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Archive 1←Archive 3Archive 4Archive 5

I propose that the stars in the logo get removed. Is this okay? (LAz17 (talk) 23:13, 14 May 2010 (UTC)).

I see that Juventus F.C. removed them, what about other cases? I was already told, but I forgot, what do they exactly mean? Are they 1 World, 1 Euro Cup? FkpCascais (talk) 01:47, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
I have no idea what they are. No other clubs in Zvezda seem to have them - however FK Partizan has these. They must mean something in soccer - but who knows what? (LAz17 (talk) 04:12, 15 May 2010 (UTC)).
They usually mean 10 national championships (I know in Partizan case, and some other world football clubs they do) but they can have different meanings depending on the decision of each club. I think this stars in the official crest issue is not regulated worldwide, but rather nationally. They are usual to see in the major winning trophies clubs in the world, so I feel good that Serbian clubs follow this trend, as well. I don´t support all trends (I rather dislike trends), but in this particular case, when stars mean titles, I do like it. I understand you now better, because you are dealing with the all crests of Red Stars different sport clubs, but for football case, I prefer to leave them, having the official logo with stars. But, I don´t want to monopolise this decision, so it would be great to have more touths from other editors on this. Thanx Laz. FkpCascais (talk) 05:40, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Juventus F.C. didn't remove its stars, its just a logo restyling, the stars are now outside the logo. For Red Star the two stars mean two European Cup won. See: Star (football crest). Theirrulez (talk) 17:44, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

To be more precise it´s one European and one Intercontinental, but anyway, thanx a lot Theirrulez, and the link about the Star (football crest) was very usefull here :) FkpCascais (talk) 18:00, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome, I'm a football lover too. ;) Theirrulez (talk) 18:10, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Each star means that the club won 10 tittles in the domestic competition. The stars are a part of the logo. The thing about this logo is that it is not the official one, this logo is the old logo that in the last 4 years the marketing department is trying to promote. It will be officially adopted in the next GA. The actual logo (u can find it on the UEFA site) was incorporated more than 10 years ago. The rumors were that there was pressure to put blue color in the logo so it can remind people of the Serbian flag (red blue white). One more thing, from this season the official 2nd jersey is blue. I dont know how to change things here, I am just trying to help you.

IPA pronunciation

As FkpCascais has mentioned, the name Crvena zvezda is pretty hard to pronounce for the people not coming from the former Yugoslavia. That's when I've noticed we don't have IPA pronunciation here, and it would be very useful. I believe it should be something like [tsrvænʌ zvæzdʌ], but, unfortunately, I am not sure if I am right, and I don't want to write something I am not sure of. Is there anyone willing to put up a correct IPA pronunciation of the Serbian name here?--Vitriden (talk) 22:16, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Excellent idea. Something should be done about this, especially when the page gets moved to the common name FK Crvena Zvezda. (LAz17 (talk) 00:37, 19 May 2010 (UTC)).
I´ll try to see who could help on this. FkpCascais (talk) 08:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
If there's anyone willing to decipher, this could be useful: Wikipedia:IPA for Serbo-Croatian.--Vitriden (talk) 18:17, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

How can I help?

Royalty

As can be seen, Real Madrid is not the english name. Hence, we need it to be english, not spanish, at least that is what certain people say here. Hence, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Real_Madrid_C.F.#Requested_move_2 is available for you to try to ruin that page too. Cheers. (LAz17 (talk) 03:53, 19 May 2010 (UTC)).

