Talk:Omar Sharif/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Surname spelling

The article spells his birth surname as "Shalhoub" but the nearby photo caption styles it "Chalhoub". The difference likely in Anglicizing, but it seems as if Wikipedia ought to be consistent.Irv (talk) 03:56, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

His origin

Omar Sherif

Cairo Times -- 05 March 1998

Omar Sherif was born Michel Dimitri Shalhoub in 1931 to a wealthy Alexandrian family of Christian Lebanese origin. He was discovered in Egypt by director Yousef Chahine in 1953, then nine years later discovered again by David Lean. His introduction to the Western audiences that were to adore him was a scene in Lawrence of Arabia when he appears out of the shimmering desert horizon galloping on a camel. How do you follow that? He did, once, with Dr Zhivago. After that his reputationas a drinker, gambler and womanizer loomed larger than his acting career. His presence in public consciousness well outlasted his shelf-life on screen. He gradually drifted back to Egypt, starting in the late seventies. After heart surgery in 1993, he decided to quit Paris. But still his life has the air of someone of no fixed abode.

<ref>http://omarsharif.netfirms.com/articles.htm</ref>

Lebanese bebe (talk) 20:03, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

This is NOT a reliable source. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 17:06, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

yes it is and also Sharif was a melkite and Zahle is the homeland of Melkites. Shalhoub is Lebanese surname —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.198.189 (talk) 23:56, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I inserted reliable sources, Omar Sharif was born Michael Shalhoub in Alexandria to a family of Lebanese origin...Please stop distorting facts.

http://www.answers.com/topic/omar-sharif <- encyclopedia

Katz,Ephraim.The Film Encyclopedia. New York: Crowell, 1979.

http://www.vh1.com/movies/person/57169/personmain.jhtml

http://www.blockbuster.com/movies/omar-sharif.html

http://movies.nytimes.com/person/64847/Omar-Sharif?inline=nyt-per

Cairo Times -- 05 March 1998

Omar Sherif was born Michel Dimitri Shalhoub in 1931 to a wealthy Alexandrian family of Christian Lebanese origin. He was discovered in Egypt by director Yousef Chahine in 1953, then nine years later discovered again by David Lean. His introduction to the Western audiences that were to adore him was a scene in Lawrence of Arabia when he appears out of the shimmering desert horizon galloping on a camel. How do you follow that? He did, once, with Dr Zhivago. After that his reputationas a drinker, gambler and womanizer loomed larger than his acting career. His presence in public consciousness well outlasted his shelf-life on screen. He gradually drifted back to Egypt, starting in the late seventies. After heart surgery in 1993, he decided to quit Paris. But still his life has the air of someone of no fixed abode. Lebanese bebe (talk) 19:39, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

His boyhood school years

I just revisited this biographical entry after some years. I recall reading that he had a very negative reputation at his school being remembered as a sadistic bully and physically acting out against fellow students. Why was this removed? These are informative additions that give insight to the character of the individual. His aggressive manner was apparently continued throughout his life as is documented later in this entry. Betempte (talk) 20:30, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikiproject

Someone removed the wikiproject Lebanon tag and you do not have that right. Omar Sharif was of Lebanese origin. Lebanese bebe (talk) 20:20, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Arab cowboy he does have something to do with Lebanon, his origin is Lebanese. His name is Shalhoub by origin. Tony Shalhoub is also another famous Lebanese actor. Stop omitting facts please. Lebanese bebe (talk) 20:22, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Please see this interview with Omar Sharif: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYD0LTKaFc4&feature=related. At Time 11:30, he says, "I've never changed my passport. My passport was always Egyptian." Period! --Arab Cowboy (talk) 17:05, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

That does not change the fact this origin is Lebanese even your Cairo Times has listed that fact.

