Talk:Phoenician arrowheads

A fact from Phoenician arrowheads appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 13 August 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the earliest-known Phoenician inscriptions (examples pictured) were found near Bethlehem?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Phoenician arrowheads.

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Ruweiseh

Hi @Huldra, Zero0000, and Elias Ziade: I have a puzzle too. Any idea where Ruweiseh might be?

I have two sources:

The original discoverer, Paul-Emile Guigues:[1] "Au lieu dit Roueisseh, près de Nabatiyet el-fôqa, à gauche de la route Saïda-Gedeideh Marg'ayoun, qui traverse l’immense atelier préhistorique de Qal'at-es-saqîf, j’ai, au cours d'une mission d’exploration et de sondages archéologiques, procédé à une reconnaissance préliminaire de la nécropole sise à cet endroit."
The Louvre, where it currently sits:[2] "Place of discovery Roueisse = Kafr ed-Djarra ; Roueisse = Kafr ed-Djarra (?)"

The first says it is near Nabatieh Fawka, the second that it is near to Kfar Jarra (another necropolis which Guigues worked on). Very confusing.

Onceinawhile (talk) 22:08, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A very small scale map in The Cambridge Ancient History, Vol 3, Part 1 supports the Nabatieh Fawka location. I didn't find it explicitly on a map yet. Zero^talk 03:28, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK, the 1:20K map Nabatîyé (1943) shows the peak of Jebel Roasïsset el Halâl 1km west of Nabatieh Fawka and Tell Rouaiss 1km northwest. Guigues' comment "to the left of the Saïda-Gedeideh Marg'ayoun road" is little help without a direction of travel, but the tell is directly adjacent on the left of the road when traveling west. Zero^talk 03:56, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you this is perfect. I have found the map and am adding it here. Onceinawhile (talk) 09:16, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 07:24, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Phoenician arrowheads

... that the earliest-known Phoenician inscriptions (examples pictured) were found near Bethlehem? Source: Cross, Frank Moore (1980). "Newly Found Inscriptions in Old Canaanite and Early Phoenician Scripts". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research. 238 (238 (Spring, 1980)). The University of Chicago Press on behalf of The American Schools of Oriental Research: 1–20. doi:10.2307/1356511. JSTOR 1356511. S2CID 222445150. The discovery in 1953 of three arrowheads from 'El-Khadr inscribed with three identical inscriptions of the late 12th century B.c. initiated a new stage in the study of alphabetic origins (Cross and Milik 1954: 5-15; Cross and Milik 1956: 15-23). The brief texts of the arrowheads provided secure readings of alphabetic signs at precisely the period of transition from the older pictographic (ProtoCanaanite or Old Canaanite) script to the Early Linear (Phoenician) alphabet.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Mayu Island

Created by Onceinawhile (talk). Self-nominated at 09:56, 23 July 2022 (UTC).[reply]

OK sounds like an interesting subject - I will review this - hope to start soon - ping me if not started in a couple of days Chidgk1 (talk) 07:07, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Onceinawhile: New enough, long enough, checked no copyvio, do you want to change the redlink to al-Khader or make a redirect? The cite is very old - might they not have found earlier inscriptions since 1980? Chidgk1 (talk) 18:08, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As 3 refs Mitchell, Sass and Deutsch et al are not used you could delete them or move to "further reading" Chidgk1 (talk) 18:18, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is the issn right for Millik and Cross? Chidgk1 (talk) 18:23, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Would the short description be better as "Arrowheads from the 11th century BC onwards, inscribed in Phoenician"?

Ah I now see you have a recent cite that still only one found in context - so I guess that shows still oldest. Chidgk1 (talk) 18:46, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Chidgk1, thanks for all these comments, which were very constructive. I believe I have now implemented them all. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:55, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - good to go Chidgk1 (talk) 06:07, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

[reply]

Article title

Onceinawhile, I think Phoenician arrowhead inscriptions would reflect the content of the article better than Phoenician arrowheads, what do you think? That would also be consistent with Byblos clay cone inscriptions. TSventon (talk) 07:31, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi TSventon, I don’t mind so if you or others feel strongly please change it. My thinking was as follows:

Per WP:CONCISE, I don’t think anyone will be confused
Phoenician often refers to language, so these arrowheads can be considered Phoenician in terms on what is written on them

Whilst the article is focused on inscribed examples, I would be happy for it to be expanded at some point to included non-inscribed examples. There is much less research on that though, as far as I know.

Onceinawhile (talk) 07:42, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]