That is just plain WP:NONSENSE. It's so rediculous is not worth commenting on beyond it being patent nonsense. Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point.--Labattblueboy (talk) 12:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Exactly, ridiculous bullshit - the same thing has happened here so there is precedent! Crvena Zvezda is just like Real Madrid - calling it otherwise would be like calling Real Royal. (LAz17 (talk) 12:47, 19 May 2010 (UTC)).
Please, what you said! Real Madrid is consolidated in English use since long time ago, Crvena Zvezda had never belonged to English use. Anyways don't use uncivil language. --Theirrulez (talk) 20:58, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Can someone please give a warning to Laz about the kind of language and attitude he has been having here. He already said profanities on my talk page, and now he does it here with all people that disagrees with him. He has been disruptive and doesn´t even bother to check which participants are senior wikipedians, or... well, actually, he doesn´t respect nobody! Discussing this way is very unpleasent. FkpCascais (talk) 15:47, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Rule no.1 on wikipedia is to be bold. Rule no 2 should be not to lie - something that you are doing. If anyone is being profane on a personal talk page it is you. (LAz17 (talk) 16:26, 19 May 2010 (UTC)).
Ok, you really ask for it! Here: [1] you told me "idi jedi govna" meaning: "go eat sh*t". Then here: [2] you said "jebo lud zbunjenog", meaning (bad translation) "f*ck the stup*id the one with doubts", want more? Without counting here on this page. Now, since you said I lie, say where I said profanities to you? Where? FkpCascais (talk) 16:42, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Jedi govna means shush. You can not translate certain serbain phrases into english word for word. I simply told you to stop harassing me on my talk page, you continued, and then naturally I responded with the same type of low actions that you did.
Jebo lud zbunjenog is a phrase that means "that's messed up". (LAz17 (talk) 16:50, 19 May 2010 (UTC)).
And of course, you can say "dva jaja na oko" means "two eggs on eye" when in fact it means "sunny side up eggs"... or "who plums you" is the word for word translation of who gives a damn about you... so I will leave it at that and ask you "Who plums you?" And no, don't reply please. (LAz17 (talk) 16:50, 19 May 2010 (UTC)).

You´re being funny with me? So, I lied? I was the one that said that I never want to see you again, remember? I harass you... I´ll just report you, and never wanna have contact with you, understand? FkpCascais (talk) 16:53, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Just fuck off with your pointless statements aimed at me. That would be the most constructive. "Cut the filler material." Write only what is necessary to the topic at hand.
Your life already revolves around wiki - so please do yourself and myself a favor by not having me be a part that it revolves around too. (LAz17 (talk) 17:00, 19 May 2010 (UTC)).
The report on you is here: [3]. (be pleased that I don´t know to exagerate reports, like some experts that I saw do). FkpCascais (talk) 17:35, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
It seems a bit silly this kind of degeneration in language and in behaviour just for the name of a football club. Is there something personal not solved yet? Anyways I don't think it could be the right way and the right place to use so useless slurs as above. - Theirrulez (talk) 20:53, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Did you saw the report and the excuses he had used? He uses the exact same methods like some users we know well. By the way, they are friends, I wouldn´t be surprised if they were from the same school... FkpCascais (talk) 20:57, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Dispute

Once more a consensus was not reached about the title of the article and the discussion was archived without any proposal or further resolution. The point here is not to close the discussion after the deadline has passed. A 6th or even a 10th move request will be asked in the future. The administrator or any editor who archives the discussion should take this into account. - Sthenel (talk) 14:57, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

"Majority"? But 8 oposed, and only 5 wanted... FkpCascais (talk) 19:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I've corrected it as misleading. But the whole thing is gonna come up again and again, and more fights will take place like those above. I think that mediation would be a good tool in this case. - Sthenel (talk) 20:06, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 6

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus for move. Ucucha 18:47, 29 May 2010 (UTC)


Red Star Belgrade → FC Red Star Belgrade — Seeing how there is much opposition to move the page back to the Serbian name of Crvena Zvezda... the least that can be done is to at least correctly portray it in its english name. In particular, there are many Red Star Belgrade clubs in many different sports. Adding FC in front would differentiate this page from those. LAz17 (talk) 21:12, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