Cairo Times -- 05 March 1998 Omar Sherif was born Michel Dimitri Shalhoub in 1931 to a wealthy Alexandrian family of Christian Lebanese origin. He was discovered in Egypt by director Yousef Chahine in 1953, then nine years later discovered again by David Lean. His introduction to the Western audiences that were to adore him was a scene in Lawrence of Arabia when he appears out of the shimmering desert horizon galloping on a camel. How do you follow that? He did, once, with Dr Zhivago. After that his reputationas a drinker, gambler and womanizer loomed larger than his acting career. His presence in public consciousness well outlasted his shelf-life on screen. He gradually drifted back to Egypt, starting in the late seventies. After heart surgery in 1993, he decided to quit Paris. But still his life has the air of someone of no fixed abode.

http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/197101/omar.as.in.bradley.htm As well as the sources I listed above, NY times and so on. Even if his passport was always Egyptian...Egypt was not officially declared a Republic until 1954.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lebanese bebe (talk • contribs) 20:02, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

conversion to Islam

Any idiot can realize Sharif converted to islam for marriage not spirtual reasons so ppl can dream all they like but the fact in Egypt its illegal for a non muslim man to marry a muslim woman defintely played a part and reverting to even your previous religion is illegal. Sharif converted to Islam to marry his wife this shud be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.198.189 (talk) 23:59, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

If any "idiot" can realize it, why bother state it? You cannot state people's intentions for them; only published and sourced information is allowed on Wikipedia. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 15:08, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

The thing is "Arab Cowboy" regardless what he may state in public the reality is his conversion to islam WAS motivated on him marrying his wife and the FACT in Egypt the law states a non muslim man marrying a muslim woman is Illegal this is not just Sharia court of Court but the EGYPTIAN law that states this. There is no way that (as far Egyptian law is concerned) of him keeping his religion and being married to a muslim would of been possible. There is no argument about this. If me providing source that Egypt bans inter-faith marriage of muslim woman is needed than I will but if that gets deleted than i know editing of this article is not based on sourced information but other people's opinion trying to distort the reality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.183.134.210 (talk) 01:52, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

this is all very well, but the order in which things are presented in the article is way out of whack, and confusing. in the first sentence he is described as born to christian parents. then the first mention of islam is regarding islam vs. atheism.a mention of his conversion is definitely in order between these, doncha think?Toyokuni3 (talk) 16:41, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Video links

I have not removed the video link of Omar Sharif's interview with Riz Khan, since it's in English and is verifiable. However, i have removed the Arabic youtube link once again, due to the reason that it cannot be used to verify the statement purporting Omar Sharif's devout religiosity. While Arabic youtube links are allowed, it must be verifiable by the novice reader. As per WP:VERIFY, the purpose of having a link is to verify a statement or claim which could be disputed. This goes for Arabic and non Arabic speakers alike, with no exceptions. At least if it had English subtitles, i could have verified the statement for myself. Since this is not possible, i have removed it and in it's place, i have re-inserted the El Mundo article link with his quote admitting his atheism both in Spanish and in English. Please note that i have not used the netfirms blog link, but the original El Mundo link. If anyone doubts the veracity of the Spanish quote, they can always have it translated and checked through Google translate. However, if you want to re-insert the statement, then you will have to provide a credible source through which his supposed Muslim faith can be verified. It doesn't matter whether it's in Arabic or any other language, but it should not be an Arabic video link without English subtitles. Moreover, since he professed his atheism in 2002, you must find a source in which he admits to being Muslim after that. Joyson Noel (talk) 18:17, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Joyson, similar to the Spanish source to which you have provided your own translation to English, I have also provided an Arabic source, the video link, to which I have provided my own translation. As you requested those video links are more recent (both in 2007) than that El-Mundo interview of 2002. In the 2007 video link at Time 13:30, Omar states that his grand son Oman is not Jewish at all, but in fact is Mulim like his father. So, the claim that Omar's only son Tariq is atheist is clearly false. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 05:30, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Not acceptable. The source must be verifiable by any novice reader. Please find an alternate English link. If Omar Sharif is still a Muslim, then that should not be hard to find. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me} 05:46, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Arabic sources are acceptable so long as the original is quoted and a translation provided. See WP:NONENG. If an English source is not available then an Arabic source may be used. This source may not be used for other reasons, but it being in Arabic is not one of them. nableezy - 05:49, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, but i assume that this is for textual inks, not video links. It's simply not verifiable. OK. So, here's the deal. Let's get an Arab administrator to verify the link. If he confirms that the source states that Sharif is a Muslim, then i'll respect that. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me} 05:53, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Joyson, which part of the English interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYD0LTKaFc4&feature=related video link at Time 13:30 do you not understand? Also the Arabic interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRHXX6Aa8cI&feature=related at Time 9:15 is acceptable. In it he states that Islam is the religion that he has accepted and continues to love and that he has performed Umrah. Likewise, I do not understand the original Spanish interview that you provided and I have to rely on your translation. You do not need an admin to verify the translation. In the end, the videolinks of 2007 outdate your Spanish source of 2002. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 05:54, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

