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Requested move 11 November 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Pinocchio (upcoming Disney film) moved to Pinocchio (2022 film), Pinocchio (2022 film) moved to Pinocchio (upcoming film). Per Nardog's proposal, for which there is a rough consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 11:52, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]


– Release date known. Georgia guy (talk) 18:04, 11 November 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran • sign the guestbook • (talk) 08:54, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from 1st page's talk page (before the two move requests were merged)

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Comments from 2nd page's talk page (before the two move requests were merged)

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Comments after the move requests were merged

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  • Fixed malformed move request by requesting all associated moves here. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 22:35, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Maybe an option to the pages can be "Pinocchio (2022 Disney film)" and "Pinocchio (2022 Netflix film)"? BrookTheHumming (talk) 00:27, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:NCDAB states to avoid proper nouns if possible. InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Don't these comments involve a certain amount of WP:CRYSTALBALL prediction of the future? What's wrong with keeping "upcoming" until an actual release occurs? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:28, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Per WP:UFILM, we use the year the film is released, no matter how long into the future, if it has a release date. "Upcoming" is only used if there's no set release date yet. —El Millo (talk) 01:33, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move the Disney film to "Pinocchio (2022 film)" and the Netflix film to "Pinocchio (upcoming film)". The only sourced statement in Pinocchio (2022 film) about it coming out next year in fact says On January 14, 2021, Netflix CEO Ted Sarandos revealed that the film's release could be moved to "2022 or later", whereas the Disney film is officially slated for release "Fall 2022", which is much more concrete. The Netflix film was reported to be delayed to 2022 in August, but all it's based on is a tweet by a reporter for a publication I've never heard of, who "didn't reveal the reason for the film potentially being pushed back". That 2021 has only 48 days left and we've seen no marketing obviously suggests the 2021 release is out of the window, but we have no word a 2022 release is officially set and it could very well come out in 2023, 2024, or 2025.
    If and only if it becomes clear that they are coming out in the same year should we contemplate what the disambiguators should be. If one uses "Disney" the other should use "Netflix", and if one "animated" the other "live-action". (Although the Disney one is said to be a "live-action retelling", it could very well use a lot of animation and our article defines it as "live-action-CGI animated", so we might want to wait for stills or a trailer to come out before deciding whether to disambiguate by medium). Nardog (talk) 14:45, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note to closer: the second requested move was executed while this discussion was still open. I reverted it to keep this discussion clear and per the RMCD bot tag. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 16:48, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am considering moving Pinocchio (2022 film) to Pinocchio (2022 Netflix film) and Pinocchio (upcoming Disney film) to Pinocchio (2022 Disney film). 104.222.121.71 (talk) 23:22, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not possible, per the arguments laid out above, as the Netflix film isn't confirmed for 2022 and using proper nouns in disambiguations is advised against if there are other options. —El Millo (talk) 23:25, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • This is only tangential, but I find that reading of WP:NCDAB leaning too close to the letter than to the spirit of the law. What it actually says is: "the generic class (avoiding proper nouns, as much as possible) that includes the topic, as in Mercury (element), Seal (emblem)". So it's only proscribing use of a proper noun as the overall class for disambiguation; it doesn't proscribe use of a proper noun as an additional qualifier to a generic class. Using "Disney" or "Netflix" in a parenthetical dab wouldn't run counter to the guideline as long as it ends in "film", which is the generic class to which the subjects belong. In this particular case, disambiguation by medium is indeed preferable because it's more generic, but if both films use substantial amounts of animation to such an extent that readers will plausibly be confused by disambiguation by medium, I won't rule out disambiguating by studio. But of course all this is irrelevant unless both come out in the same year. Nardog (talk) 02:59, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but both should be disambiguate perhaps use BrookTheHumming's suggestions. The Disney one has 35,543 views compared with 30,132[[1]] for the Netflix one. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:17, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. What do we have to wait for before we can close this RM?? Georgia guy (talk) 11:12, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Post move comment: a lot of pages that link to Pinocchio (2022 film) should now instead link to Pinocchio (upcoming film). Any help with changing these is appreciated! Lennart97 (talk) 12:19, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2 December 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (closed by non-admin page mover) BegbertBiggs (talk) 13:50, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]