  • Strong Support There are other clubs called red star - FC Red Star Zürich and FC Red Star Saint-Ouen. More importantly, there are many clubs in the Red Star Belgrade organization - you can see them here, SD Crvena Zvezda - so it is necessary to have FC in front of Red Star Belgrade. The Club's official site in english has FC in front of it, and its official serbian site has FK in front of it. The official logo has FC in it... it is key. (LAz17 (talk) 21:25, 21 May 2010 (UTC)).
  • Strong opose: There is no reason to further change the name of the article. All other teams in Serbia use "FK", and having one team using "FC" would just be strange. You can do a redirect to the currect title if you feel that there are reasons to have the version you propose, at all. Anyway, most hits in English language refer to the football club as simply "Red Star Belgrade" so there ain´t no reason to move it by that motive either. FkpCascais (talk) 21:31, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
All clubs in Serbia in the serbian language have FK in front of them. If you make one's title in english the least that can be done is to add the FC. The issue further is not only about FC, it is also about the fact that there are many Red Star Belgrade sport clubs. (LAz17 (talk) 22:33, 21 May 2010 (UTC)).
  • Support - I supported this move in the previous discussion. The English version of the club's website refers to the club as "FC Red Star", with "Belgrade" added as a form of disambiguator. – PeeJay 21:51, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong Oppose - Official website version and common English use are two well different things. The club is globally known as Red Star Belgrade, adding FC will represent an unuseful anglicisation. Better FK: the FK "Red Star" Belgrade. --Theirrulez (talk) 23:38, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
    • Comment: But even better to leave it as it is, simple Red Star Belgrade... Anyway, I don´t understand, one of the reasons given for the change proposal was to add the FC to differenciate them from the other sports of Red Star club (basket, handball...), but the football section is the only one names in English Red Star Belgrade, being the others already different (KK Crvena Zvezda...) so the differenciation is already made... Another reason is to add "FC" to differenciate it from other Red Stars (FC Red Star Zürich,...) that use already FC, so, we want to add FC to differenciate from FC Red Stars? That reason doesn´t make sence. FkpCascais (talk) 23:49, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Red star belgrade should redirect here, SD Crvena Zvezda. (LAz17 (talk) 02:03, 22 May 2010 (UTC)).
Comment - This whole fuss about the naming dispute has led to a mess. All the other articles of the club are under the name "X Crvena Zvezda" and only this uses a translation of the original name without any acronyms related to the sports department of the club (FC or FK), something unique and weird for clubs' articles in wikipedia. Most of the people in these series of endless discussion are rabid supporters of the one or the other side and it doesn't help. "FC Red Star Belgrade" looks somewhat strange, but seems reasonable since "Red Star Belgrade" could be perfectly the name of the basketball, volleyball etc article of the club as well or the article about the parent club. The best solution for me would be FK Crvena Zvezda, but this has already been discussed to death, so "FK Red Star Belgrade" comes second. Btw, saying that "Red Star Belgrade" for football is OK since we don't need to differentiate it from KK Crvena Zvezda looks really unseemly...we talk about THE SAME club. - Sthenel (talk) 01:17, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Comment - "FC" would be strange because it would be different from all others in the domestic league, that, for that case, all use "FK". On the other hand, "FK" would be strange because then the name would be only partially translated... The thing is that the naming of Red Star Belgrade is surely used for the football club, in English language media, but I honestly don´t know if in all other sports is also used... I wouldn´t mind if the title of the article would be "FK Crvena Zvezda", but the major inconvenient, and the one that made me have voted against in the previous move request, is that then it would become used in all other articles, because redirects are avoided, and progressively, the Red Star Belgrade would be lost. If the article name could be one (FK CZ), and the general use, another (RSB), than it would be OK for that situation, but it isn´t. For the international tournaments articles, listings, or even players infoboxes, it is much usefull to have a directly identifyble name of RSB, that a not that familiar for English speakers, FKCZ. FkpCascais (talk) 05:42, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
I wouldn't be disappointed to see the article moved to FK Crvena Zvezda, but since we have an English option, we should use that. – PeeJay 08:13, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose: there is no real ambiguity in English-language usage of the term, as Red Star Belgrade practically always refers to the football club. Even a brief Google search makes this apparent, and it is thus a perfectly fine title by WP:PRIMARYTOPIC; compare the situation with that of Werder Bremen, where the football club also resides at the name of the sports club. The argument from consistency with other clubs is weaker still - English usage is not consistent, and we are supposed to copy usage, inconsistencies and all. English usage uses 1. FC Köln and Hannover 96 but Bayern Munich and 1. FC Nuremberg (i.e. the German endonyms for the places are used for the first two instead of Cologne and Hanover, but the English exonyms are used for the second two instead of München and Nürnberg). This usage is "inconsistent", but we correctly copy it regardless. Likewise common English usage omits FC on Red Star Belgrade but would use FK/FC on other names. Knepflerle (talk) 10:15, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