here is a source with Sharif saying that he has "a Jewish grandchild and a Muslim grandchild." But why on earth we are we even saying what religion his son is, or is not as the case may be? nableezy - 05:57, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Nableezy: this printed source is the kind of information that Omar Sharif himself refuted in his interview with Al-Jazeera: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYD0LTKaFc4&feature=related video link at Time 13:30. It's more reliable to hear it from Sharif himself than from a journalist, don't you agree? --Arab Cowboy (talk) 06:01, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

I have sent a request to an Arab User:Tiamut to verify the link for me here in the talk page. If she confirms what you say, then you are free to re-insert your statement and i will not dispute this. It's just a matter of time. Until then, let the "Atheism" statement remain. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me} 06:10, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Why do you trust your own translation of Spanish and not my translation of Arabic? Why are you ignoring the English interview? I will give your solution a chance to take its course for another 24 hours only. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 06:14, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

I request a bit more time. Give her three days. She might not be a regular user. This article is not going anywhere. The English interview does not give any clue as his religious beliefs or Tarek's. His grandson's religious beliefs are another matter. My uncle is an Atheist as well, yet he has given his children a traditional Catholic upbringing. It's common for Atheists to do that. Just because his grandchildren are Muslims does not mean that he is one. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me} 06:17, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

We can give her more time while the atheism statement is out. It will be out anyway cause my translation is correct. You are wrong, the English interview does state that Omar (the grandson) is Muslim as his father (Tariq). Listen carefully. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 06:23, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

No, it does not. I viewed it last month. The Atheism statement was there before you replaced it with the disputed one. It's the original one. Your translation might be correct, but i can't verify that. So, let's wait. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me} 06:29, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

How can you say that it does in not when the statement is there, in plain English? There will be no tolerance for this kind of logic. As for the translation of the other video link, Omar stated: "I have faith in God and in the religion to which I converted and that I have loved since 1954 when I became a Muslim, and I performed Umrah 3 or 4 years ago". Then the interviewer comments, "So, you are firm in your belief...." Period. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 06:23, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Please tell me in which part of the English interview clip is that statement. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me} 06:41, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Joyson, as I stated numerous times, the statement in the English interview is at Time 13:30 of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYD0LTKaFc4&feature=related. --Arab Cowboy (talk) 06:48, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

There are a ton of sources that say his son married was married to both a Jew and a Muslim and that Sharif has both a Jewish and Muslim grandchild [such as this and this (he also calls himself a Muslim in this article), and here is one that says his son married a Catholic, a Muslim and a Jew. But that does not matter, we dont need to include his sons religion or his grandchildrens religions in the article. The Spanish source does indeed say what is translated here, but there are more recent sources that describe him as a "non-practicing Muslim" and a convert to Islam without any mention of becoming an atheist, such as this and this. I am not decided on how I feel this should be treated but the first part of it is removing the religion of his son. It does not make one bit of difference to this article. I would like to see some more sources on him being an atheist as opposed to a non-practicing Muslim. nableezy - 06:43, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

