Talk:Please Myself

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus and also to ensure this and other discussions don't create an inconsistency, a new multi-move request has been setup over at Talk:No Regrets (Faye Wong album)#Requested multi-page move and all editors are highly encouraged to voice your thoughts over there. (non-admin closure) Tiggerjay (talk) 15:07, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

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Ingratiate Oneself → Tou hou ji gei – This title of a Cantonese album (討好自己) has no official English title. The current title "Ingratiate Oneself"; unfortunately, no articles have used this title. I searched it in Google and found none. Tou hou (討好) would also translate into "please" (or ingratiate); ji gei (自己) would also translate into yourself, myself, ourselves, etc. George Ho (talk) 16:36, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

• Comment I don't know where Billboard gets its new release info but if it is from Polygram then To Please Myself (Faye Wong album) would seem to be the correct + helpful title. It also indicates that the Shane Homan book 2006 may be reliable. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:58, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

2006? That's 12 years after release. I wouldn't take that book seriously. --George Ho (talk) 02:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Shane Holman, ed., Access All Eras: Tribute Bands and Global Pop Culture seems to coincide significantly with both Billboard (as in this case) and Jeffries (other albums, Jeffries doesn't mention this one). He must have used some kind of industry listing. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:37, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

• Comment what did the Hong Kong English language papers call it? -- 70.24.250.103 (talk) 04:38, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Already tried site:http://www.scmp.com . Zero. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:56, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. AllMusic gives To Please Myself. Transliterated Chinese seems most unhelpful in a title. What system is this? Pinyin is Tăohăo Zìjĭ. Kauffner (talk) 14:46, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I forgot; this is a Cantonese album. I used Cantonese romanization to reflect that. As for the sources, that makes 3-2 or 2-2 for both titles. --George Ho (talk) 16:10, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
• Support as improvement - cannot stay at current title when English source says To Please Myself. Transliterate Chinese per Dandan you qing (but that is Mandarin). Ideally would prefer Yale Touhou zigei for Cantonese, proposal looks like Jyutping but support even if George doesn't amend RM to Yale. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:34, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose romanisation, suggest Pleasing Myself, otherwise Please Myself or similar. Homan's book seems to settle on quite good translations even when rather stilted alternatives are in common use on fan sites. I have a copy of a Japanese magazine advert including poor English translations for another Faye Wong album, and suspect that is where these stilted/erroneous translations started from. – Fayenatic London 20:04, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
  • How would very little found sources make English titles common? One or two use To Please Myself, while another uses Ingratiate Oneself. These titles are not commonly used by reliable sources. --George Ho (talk) 03:40, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
    • How else can you explain the use of "Ingratiate Oneself", when any person competent in Chinese & English would translate it as "please/pleasing myself"? It must have started somewhere, and then been picked up by one fan site after another. One that is traceable is the official lyrics insert in the Japanese edition of Only Love Strangers which was headed "Lovers and Strangers", and that title was later used by the BBC writing in English. However, I don't think we should use that as the article name for that album, because it's neither a good translation nor the dominant translation in English sources. – Fayenatic London 12:22, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
• In ictu oculi has pointed out at Talk:Restless (Faye Wong album) that MOS:ALBUM seems to require a romanised title. However, I prefer his advice above, to follow Billboard and Homan and use some version of "please myself". – Fayenatic London 12:22, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose bit of a conundrum, but I don't like this trend of renaming cantopop albums merely for the paucity of sources for the various 'English titles'. If anything there isn't such a thing as standardised cantonese pinyin, and the sinicised names as proposed look weird, are completely meaningless to the English-speaker, and it has to be said these sinicised names have definitely not passed into English language, and in such a case I would say an approximative yet elegantly translated English title from one of the reviews is certainly preferable. -- Ohconfucius ^{ping / poke} 09:56, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. The current title may not be the best one (or may be), but the proposed title is completely baseless in terms of policy. Andrewa (talk) 18:10, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Multi-page move

Please see a new multi-move request has been setup over at Talk:No Regrets (Faye Wong album)#Requested multi-page move and all editors are highly encouraged to voice your thoughts over there. Tiggerjay (talk) 15:08, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:No Regrets (Faye Wong album) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 15:14, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Album cover image

There is a current discussion at Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion/2024_April_16#File:Please_Myself_pink_cover.jpg. – Fayenatic London 10:28, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

The framed image file:Please Myself pink frame cover.jpg was used in the cited Pitchfork article, but I'd never seen it before. Perhaps it was used on a later reissue. I have reverted the article image to what I believe was the common cover, file:Please Myself pink cover.jpg. – Fayenatic London 07:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

I support the inclusion of a different alternate cover in the article, File:Please Myself white cover.jpg, but Fastily has tagged it as failing criterion 8 of WP:NFCC. @Fastily: it is a frequently-seen alternate cover, and is therefore helpful in confirming visual identification of the topic of the article, all the more as it is a foreign-language album. As such, is it not allowable? – Fayenatic London 13:38, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Not without accompanying critical commentary. Also there's already a freely licensed version in the infobox so this is going to be a very tough sell. -Fastily 06:12, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

@Fastily: File:Please Myself white cover.jpg is not a "version" of the pink cover, it's a completely different image. I dispute your claim that it fails criterion 8.

Please ping me if you reply. – Fayenatic London 10:09, 6 June 2024 (UTC)