The point is that we should follow a guideline in naming the club's articles, it's really ridiculous to see them under different names according to what is common or not. UEFA website refers to the club as "FK Crvena Zvezda" which is quite popular and widely used in English-language media. Since we have the redirect pages we won't face the problem that searching for Red Star won't lead you to Crvena Zvezda. A translation of the club's name brings many problems, such as the addition of "FC". On the one hand "FC Red Star Belgrade" looks as exaggeration but actually this is the correct form in wikipedia, on the other hand "(FC) Red Star Belgrade" looks inappropriate for the football department of the sports club SD Crvena Zvezda. Don't forget that in an encyclopedia, the articles should be clearly differentiated from each other, something that is not a problem for UEFA and ULEB/FIBA websites for example. And don't confuse different things, translations of names are not used for clubs or people (there are plenty of examples in wikipedia), contrary to countries and cities. - Sthenel (talk) 11:01, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
"it's really ridiculous to see them under different names according to what is common or not" - take that up at WT:AT. That's how en.wiki policy works, if you disagree go and change the policy.
"Since we have the redirect pages we won't face the problem that searching for Red Star won't lead you to Crvena Zvezda" - that was an issue for the last requested move, not this one.
"On the one hand "FC Red Star Belgrade" looks as exaggeration but actually this is the correct form in wikipedia" - the correct form on wikipedia is the form English speaker use, again see WP:AT. English speakers use "Red Star Belgrade", not "FC Red Star Belgrade", therefore the former is the correct form.
"Don't forget that in an encyclopedia, the articles should be clearly differentiated from each other" - there is no confusion in English language use. If someone talks about "Red Star Belgrade" in English, people don't wonder if they mean the bridge or table-tennis club. Knepflerle (talk) 12:21, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
IP User?! I smell a sock puppet.
Basketball Club Red Star Belgrade
Athletics Club Red Star Belgrade
Volleyball Club Red Star Belgrade
Hockey Club Red Star Belgrade
Handball Club Red Star Belgrade
And plenty more... [4]
(LAz17 (talk) 15:54, 22 May 2010 (UTC)).
Comment: OK then, use the translation of the club's name although it's original name is also used in English-language media (e.g. UEFA), list it among the other Serbian clubs (with their name written in Serbian Latin alphabet) as Red Star (an english name something like Bayern Munich→Bavaria Munich, Internazionale Milano→International Milan, Partizan→Partisan, Olympiacos→Olympic, Panathinaikos→Panathenean, Olympique de Marseille→Olympic of Marseille etc - note that Internazionale are simply known in English as Inter, but the name of the article is "F.C. Internazionale Milano"), let Red Star be the only club in wikipedia the articles of which use different names of the club in different languages (we - non Serbian-speakers - call them Red Star in every sport not only in football), so the most appropriate form is FK Crvena Zvezda, KK Crvena Zvezda etc OR FC Red Star, BC Red Star etc. Football and basketball departments of CSKA Moscow are known simply as "CSKA Moscow", but in wikipedia their names are PFC CSKA Moscow and PBC CSKA Moscow respectively, because this is how clubs' articles are treated here: we define the sports department adding the respective official abbreviations used by the club itself and don't avoid using it because it's not pleasant to somebody's eyes. BB! - Sthenel (talk) 14:21, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Initial comment The English club articles in this project started a bad precedent in the naming convention of football. It was clearly unintentional, but it snowballed. And it all has to do with adding acronyms like "F.C." in the article title. To explain a little bit, there is a naming convention for UK football clubs: Common Name + F.C. or A.F.C. (or an appropriate acronym). I believe the reason behind this is that a lot of football clubs in the UK had to be disambiguated from other articles (ex: Liverpool and Liverpool F.C.) that they just applied all around to all UK clubs. Other clubs around the world adopted this naming convention rightfully so (for disambiguation), and some did it for no good reason. You can argue that there is no need for the "FC" in the article title of FC Rubin Kazan since "Rubin Kazan" alone is enough to identify the topic. But, the prevailing rule for article titles for football clubs has ALWAYS been common name first, plus any disambiguator added if need. That's why we have article titles like Boca Juniors and not C.A. Boca Juniors; Deportivo Cali, not A.D. Cali; Colo-Colo, not C.S.D. Colo-Colo; América de Cali instead of C.D. América; Arsenal de Sarandí instead of Arsenal F.C. (Sarandí). On the flip-side, we Club Atlético River Plate to disambiguate from River Plate and São Paulo FC to disambiguate from of São Paulo. Therefore, I Oppose the move since we do not need "FC" added. If you're using the English name "Red Star Belgrade", 99% of the time you're referring to the football club. We don't need to add the FC as a disambiguator or added fluff. Digirami (talk) 15:06, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
When I say Red Star Belgrade I think of Sports Society Red Star Belgrade, under which there are over 20 different Red Star Belgrade clubs in so many different sports. (LAz17 (talk) 17:54, 22 May 2010 (UTC)).
Then you would be in that 1%, wouldn't you. Digirami (talk) 00:43, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Lesser of two evils. “Red Star Belgrade” and “FC Red Star Belgrade” are both ridiculous names for this article, but the FC version is slightly less of a bad idea, as a disambiguator is needed from the other sports this club has teams for. I completely disagree with “common name” rules, so the statement that this club is most commonly referred to in English by the utterly incorrect name of “Red Star Belgrade” has no relevance in my opinion. MTC (talk) 17:29, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
    • "“Red Star Belgrade” and “FC Red Star Belgrade” are both ridiculous names for this article" - if you believe that you have fundamentally misunderstood our article naming policy. It is an English-language encyclopaedia for English speakers, so why is the name used by the majority of English-language sources the majority of the time "ridiculous"? Why shouldn't English speakers be able to easily find the article, at the same name they will most probably read about the club anywhere else? Take a look at WP:COMMONNAME for more detail on the purpose of article titles, and why we pick them as we do. Knepflerle (talk) 20:32, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

