Talk:Radio 1 FM (The Gambia)

Requested move 15 January 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. "The" is not needed neither it is a mandatory disambiguator. Please see Gambia national football team, Gambian nationality law, Gambia Regiment, Gambia Armed Forces (closed by non-admin page mover) TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 04:57, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

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Radio 1 FM (Gambia) → ? – I am unsure if (Gambia) is a proper disambiguator but wondering if the correct style for one with the definite article is (the Gambia) or (The Gambia)? Capitalization is inconsistent in other pages ([1]) and I cannot find an appropriate guideline. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 07:42, 15 January 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 19:04, 22 January 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 19:58, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• Why are you sure that (Gambia) is not an OK disambiguator? Seems clear enough. Dicklyon (talk) 05:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

  @Dicklyon The main issue is that The Gambia typically takes the definite article, but I could not find any guidance on the matter. I consulted existing guidance and discussions and could not find any precedent, and we have pages with varying usages among the 30 or so that use a disambiguator: State Intelligence Services (the Gambia), Chief of the Defence Staff (The Gambia), Denton Bridge (Gambia). Our article indicates, The Gambia is one of a very small number of countries for which the definite article is commonly used in its English-language name ... The article is also officially used by the country's government and by international bodies. The article was originally used because the region was named for "the Gambia [River]". In 1964, shortly prior to the country's independence, then-Prime Minister Dawda Jawara wrote to the Permanent Committee on Geographical Names for British Official Use requesting that the name the Gambia retain the definite article, in part to reduce confusion with Zambia which had also recently become independent. At present, both Gambia and the Gambia are in common use. One of the reasons for opening this discussion is to have a record of what the correct usage is so that people in this situation do not have to open one like I do to find out. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 08:39, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

  I understand what the main issue is, but my question was why are you sure if you don't have any guidance on it? Dicklyon (talk) 23:32, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

  That is fair @Dicklyon, and I will revise my statement to reflect that. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:47, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose – Like we did with Blackbird (Beatles song) for the band The Beatles, it's OK to drop the the in such contexts. Dicklyon (talk) 17:05, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
• Support - Since the parent article is titled The Gambia, it would be correct to title this "The Gambia" too for the disambiguator. "The Beatles" are really outliers in this regard, as other groups' music includes "The", following a failed RFC a few years ago which maintained that convention. See for example Do It Again (The Beach Boys song).  — Amakuru (talk) 16:27, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
• Support Radio 1 FM (Gambia) → Radio 1 FM (The Gambia) per Amakuru. The guiding factor in such instances should be the form used in the parent article. Name inconsistencies frequently occur in geographical entries and hopefully will be aligned at some point once this RM achieves a WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:08, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
• Support Radio 1 FM (Gambia) → Radio 1 FM (The Gambia). Given the lack of guidance, it would be best to default to using the article name for the disambiguator, i.e. The Gambia, as that can be assumed to be the correct name. Given that the guideline for definite or indefinite article at beginning of article names - which is the closest thing to relevant guidance that I could find - suggests that the conditions for including "The" at the start of a name are sometimes met if the Wikipedia article name is... [an] official or commonly used proper name, which would translate reasonably well to this situation. If taken as useful guidance here, it would mean the use of not only "The" is encouraged, but also capitalisation (as the official and common name is "The Gambia"). Further, the use of a capitalised "The" for The Gambia suggests (per the same guideline) that "The" likely would/should be included and capitalised in running text - If the definite or indefinite article would be capitalized in running text, then include it at the beginning of the Wikipedia article name - which further suggests that "The" should be included and capitalised. --Xurizuri (talk) 02:38, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

  That article then goes on to render it "the Gambia" in most running text. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 07:40, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

• I'm neutral on which disambiguator to use, but I'll echo the hope that this discussion will establish consensus which will allow us to move all Gambia-disambiguated articles to a consistent naming scheme. Here's a link to a search for articles using "(Gambia)" as disambiguator (though it also includes redirects). I also found two with lowercase "the": State Intelligence Services (the Gambia), The Point (the Gambia). Colin M (talk) 17:41, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Follow-up moves of other disambiguated titles for consistency

We still have around 10 articles using the disambiguator (Gambia), such as Basse (Gambia). Is it fair to say that the RM discussion above has established consensus that we should consistently use (The Gambia) as the disambiguator for these articles - such that they can just be boldly/technically moved? Or should they go through a multi-move RM? My view is the former, but I thought I'd check to see if anyone objects. Also pinging No such user who closed the MRV, in case they want to chime in. Colin M (talk) 17:01, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

I would agree that this constitutes a precedent for moving them all. Not that there are many, nor that they're particularly important articles. It's good to have consistency, particularly as there's no substantial reason to deviate – those are just disambiguators, anyway. No such user (talk) 17:19, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

...however: most of those come from Category:Local Government Areas of the Gambia, and should be distinguished from the towns they are named after... which are also in the Gambia. Thus, they need a different disambiguation scheme: Brikama (local government area) vs Brikama is good, but Kanifing (Gambia) vs. Kanifing District is not. No such user (talk) 17:42, 2 March 2022 (UTC)