– Per the suggested titles in the previous RM above and the advice against using proper names as disambiguation in WP:NCDAB. The animated film, then with no set year of release, has now been confirmed to release in the last quarter of 2022 by its director Guillermo del Toro.[1] Pinocchio (2022 film) would then become a redirect to Pinocchio (disambiguation)#Film and television productions and characters, just as Pinocchio (film) currently is. —El Millo (talk) 06:30, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Pinging past participants of the previous discussion, who might want to weigh in: @ZX2006XZ, BrookTheHumming, BarrelProof, Crouch, Swale, and 104.222.121.71: Paintspot Infez (talk) 19:14, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References

  1. ^ Mancuso, Vinnie (December 1, 2021). "Exclusive: Guillermo del Toro Offers Update on His 'Frankenstein'-Inspired 'Pinocchio', Reveals Release Window". Collider. Archived from the original on December 2, 2021. Retrieved December 2, 2021.

"Pinocchio (upcoming Disney film)" listed at Redirects for discussion

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An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Pinocchio (upcoming Disney film) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 12#Pinocchio (upcoming Disney film) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 03:31, 12 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 December 2022

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. —usernamekiran (talk) 21:25, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pinocchio (2022 live-action film) → Pinocchio (2022 Disney film) – Move over redirect. The proposed new title identifies the film more clearly, and is, in my view, more accurate, as this is a CGI film rather than being fully live-action. Tevildo (talk) 08:40, 22 December 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 17:04, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't it just be Pinocchio (2022 film), especially if the rename for the del Toro film happens? What other 2022 film simply titled Pinocchio is there? 70.163.208.142 (talk) 23:23, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not unless this is the only film released in 2022 that could be called "Pinocchio", which it clearly isn't. Rreagan007 (talk) 23:30, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The three 2022 films I'm aware of that could be called Pinocchio are this one, Pinocchio (2022 animated film) which might be renamed to Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio, and a Russian direct-to-DVD animated film officially titled Pinocchio: A True Story. There's precedent with the article titles for Disney's other live-action films. 70.163.208.142 (talk) 23:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The del Toro film's official title is just "Pinocchio" - the proposed rename of that film's article is following the title text on the poster rather than the billing block. Tevildo (talk) 00:19, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Er, it's listed as "Guillermo del Toro’s Pinocchio" on Netflix, which in this case is clearly as official as it gets.--Eldomtom2 (talk) 13:19, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Film has been notified of this discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 17:03, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Disney has been notified of this discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 17:03, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: changing my !support to an !oppose per WP:NCDAB and WP:MFILM. It's clear, proper nouns should not be used in dabs. Mike Allen 15:36, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support First of all in agreement with the reasoning of MikeAllen, SarahJH07, Rreagan007, and Tbhotch. Secondly, this rename would help further distinguish all the Pinocchio films in 2022, as 70.163.208.142 points out. I have to fully disagree with the arguments of LancedSoul and InfiniteNexus in that this discussion is relevant now. The title change would help viewers not be confused between all of those films. That seems to be a simple enough reason to support the change. Historyday01 (talk) 01:29, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • OpposeWP:NCDAB discourages use of proper nouns in dab. Perusing Category:Walt Disney Pictures films, which this article is categorised under, among many others, shows that the usage of 'Disney' in dab qualifier is an exception to the norm for the Disney films that have been disambiguated for one reason or another. The supporters argue that adding Disney to the dab will help readers to distinguish better that this is the Disney version, among the other 2. However, the proposed title is already redirecting to the article here, thus onwiki search will suggest the current title; Google searches using variations of 'Pinnochio 2022 Disney' throws up this article at the top; and a hatnote is on the article to notify/remind the readers that this is Disney's 2022 Pinnochio film. For the other 2 films, one has already been naturally disambiguated, while the other has no article and would hardly be noticed by the English audience due to it being in Russian (and the cloud that Russia is under at the moment) in the near future. – robertsky (talk) 14:19, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. For those unfamiliar or less familiar with the subject, the medium is a clearer disambiguation than the production company (I didn’t know that Del Toro’s version wasn’t made by Disney until now). — HTGS (talk) 21:54, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Box Office?

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Why isn't any box office information listed here? This movie came out 5 months ago and has finished its theatrical run. Therefore the omission of this info seems odd. --Cavgunner11 (talk) 02:33, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It was only released on Disney Plus. Mike Allen 03:17, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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