What

What the??? What is the next step? To turn KHK Crvena Zvezda into HC Red Star Belgrade, and so forth?? a-ya-yaiy... (LAz17 (talk) 04:00, 30 May 2010 (UTC)).

The next step is to drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 07:47, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Current Squad

Dodat grafički prikaz moguće prve postave. Predlažem da je ne čačkamo svaki čas, s obzirom da je tim tek otišao na pripreme i da je prelazni rok u toku. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romulian (talk • contribs) 17:14, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Bolje pisi na Engleskom, da ne kenjaju zbog jezika. Elem, I don't see point of graphical representation of starting eleven. Because any formation we can put is more or less biased. For example, starting eleven that you put is impossible, in Serbian SuperLiga. Since it has more than 4 foreign players. My suggestion is that we remove this from this page and perhaps place it on this page: 2011–12 Red Star Belgrade season. And that we base that graphical representations on number of appearances in starting lineups during the season. Something like on Arsenal's page: 2010–11 Arsenal F.C. season#Starting 11. Nightfall87 (talk) 17:26, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

We could put it there as well, but I'd like to keep it here, too. I know it's always biased because starting eleven is constantly changing, but this graphics should represent usual picks in those positions, as well as formation we're employing. I agree there are 5 foreign players in it now, but it's going to change during the transfer window, and it's still not clear whether "4 foreigners rule" is going to apply in 2011/2012 season at all (FC Red Star and FC Partizan want to keep things the way they were this season). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romulian (talk • contribs) 18:50, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Semi-Protection

I propose a semi-protection. Constantly come unannounced users and try to distort the data. I wanted a semi-protect. What should I do?--Nado158 (talk) 05:14, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

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Youth school story

OK, after partially cleaning up the youth sections of FK Partizan and FK Vojvodina (and there is still work with Vojvodina as it is unsourced and still with promotional tone), I have decided that here on Red Star there was so much work to do that it was not even worth having it for time being. To start with, the youth section I removed it was almost a copy/paste promotional tone from the one I partially, not to say entirely, cleaned up at FK Partizan article. Now, lets see what was wrong:


  • "Red Star team was always formed out of its youth players and by occasionally bringing young, talented footballers, mainly from smaller Serbian clubs, into the team." - False The same exact sentence was also written in Partizan article, also false.


Red Star was never formed out of its youth players, and only ocassionally had a few players in the starting line-up coming from their youth sqaud.

Some may like it or not, but Red Star mostly brough good players from other teams, first in Yugoslavia, and now in Serbia and some parts of the region. And these clubs the players were brought from were not at all necessarilly "smaller clubs", but mostly quite the opposite, Red Star usually brings to their squad players from regional medium size clubs, not to mention that during Yugoslavia it was not rare to see the big two (CZ and FKP) bringing the best players from the other best Yugoslav clubs (Zeljeznicar, Vardar, Velez, Vojvodina, Rijeka, Osijek, etc.). Basically only Dinamo Zagreb and Hajduk Split had any chance of breaking this tendency and keeping their best players, and even so, numerous players from those two clubs were brought to both, Red Star and Partizan. So, "smaller Serbian clubs"? Leaves a totally wrong idea. Then, can we look at List of Red Star Belgrade footballers and can anyone tell me how many are from its own youth team? Can anyone number me 20 among all? And how many players are on the list? Houndreds, over 1.000 perhaps!


