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Benchmark Cheating?

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Hi Emir of Wikipedia, could you clarify what Synthesis issue you are claiming exists? My edit only used information from one source for the body of the text. The other two sources were for relating back to the previous devices that D4R1U5 had brought up. Also, could you clarify how your prefered wording is a better representation of the source than the original wording or my wording? For ease of discussion, I have copied the three versions below: 72.139.70.6 (talk) 21:19, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Original: With the OnePlus 5T, OnePlus announced that they would be removing the benchmark cheating that had been installed on previous devices.[1]
D4R1U5: With the OnePlus 5T, OnePlus announced that they would not be improving the phone's performance during benchmarks, as was seen with the OnePlus 5.[2]
Current: With the OnePlus 5T, XDA Developers announced that OnePlus would no longer be locking the CPU and GPU to their maximum clock speeds during benchmarks,[3] as was seen with the OnePlus 5[4] and OnePlus 3T.[5]
The synthesis issue is that the two articles you have used to reference don't mention the OnePlus 5T, and therefore linking them devices is original research. Please read WP:SYNTHESIS to understand the meaning of that word on Wikipedia. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 22:26, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I see where your confusion is coming from. There is no third claim being made or implied. The OnePlus engaged in benchmark cheating with the OnePlus 5T, and they also did with previous devices. The references for the OnePlus 5 and OnePlus 3T were not relating it back to the OnePlus 5T, they were confirmation that there was benchmark cheating on them as well. The first reference for the OnePlus 5T is the one that relates it back to the OnePlus 5 and OnePlus 3T. That being said, if that was your issue, I'm curious why you reverted to D4R1U5's edit (which maintains that issue and adds WP:NPOV issues by using marketing speak (instead of matching the source's wording) rather than the edit before that? Or rather, if that was your issue with it, why did you revert to a problematic edit instead of just editing it to fix your issue?72.139.70.6 (talk) 14:11, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There is a third claim being implied, that the two sources used to reference the claims about the 5 and 3T link it the 5T. In Wikipedia the references are not merely links to articles related but citations for the information written, we can not combine sources to make our own claims. The D4R1U5 version does not have this problem as it doesn't have the other citations. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:34, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, we should revert to the initial version that doesn't have either the synthesis or npov issues. That being said, the first link directly relates the OnePlus 5T benchmark cheating issues to the two previous devices (linking to those specific articles even), which I believe should be sufficient for supporting that claim (although we may need to move the cites around to get proper coverage). Do you agree?72.139.70.6 (talk) 17:18, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The initial version's wording doesn’t sound right in my opinion. You can’t say that "they would be removing the benchmark cheating", that’s just wrong. D4R1U5 (talk) 17:26, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The OnePlus 5T source says that "OnePlus will no longer target benchmarks with performance modes that do not represent day-to-day usage", and the OnePlus 3T source (when they originally removed it before adding it back in) says that "OnePlus will be removing the benchmark cheating from their phones." (matching closely with the original "OnePlus announced that they would be removing the benchmark cheating that had been installed on previous devices"), as they were explicitly removing the benchmark cheating code from the phones. They very much are still working to improve benchmark scores, just through regular CPU scaling improvements that everyone does, rather than by targeting benchmarks. That being said, I agree that we should be more explicit, which is why I worded it as "XDA Developers announced that OnePlus would no longer be locking the CPU and GPU to their maximum clock speeds during benchmarks".72.139.70.6 (talk) 17:32, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Any comments? 72.139.70.6 (talk) 00:22, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for D4R1U5. --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 00:26, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, then lets ping @D4R1U5: again. They've been on wikipedia over the past couple days but haven't commented yet. 72.139.70.6 (talk) 17:55, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's been two weeks since the last ping. I think we're good to move on at this point. 72.139.70.6 (talk) 16:07, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There is WP:NORUSH. I'll ping @D4R1U5: one last time. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:30, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Emir of Wikipedia: I was a bit busy over these days, so, sorry for the delay.