That's right! In the source you provided, he does refer to himself as a Muslim. In that case, the best solution would be to mention both claims of his. But before we decide to take any action, let's wait for her response. If the source is true, then feel free to remove that statement. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me} 06:52, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay guys, unfortnately the speakers on my computer are on the fritz and I cannot see the video Joyson Noel wants verification of. If Nableezy could check it out, that would be good His Arabic is very good and he has provided a lot of translations before too. I would suggest checking book sources as well. I'm going to look around and see what I can find. I would tend to agree with Nableezy though, that information about the religious beliefs of his children are not relevant here. Remember this is a WP:BLP, and we should be sticking to Wiki policies of WP:NPOV, WP:V very strictly here. I'll be beack when I have more to add to the discussion. Tiamut^talk 16:46, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Tiamut, thanks for trying. The religion of his children and grandchildren is not in question here, it is his own religion that Joyson needs verification of. I have provided a translation of the wording of the statement in the video link. At Time 9:15 of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRHXX6Aa8cI&feature=related, Omar stated: "I have faith in God and in the religion to which I converted and that I have loved since 1954 when I became a Muslim, and I performed Umrah 3 or 4 years ago". Then the interviewer comments, "So, you are firm in your belief...." This is all we need verification of, not any more sources. If Nableezy can provide that, it will be fine too. Thanks in advance, --Arab Cowboy (talk) 22:07, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Omar Sharifs lebanese background

Since there are some people who have a habit of removing Omar sharifs lebanese background, I am here posting some sources showing that he has a lebanese background:

New York Times: "Born into a wealthy Lebanese-Egyptian family" [1]

Turner Classic Movies: "his mixed Lebanese and Syrian bloodlines." [2]

Published book: Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel, and the War on Terror: "Born in Egypt to a prominent Lebanese/Syrian family." [3]

Published book: Naming names: stories of pseudonyms and name changes with a who's who‎: "The Egyptian-born film star, of Syrian-Lebanese descent" [4]

Published book: The Movie stars story: "Though born in Egypt, Omar Sharif is actually of Lebanese origin" [5]

Published book: Encyclopedia of the modern Middle East: "The son of a wealthy merchant of Lebanese descent, Sharif was born Michel Chalhoub" [6]

Published book: Current biography yearbook, Volume 31: "Of Syrian-Lebanese descent, Omar Sharif was bom Michael Shalhoub" [7]

Published book: New Book of People (1986. Photographs, Capsule Biographies and Vital Statistics of Over 500 Celebrities): "Omar Sharif Michael Shalhoub Syrian-Lebanese by descent" [8]

Published book: Aramco world magazine: "He's really Michel Shalhoub, an Alexandria-born, Lebanese-Syrian" [9]

Published book: The Illustrated who's who of the cinema: "Of Lebanese and Syrian descent. Sharif studied mathematics and physics" [10]

Published book: The great movie stars: the international years "He was born in Alexandria in 1932 of Lebanese and Syrian stock" [11]

Published book: Streisand: Her Life: "someone suggested Omar Sharif, an Egyptian of Lebanese descent" [12]

Published book: Alexanders: Webster's Quotations, Facts and Phrases‎: "Omar El-Sharif, is an Egyptian-born actor (of Lebanese origins" [13]

Published book: Lawrence of Arabia: "real name Michael Shaloub - had been born into a wealthy Lebanese Christian family" [14]

Published book: Marco Polo and the Encounter of East and West: "and an Egyptian of Lebanese/Syrian descent, Omar Sharif" [15]

Published book: Dream makers on the Nile: a portrait of Egyptian cinema: "Omar al-Sharif was born Michel Dimitri Shalhoub, to an Alexandrian family of Lebanese descent." [16]

Published book: Journal of Mediterranean studies: "Omar Sharif, born Michael Shalboub, son of a wealthy Alexandrine merchant of Lebanese descent" [17]

--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:43, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Put hose refs in the article, then no one should be able to just remove them without consequences. FunkMonk (talk) 12:49, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

last revert

Nefer Tweety, please explain why you reverted each of the changes. You changed

Omar Sharif (Arabic: عمر الشريف; April 10, 1932) is an Egyptian actor, born Michel Demitri Shalhoub (Arabic: ميشيل ديمتري شلهوب) to an Egyptian-Lebanese family in Alexandria, Egypt. Sharif has starred in many Hollywood films, most famously in Doctor Zhivago, Funny Girl and Lawrence of Arabia. He has been nominated for an Academy Award and has won three Golden Globe Awards.

to

Omar Sharif (born Michael Demitri Shalhoub; Arabic: ??? ??????; April 10, 1932) is an Egyptian actor who has starred in many Hollywood films. He is most famous for his roles in Doctor Zhivago, Funny Girl and Lawrence of Arabia. Sharif has been nominated for an Academy Award and has won a Golden Globe.