Now, why this exaggeration about the youth schools? What is wrong about bringing players from other clubs? Ah, is it because of the sudden propaganda in Serbia about the glorius "omladinski pogoni" which are going to save the bank accounts of local managers and convince the fans that is better not to buy real professional footballers, but bring instead a bunch of kinds from the school spending 0 euros? Certainly is. And now we have to present in an online encyclopedia a lie how that is the "club tradition" and happend allways? No.


Also, who added lists of players from which half of them were never even players of the youth schools of mentioned clubs? With what purpose? Sinisa Mihajlovic a Vojvodina school product? He was already a senior for 2 entire years before coming to Vojvodina, and he came straight to the senior squad. Well, at least he was not added at Red Star school as well... maybe Lazio could then claim he played in their youth school as well!


Now please, lets be serious. Lets separate what is trouth and what is imagination and current pure propaganda. During Yugoslavia, the biggest Serbian clubs almost allways brought their players from other the top league clubs to their teams, and the players which came from the youth team were basically rare, and even those were mostly brought there from somewhere else. And recently, yes, Partizan did relied on its youth school, but lets not exagerate. Only a hand full of players had really good careers and now because of them the entire subject of the youth academies is exagerated. Yes, because of Jovetic and Nastasic now Partizan academy is suddently a factory of Messi´s and Maradona´s, yes right... And now Red Star wants to copy the system as they don´t have money to buy real players, so they hope some new Vidic or Stankovic will come out of the kinder-garden such as happend with Nastasic in Partizan, but because of that now saying that that is a traditional way Red Star functioned? No. Talking about Partizan, even "Partizanove bebe" from the 1960s were many scouted and broguht from all over Yugoslavia.

Vojvodina as well got their school on feet only recently, and they can only basically say that Krasic was their big name from the recent past, but beside him, it is really the current players that we are mostly talking about when refering to their academy, and most of them are really still building their careers (Aleksic, Medojevic, Katai, etc.) hardly worth glorifiying the club school because of them...

And about Partizan being the second best school after Ajax? That is the joke of the century (and notece I am Partizan fan). I can count you right away at least 20 European clubs with much better academy results and that don´t even mention it in the article...

So, lets not exagerate, OK? And lets see the thing from the real perspective, as the entire histeria at the Serbian FA about football schools will only cost Serbian clubs to loose their professional perspective, and make them simple factories of (mostly mediocre) young players, so the Karadzic-friendly managers get new meat to sell. And also for the old racist chaps ruling Serbian football to convince that foreigners are bad, and that the "school" and "naša deca" is the way... And while club direction boards end up accepting this policy because of convenience (as I said, they convince the fans that is not worth spending money on real pro players when we have self-proclaimed Maradona´s in our schools who will cost us nothing and which we will sell soon and fullfill our pockets), that is not reason enough for us to write here on English Wikipedia unsourced essays about the glorious Serbian football schools... And then old school Serbian self-proclaimed journalists make essays about "Why our petit Maradona´s lost against clubs from Cyprus" not ever even trying to see the reality, but even further making wrong excuses and digging themselfs in further lies and further bullshit, but that is another story...

I made an effort at FK Partizan article to bring it to some sourced encyclopedic level. Now, either we have sourced untendentious texts, or then it is better to have nothing on the youth school subject. FkpCascais (talk) 04:11, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Shouldnt this article be named "Crvena zvezda"?

The name Crvena zvezda is the official name of the club, is registered under that name and its a trademark. Its basically a company name and those are usually written in its native language. Furthermore, the governing body of European football, the UEFA, clearly uses the name Crvena zvezda for this club (see: [5]). Regards, Ratipok (talk) 14:52, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

In my view, probably not as per WP:COMMONNAME. In English, Red Star Belgrade is the more common name. No problem with moving if you could show that there was greater use of Crvena Zvezda in English sources than Red Star Belgrade. Fenix down (talk) 15:26, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
Also what about other sections of the club? E.g.: KK Crvena Zvezda is not called KK Red Star Belgrade for example and none of the other sections use "Red Star" either? Plus Red Star is used in England only because commentators couldn't pronounce their actual name. Otherwise Borussia Dortmund would be called "Prussia Dortmund", Legia Warszawa "Legion Warsaw", Al Ahly SC "National SC" etc. etc. Abcmaxx (talk) 22:44, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
FK Crvena zvezda is imho the most appropriate name for the page about the football club, and Red Star Belgrade should be a redirection for SD Crvena zvezda. OxymoronNBG (talk) 23:11, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
There were already several discussions on this issue, and the result was allways that English commonname for the football club was Red Star Belgrade. And, since this is English language Wikipedia, it doesn't matter what the official name in Serbian language is, but the commonname in English sources. FkpCascais (talk) 23:58, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
A quick English language Google comes up as "Crvena Zvezda" 11.5 million, "Red Star Belgrade" 1.25 million. I severely doubt Red Star is more popular than Crvena Zvezda even in anglophone countries Abcmaxx (talk) 17:05, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
See the archives. Depends on how you did the search. Don't forget it must be English language and specifically about the football club. FkpCascais (talk) 18:02, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 May 2015