Actually, I would prefer something like this: "With the launch of the 5T, OnePlus announced that they would be not be installing particular software present in previous devices, which overclocked the device's components to perform better in benchmarks, than in day-to-day usage." Guess it matches the source? D4R1U5 (talk) 16:54, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I completely understand that you were busy. Your proposed text sounds good to me, except possibly the use of the word overclock. However I think that due to how long this has taken we might just have to accept that for the time being. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:58, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Emir of Wikipedia: Ok. Let’s wait for the IP's response. D4R1U5 (talk) 14:56, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Emir of Wikipedia: 5 days have passed. Do we move on or wait a few more? D4R1U5 (talk) 16:35, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@D4R1U5: There is WP:NORUSH, but I would say that you should put in your proposed version now. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:52, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Emir of Wikipedia:  Done. D4R1U5 (talk) 17:18, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Emir. "Overclock" is not the right word. They didn't overclock the chips, they kept the chips within their regular clock range. They just either pinned it to maximum boost clock speed, or set a very high clock floor (depending on which iteration of the benchmark cheating you are looking at). Also, I'm not sure I'd call it "performing better". It was marginally faster (a couple percentage points), but resulted in unusably high temperatures (50+ degrees Celsius). As well, we should probably make mention of the name that was being used to discuss it ("Benchmark Cheating") for the sake of enabling people to look up more information about it after reading the paragraph.72.139.70.6 (talk) 16:34, 10 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What about something like this: "With the launch of the 5T, OnePlus announced that they would not be installing particular controversial software present in previous devices, which *need a new word in place of "overclocked"* the device's components to perform better in benchmarks, than in day-to-day usage, which also caused the device to heat up tremendously." Can you add up to include that benchmark cheating part. D4R1U5 (talk) 17:27, 10 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The source says "altered performance scaling". Could we use that? Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 17:40, 10 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that might work. So, we're talking about something like this then I guess: "With the launch of the 5T, OnePlus announced that they would not be installing particular controversial benchmark cheating software present in previous devices, which altered the devices' hardware performance scaling to perform better in benchmarks than in day-to-day usage, which also caused the device to heat up tremendously." 72.139.70.6 (talk) 15:20, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
v2: "With the launch of the 5T, OnePlus announced that they would not be installing particular controversial benchmark cheating software present in previous devices, which altered the devices' hardware performance scaling to perform better in benchmarks than in day-to-day usage, while also causing the device to heat up tremendously."72.139.70.6 (talk) 15:32, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
How about "OnePlus stated that the with the 5T they would not alter performance scaling that is unrepresentative of every day usage, like they did with the OnePlus 5"? -- Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 17:07, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That is a bit of a disjointed sentence, and again loses the name that it was being referred to as. Are you looking for something like this? "OnePlus stated that the with the launch of the OnePlus 5T they would no longer engage in benchmark cheating by altering performance scaling during benchmarks in ways that are unrepresentative of every day usage, like they did with the OnePlus 5, OnePlus 3T, and OnePlus 3."? It loses some of the context of why it was an issue, but still leaves people with the keywords to go do additional research and gets the information across. 72.139.70.6 (talk) 17:52, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What bit of the sentence is disjointed? What name that it is being referred to as is being lost? What context is being lost? Wikipedia is not a place to leave people with keywords to do research but an encyclopedia. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 20:39, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Emir of Wikipedia: I know of WP:NORUSH, but it’s been over a month now. No one seems to agree with what the others' proposed texts, something has to be done. D4R1U5 (talk) 06:31, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have rewritten the version in the article. If in the future disagreement arises we may need to consider another avenue like disputer resolution or a RfC. --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 12:55, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Emir of Wikipedia: Agreed. D4R1U5 (talk) 10:06, 15 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Emir of Wikipedia: Re: disjointed; Multiple parts of the proposed sentence were disjointed, the worst offender of course being "OnePlus stated that the with the 5T". Re: Name; The name that this has been referred to as in discussions throughout the industry and in pretty much every news article is "benchmark cheating", as I stated above. Re: context; everything about what happened or why it was an issue is missing. People will currently have to go to other articles to find the information (and funnily enough, there currently isn't a direct link to those sections of those articles here). Re: keywords; You're right, Wikipedia isn't the place to use short vague sentences. Re: updated text; I can assure you that