TO begin with, you messed up the Arabic script. Next you changed the number of Golden Globes from 3 to 1 when he has won 3. Next you screwed up the formatting of the reference, leaving it in the middle of the sentence. Next, you removed the NY Times reference in favor of an Egyptian government reference. I do not have a problem using an SIS ref, but that ref does not contain any information that the NY Times does not nor does it contradict anything in the NY Times ref. Next, why did you change the sentence structure in the second to last sentence? And finally, why did you remove "Egyptian-Lebanese family" and his place of birth? One thing I thank you for, the birth name should be bolded in the lead, I mistakenly removed that earlier. But the rest of your changes are wither wrong or pointless. For the other section you reverted, you changed:

Sharif was born Michel Demitri Shalhoub in Alexandria, Egypt to Lebanese Catholic parents Claire (née Saada) and Joseph Chalhoub. Sharif recalled spending time in his childhood in his maternal grandparents' home in Tanta, Egypt. He was very attached to his grandmother, Abla Abdallah, who lived for more than 100 years.

to

Omar Sharif was born Michael Shalhoub in Alexandria, Egypt to Catholic parents of Lebanese-Egyptian anscestry. In a 04 September 2009 television program on Nile Cinema, Omar denied published claims that his family had originated in Lebanon, and affirmed that his parents and all his grandparents were born in Egypt. His remembered spending time in his childhood in his maternal grandparents' home in Tanta, Egypt. He was very attached to his grandmother, 'Abla Abdallah, who lived for more than 100 years.

Why did you remove the parents name and source? You also added In a 04 September 2009 television program on Nile Cinema, Omar denied published claims that his family had originated in Lebanon, and affirmed that his parents and all his grandparents were born in Egypt. Could you tell me where I can see this interview? Also, the name does not need to be bolded again after the lead. nableezy - 19:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Comment: I would like to point out that Nefer Tweety changed it to "Egyptian Catholic parents of Lebanese-Syrian anscestry." this is not what the sources are saying, no sources are saying that his parents were "Egyptian catholic of any ancestry" and considering that both Nefer Tweety and AC has many times brought up what admin Sancho said in the past: [18] "SD, avoid original research. Even the leap from "Sharif's parents were Lebanese", to "Sharif is of Lebanese descent" is going too far in an article about a living person."

So why did Nefer Tweety go against this sentence from Sancho? When Nefer Tweety many times all over wikipedia has mentioned this sentence? The "leap" is to far, this is original research.

Considering the "In a 04 September 2009 television program on Nile Cinema" , that sentence was added by Arab Cowboy in this edit: [19], its non viewable, there are many viewable reliable sources that go against this sentence. This one for example specifically says that his parents came from Zahle [20] --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:11, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Omar Sharif's parents are referred to as Egyptian both in his book "The Eternal Male", and by him personally on television. It was shown in Egypt and across the world on Live satellite television last Ramadan. The Egyptian SIS website refers to Omar Sharif as a "Prominent Egyptian". I have accepted other ancestry in "Personal Life" as a temporary compromise, but not in the 'Lead". Nefer Tweety (talk) 13:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

So both you and Arab Cowboy saw that TV show? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 14:39, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

SIS calling him a "prominent Egyptian" in no way contradicts the numerous sources that say he is of Lebanese ancestry. And you did not address the rest of the issues. nableezy - 14:43, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

I can only speak for myself. of course I have! Nefer Tweety (talk) 13:33, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Where can I see this? nableezy - 14:38, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

On Nile Cinema. Watch for the replays. Nefer Tweety (talk) 15:01, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

That will not do, you need to tell me where I can verify this information. See WP:V. nableezy - 15:05, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