The article about Red Star contains some inaccuracies:


Gojko Zec was only a coach in period 1976-1978. Branko Stankovic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branko_Stankovi%C4%87 was the coach 1979-1982 who has brought Red Star to Uefa Cup Final in season 1978/79. During period of 1978-1982, Red Star also won Yugoslav Championship 2 times and 1 national cup. It was also a period of consistent participation in Uefa Cups with some classsic games agest Bayern Munchen in 1978/79, Inter Milan in 1980/81 (quaterfinal of Champions Cup) and Anderlecht in 1981/82 (quaterfinal of Champions Cup).

It is also worth mentioning that Read Star was in the semifinal of European Chmapions Cup 1956/57 losing on single goal by Firoentina scored in last minute.

Article also does not mention extremely successful 1970/71 when unfortunate defeat against Panathenaicos in smeifinal fo Europen Champions Cup prevented Red Star reaching final of the competition.

Also, in season 1974/75 Red Star beat Real madrid in quaterfinal of Cup Winners cup 1975/75 after penalties, which led to the semifinal game versus Ferenzvaros with highest ever official attendance on Red Star Marakana Stadioum (96,095 spectators). Tie was eventually lost with late penalty which prevented going into the extra-time. Mladence (talk) 18:45, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 03:29, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Adam Mitchell

@Nightfall87: why have you put Adam Mitchell back in the list of the first team? I know he has been signed by Red Star, but that is not the same as being in their first team. The team is listed on the Red Star website here and he is not on it. Do you have a reliable source that says he is? JohnCD (talk) 14:56, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

@JohnCD: Problem with that list is that is not so often updated. I guess that their website admin is not as fast as we here on wikipedia. There are few other players that are part of a first team currently but are missing from that list (Phibel, Vučićević, Avramovski, newly signed Ruiz). As for the source, I think that official list of players for pre-season tour could be used for that. Don't know how good you are with Serbian though. Nightfall87 (talk) 16:22, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
John, indeed, the official website list usually takes time to update. Mitchell has been with the team playing the frindlies, no reason whatsoever t exclude him, really. We have been editing football for a decade here, this is absolutelly usual. FkpCascais (talk) 20:12, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
OK, thanks, that's a good enough source. (I can read Cyrillic enough to recognize Адам Мичел, but I rely on Google Translate for the rest). Once he has actually played in the first team for a serious match, he should have an article, but not till then. JohnCD (talk) 22:01, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

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1946 title

OK gentleman, we have a problem here. We need to see how to correctly present this title. Right at start the issue becomes controversial. The Red Star managment wants to have recognised that title as national, but that is not possible. "National" would have meant Yugoslav, and that league was just one of seven qualificational leagues played that season in Yugoslavia. Since in 1945 many pre-WWII clubs were disbanded and new clubs were formed, there was a total break in continuity and qualificational tournaments had to be played in order to find the participants of the first por-WWII edition of national championship, the 1946–47 Yugoslav First League. So, the league Red Star won in 1945–46 was just a qualificational league to find participants for the national championship. Those qualifier tournaments were played by geographically formed leagues. However, this league Red Star played and won is not even SR Serbian league because the territory of SR Serbia included two of these seven leagues: Vojvodina one, and "Serbia" (meaning Central Serbia) one. So in order for Red Star to be "champion of SR Serbia" a final between Red Star and Vojvodina league champion should have been played. But it wasnt. And it wasnt because those leagues were not intended to find any champions, but just qualify teams for national championship.

