrete i think that you should upload a picture that is natural but from 2024. 62.20.62.211 (talk) 07:47, 8 October 2024 (UTC)