References

continued removal of Lebanese

There are multiple high-quality sources that explicitly say that Omar Shariff is of Lebanese ancestry. There is not a single verifiable, high-quality source that disputes this. Unless you can provide sources that can actually be verified, stop removing the information and the sources. nableezy - 01:01, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

The following are a list of sources documenting that Sharif has Lebanese parents:

• "Omar Sharif in Saudi Arabia to perform Omra piligrimage". Deutsche Presse-Agentur. January 23, 1995. Sharif, who comes from a Lebanese-Syrian parentage, converted to Islam in 1955 when he married Egyptian actress Faten Hamama.
• "Omar Sharif is 70 today". Birmingham Post. October 10, 2002. Egyptian actor Omar Sharif, 70: Born into a wealthy Lebanese-Egyptian family
• "Omar Sharif in bid to promote South African tourism". Agence France Presse. February 06, 1995. The actor, who is Egyptian-Lebanese descent {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
• "AP Interview: Egyptian-born movie legend credits grandsons' teasing for career rebound". Associated Press. born as Michel Shalhoub to affluent Christian Lebanese-Syrian parents and later converted to Islam. {{cite news}}: Text "November 15, 2005" ignored (help)
• "Omar Sharif's back". The Toronto Star. September 9, 2003. He was born Michael Shalhoub in Alexandria, Egypt, on April 10, 1932, the son of a wealthy Lebanese-Egyptian family.
• "Star Watch". Associated Press. May 19, 1995. Of Lebanese parentage, he was born Michael Shalhoub in Alexandria and attended college in Cairo.
• "AP Interview: Egyptian-born movie legend wants to send message in his new movies". Associated Press. October 28, 2005. born in Alexandria, Egypt as Michel Shalhoub to affluent Christian Lebanese-Syrian parents and later converted to Islam.

And there are a hundred more, I'm just tired of doing this. Please do not continue to remove this information. nableezy - 01:17, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, this new interview does state: "Sharif further maintained he was Egyptian, whereas misconceptions suggested that he was of Lebanese origin.". All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 02:57, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for that, added. nableezy - 16:27, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, since Sharif isn't a published scientist, this isn't a reliable source... ;-) -- megA (talk) 18:53, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Family: Christian? Catholic? Which one?

Does anybody know? Roman catholic (statistically unlikely), Coptic catholic (more likely), Coptic Orthodox (predominant Christian denomination in Egypt (90%)), Greek, Armenian, Syriac, Maronite catholic/orthodox/other Churches... -- megA (talk) 11:02, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Clear up of that little Omar Sharif statement

He said he was not of Lebanese descent because his father(who originated from Zahle which is a city in present day Lebanon) had immigrated to Egypt and left what wasn't to be Lebanon till a decade later(previously there was neither Syria nor Lebanon, but only "Bilad el Sham"), meaning Lebanon was not yet formed at the time he immigrated. So for the sake of his present countrymen of Egypt who would dislike him if he even hinted at being anything other that 100% Egyptian, he used that little fact to declare he is an Egyptian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Propaganda328 (talk • contribs) 18:14, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I dont really care. We include both that he is reported to be of Lebanese decent and that he has said he is only Egyptian. See WP:TRUTH for why you should stop removing that information. nableezy - 19:01, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