So, having in mind all this, we can call it "title" because it was a league, but it was not a "national title" (regional at most) and was not even a SR Serbia republic title because included just Central Serbia. And what Red Star direction is totally ignoring is the historical context that back then no one considered that to be a championship of Serbia, and the winner, Serbian champion, but just a qualifiying tournament to see which clubs from Central Serbia would play at national level the following season. Red Star won. Congratulations. But lets not make up things now and rewrite history, we should describe that title as what it really was. FkpCascais (talk) 21:18, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

How does Spartak consider its title? What is the position of FSS? I can speak for Slovenia, the title of Nafta Lendava is not recognised. Linhart (talk) 21:50, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
Thaks you very much Linhard for your input. As fa as I know, and I may be not fully infomed, FSS hasnt gave any thoughts about the matter. As far as I know Spartak Subotica hasnt made any major claims about that season. Nafta Lendava position makes absolute sense. It was a qualifiying league in each of the regions, so champions are to be congratulated, but they earned a place in Yugoslav First League post-WWI edition just as other well positio clubs in all those leagues were awarded to. So making this regional qualifier leagues sort of "championships" it ends up being hiighly missleading and megalomaniac. PS: People can claim I am not a Red Star fan so thaat is why I am holding tthis position, but believe me that even f my "favourite" club was the wiinner, my stance would be exactly the same. FkpCascais (talk) 00:35, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
Well, I think that only if and when something changes and there is some reaction from the FSS, we can consider adding this "title". At the moment we can only note in the text that CZ is claiming it as a national title, but also explain what it actually was.Linhart (talk) 10:03, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

The Croatian Football Federation recognized the title Hajduk from 1946 because Hajduk became the champion of the Republic of Croatia. Only the next season started the Yugoslav championship. Since Croatia is an independent and championship is called the Croatian championship, then all the titles of Croatian champions are counted. As for Spartak, he played the championship of Vojvodina and not Serbia. The championship of Serbia has won by Red Star. Since Serbia is an independent country today, all the titles of Serbian champions in football should be counted. Spartak can get a title if Vojvodina is once an independent state(God, forbid) in the future as the first champion of the Vojvodina of 1946. Red Star iz winner of Serbian championship 1946 and must get the title like Hajduk Split in Croatia as republic cahampions of Serbia and Croatia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VucoCar (talk • contribs) 10:17, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Well, no. Those were just qualifiying leagues to see which clubs will play in First League. There was no trophy or anything. And please don´t make unilateral changes as you did at Yugoslav First League FkpCascais (talk) 15:30, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

You're not right. The competition was the Republican Championship of Serbia. The Croat Football Federation recognized the title Hajduka Split, who then became the champion of Croatia and Red Star champion of Serbia. Today these countries are independent and the republican champions are official champions. So Hajduk was officially awarded the title and Red Star did not, how is that possible? "In the 1946 season (which was played in the spring), the first since the end of the Second World War, Hajduk won the National Championship of the Republic of Croatia and was placed in the newly established Federal League of Yugoslavia. By the decision of HNS this championship is recognized as the official Croatian championship. The team was led by Ljubomir Benčić". http://www.crvenazvezdafk.com/upload/Pdf/titula1946.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by VucoCar (talk • contribs) 18:52, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Super Cup of Yugoslavia, Summer Champions League, League Cup

Greeting. What will we do with the trophies in the Super Cup Cup and the Summer League of Champions of FK Crvena Zvezda and Partizan and Vojvodina: "Crvena Zvezda twice triumphed in the Super Cup of Yugoslavia in 1969 when she beat Dinamo Cup Winner and two years later in 1971 when she beat Hajduk then the champion of the country. FK Red Star also won the League Cup in 1973 and the Summer League of Champions 1971 " http://www.strategija.org/red-star-roter-stern-stella-rossa-etoile-rouge-crvena-zvezda/ And here's the link to the Summer League champions: http://www.strategija.org/fudbalski-turniri-letnja-liga-sampiona/ And this is picture from "Tempo" magazine 1991.

The greatest success since 1992

Why is the placement among the 32 best teams in the Europa League is a greater success than the placement among the 16 teams in the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup? I think that if Zvezda biggest successes after 1992 are the group stage of the Champions League and the knockout phase among 32 teams in the Europa League, it must also be in the round of 16 of the Cup Winners' Cup 1996/97. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VucoCar (talk • contribs) 13:04, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Могу ли играчи од

5 септембра 77.243.22.155 (talk) 18:59, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Plauers

Welcome plauers: Omri Glazer, Zan Filip Kraso, Stefan Bukinac,Emanuel Late Lat,Luka Milivojevic. Tank you ❤️ 188.120.117.71 (talk) 07:56, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

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