the OnePlus 5T absolutely "uses performance scaling" in all applications, just like every other computer built in the last couple decades... What they aren't doing is overriding the performance scaling to max out CPU and GPU clocks and ignore thermal constraints in specific applications like they were on previous devices.72.139.70.6 (talk) 13:46, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Do you propose a change to the version that is currently included in the article? If not then this discussion is over. --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 13:51, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, as I stated, we need to 1. reword the "5T no longer uses performance scaling" bit (as that is not representative of how computers work or of what the issue is, and will just result in more citogenesis issues like those that originally happened when it was being incorrectly called "overclocking"), 2. either explain what the issue was in more detail or link to the section of the OnePlus article that explains it, and 3. actually refer to the issue by its common name ("benchmark cheating") rather than skirting around the name. Do you have any issues with those three specific proposed change paths (before we get into specific wording)? 72.139.70.6 (talk) 14:04, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Emir of Wikipedia: Pinging Emir. 72.139.70.6 (talk) 23:48, 7 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hello again IP. You have a alteration the current wording to suggest, or are you okay with the current version? --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 17:59, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As stated in the post above the ping that you are replying to, no I do not believe the current wording is accurate. I have highlighted what specific parts of the wording need to be changed. Do you have any issues with those ideas of areas that need to be reviewed (before diving into specific wording)? I would like to come to an understanding on which areas we are looking at before trying to figure out the exact wording, as I feel it will make for a much more productive discussion. 72.139.70.6 (talk) 19:22, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What is inaccurate about the wording? --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 19:40, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence currently states that "the 5T no longer uses performance scaling in benchmarks". The OnePlus 5T absolutely "uses performance scaling" in all applications (including benchmarks), just like every other computer built in the last couple decades. What they aren't doing is overriding the performance scaling to max out CPU and GPU clocks and ignore thermal constraints in specific applications like they were on previous devices. 72.139.70.6 (talk) 00:28, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've edited the wording to fit what you have said. Grateful I am for your help, but I think we should now move onto the "reception" section which is currently empty. --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 15:43, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@D4R1U5: Pinging a mentioned user. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:30, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Zimmerman, Steven (2017-11-20). "DO Trust OnePlus 5T Benchmarks in Reviews". XDA Developers. Archived from the original on 2017-12-12. Retrieved 2017-12-12. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
  2. ^ Zimmerman, Steven (2017-11-20). "DO Trust OnePlus 5T Benchmarks in Reviews". XDA Developers. Archived from the original on 2017-12-12. Retrieved 2017-12-12. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
  3. ^ Zimmerman, Steven (2017-11-20). "DO Trust OnePlus 5T Benchmarks in Reviews". XDA Developers. Archived from the original on 2017-12-12. Retrieved 2017-12-12. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
  4. ^ "Do NOT Trust OnePlus 5 Benchmarks in Reviews - How OnePlus Cheated". xda-developers. 2017-06-22. Retrieved 2017-06-25.
  5. ^ "Benchmark Cheating Strikes Back: How OnePlus and Others Got Caught Red-Handed, and What They've Done About it". xda-developers. 2017-01-31. Retrieved 2017-08-03.

More Info

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I think more info should be added like price, reviews, and more pictures or screenshots of OS Topkekin 18:55, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Feel free to do that if it is reliably sourced. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 19:50, 17 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

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Hi

Why is this separate from the 5? It hardly seems like a massive upgrade. Is there really a reason for it to get a whole new page? I don't see why this is any different from the 3 and 3T being on the same page, and I have also tagged the 8T for the same reason. Chaosdruid (talk) 02:33, 24 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify, the OnePlus 3 and OnePlus 3T are both on separate pages. The same goes for the 4 and 4T, 6 and 6T and 7 and 7T as well. As for this article, I do think it should not be merged, both devices are notable on their own and they do have quite a few differences from their size, display, camera and the fact the 5T had no home button unlike the 5. To be honest I'd personally say the 5T is more similar to the 6 than the 5 myself. --Voello talk 14:15, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, they're separate devices with different dimensions, specs, reviews, and histories. Think Galaxy S vs. Note. 198.52.130.137 (talk) 00:00, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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