The Truth is his parents are originated from a land which was NOT Egypt. You continue to ignore that on the basis of a few remarks he made which you drew your own conclusions from, and you write those conclusions and opinions here without even stating who then were his Egyptian born parents(i.e. there Egyptian names, the Egyptian city/town they were born in), and without even taking notice to the tons of evidence and references provided here that completely contradict your ridiculous theory. I really don't care to know the reasons why you have such a problem with the fact that he's not of Egyptian origin, all I care about is placing the right facts here for people to see.--Propaganda328 (talk) 20:44, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You apparently did not read WP:TRUTH or you would not be bombastically telling me what the truth is. And I dont have a problem with where he is from, I dont even really like Omar Sharif. We include the fact that he is widely reported to be of Lebanese origin, we also include the fact that he has said he is Egyptian. Verifiability, not truth is what matters here. I am the one that compiled the references for him being reported as being of Lebanese origin, but when a source was presented with Sharif himself denying it I included that as well. That is what we do here, we go with what the sources say. Sharif has said he is Egyptian, full stop. We include that fact. Sources have said he is of Lebanese origin, we include that fact. What else do you want? nableezy - 20:52, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Did you even bother to read your sources? All he said was that 'HE' is Egyptian. Did you see anywhere a statement by him saying "My parents are of Egyptian origin"? Did you check for that little statement that would verify what you wrote in the article "Omar Sharif was born into a wealthy Egyptian Catholic family"? And I'll ask again, if his parents are EGYPTIAN, what EGYPTIAN city/town were they born in(answer that and I'll shut up for good)? I did not change the article to "Omar Sharif is a Lebanese actor", cause he is Egyptian, and that is the truth. But you insist on saying his parents are of Egyptian origin, which is not the truth.--Propaganda328 (talk) 21:06, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Of course I read the source, and I have not "insisted" that his parents are Egyptian, stop being so ludicrously emotional about the biography of a movie actor. I dont care what the "truth" is, I care what the sources say. And you again removed sourced content and inserted poor sources in their place. nableezy - 21:13, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

So then we agree his parents are not Egyptian? Then why make all this fuss with with the "Omar Sharif was born into a wealthy Egyptian Catholic family", and threatening to ban me if I didn't comply with your previous opinion?(cause that was really mean)--Propaganda328 (talk) 21:30, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh, now he's become Syrian... -- megA (talk) 10:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Fuck it... Let him be syrian, I don't care, I won't fix it, cause last time I tried to the fuckers got me blocked from editing.--Propaganda328 (talk) 11:38, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

And who pray tell are those "fuckers"? nableezy - 15:02, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

You in particular--Propaganda328 (talk) 17:41, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

If you did not like being blocked I suggest you remove the last line and your description of other editors as "fuckers". And you were blocked for repeatedly vandalizing the article Michel Aoun. nableezy - 17:49, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Again with the threats I see. And the Michel Aoun article had nothing to do with it. The other guy was vandilizing, and if you checked him out you'd see he was threatened by an admin with a block himself. The difference between you and me is you run towards any admin you can find to help you block people if they don't agree with you or pissed you off, I don't care about blocking anybody.--Propaganda328 (talk) 18:28, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

No threats, simple advice. I did not "report" you anywhere, I informed you of the 3 revert rule after you made 3 quick reverts. But you are indeed pissing me off, not least because you seem to think I care what you think. nableezy - 18:34, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

"Lebanese" has been removed again. What's the problem? FunkMonk (talk) 16:33, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Sherif?

For some reason the first sentence says his name is Sherif. If only I could fix this! Also, "Syrian" isn't capitalized.--Teiladnam (talk) 05:35, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks! -kotra (talk) 20:45, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

By the way, there is a problem with full protection if legitimate fixes like this take weeks to be done (and I only became aware of it because Teiladnam approached me directly). If there are no admins monitoring this page, then perhaps we should consider bumping it down to semi-protection. The edit warring that led to full protection appears to have been a short-term dispute that dissipated a few weeks ago anyway. -kotra (talk) 20:55, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

His House In Lanzarote

Can we mention somewhere the house in Lanzarote he owned which was built by Cesar Manrique. Rumours are he lost it in a game of bridge. Site is at http://www.lag-o-mar.com - the site is on a UNESCO Heritage Site so may be relevant to both the Omar article, Lanzarote article, and Cesar Manrique article The ownership of the house is well known http://www.lanzarote.com/lacuevalagomar/index-en.html 82.39.157.193 (talk) 22:32, 14 December 2010 (UTC)lanzarotemaps

Affair with Barbra Streisand?

A section in Omar Sharif says that his Egyptian citizenship was almost revoked when his affair with Barbra Streisand was made public. Barbra Streisand doesn't mention anything about it, and Funny Girl states that it was the inclusion of a love scene between an Egyptian and a (pro-Israel) Jewish woman that caused the uproar. I can't find an outside source that clears it up fully. I'm hoping someone else who knows more/where to look can answer: a) are there sources that pass WP:BLP muster stating the affair happened, and b) was it their relationship (or rumors of) that started the trouble with the Egyptian government, or was it his appearance with Streisand in the movie? If anyone can clear it up I'd be happy to reword and edit whichever is wrong. I just don't want to mess around with a living person's WP page without cause, and it seems like there's no consensus just yet. Viralhyena (talk) 20:15, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Why should this upset them ? Muslim men are encouraged to seduce, marry, and convert non-Muslim women, as long as they are not idolaters. It is only unacceptable to them, if it is the other way around. Eregli bob (talk) 07:52, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Religious and political views

I wonder whether the sections on Sharif's personal views on religion and politics are indeed relevant to the article and whether it would be better to have it removed, considering the fact that he is someone who is known almost exclusively for his acting achievements. 196.210.143.131 (talk) 00:27, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I think they're relevant. Most articles on celebrities feature sections about his/her political and religious views. Charles Essie (talk) 15:47, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Why Religion?

Why is his religion listed? Do we list it for all celebrities with an entry here on Wiki? Or is there another, less encyclopedic, reason why it was decided to list his religion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.182.220 (talk) 21:30, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Health Problems

This paragraph refers to Sharif meeting 'Mounir in the hospital, but does not give "Mounier's" first name.

Does anyone know who "Mounir" was or is? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lzako (talk • contribs) 17:05, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

I believe the reference is to Egyptian lawyer Nabil Mounir Habib, who was Naguib Mahfouz's lawyer. However I do not know the significance of his association with Sharif and, therefore, do not know why it is included in the article. I suppose one of us (or someone else) could add his full name (and spell it Mounir and not Mounier, which is a misspelling), but even then, the reference to him doesn't really make sense. Vandemark (talk) 14:45, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

I reviewed previous versions of that section, and back in July 2012 someone had attempted to "remove repetitive statements." In doing so, the person had removed Mounir's full name and his relationship to Sharif. I have just fixed that problem. Vandemark (talk) 18:24, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Works

Section Omar Sharif#Bibliography (5 listings) is now complete with respect to LCCat records and WorldCat top 20 records of works evidently in print, rather than audio or video recordings.

One of 16 LC Catalogue records features an audio recording, Tales from the Desert (Caedmon, 1978), selections from English-language Arabian Nights. [21]

--P64 (talk) 16:11, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I checked VIAF, WorldCat and the Library of Congress catalogue for Tannah Hirsch (sometimes mis-spelled Hirsh), the CEO of Goren International since 1978 and the nominal co-author with Sharif of the syndicated column (sometimes "Goren On Bridge"; I don't know timespans for the column title or the co-authorship). I didn't find Hirsch/Hirsh adequately identified as an author (see Authority control) and found few library records by direct search at WorldCat. [P.S. 4 works 1966 to 1971, none with Goren or Goren/Sharif as co-creators.]

I suppose that Goren works other than the newspaper bridge column continue to be published as by Goren alone --either reprints or revised/updated editions with Tannah Hirsch silent. Possibly Hirsch (or Hirsch and Sharif) has been author of works published since the 1960s --when Charles Goren retired according to one NYTimes obituary bridge column-- but such publ'ns are not in library catalogues, presumably not in library collections.

--P64 (talk) 00:16, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Related to Tony?

Is Omar Sharif related to Tony Shalhoub (Monk)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.213.224.59 (talk) 18:38, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Peter O'Toole

Sharif became friends with Peter O'Toole during the making of Lawrence of Arabia. They appeared in several other films together and remained close friends.

– Puzzling that such an enduring friendship isn't mentioned in Peter O'Toole. Sca (talk) 17:55, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Filmography

Since the article is up for listing on the front page, I have removed certain items from the filmography which were neither referenced nor linked to an article on the primary source. See these edits. The items can be restored if we have blue links for the primary source or if a secondary source is found. Note, ther are also a few hidden comments about such things as his bridge playing that can be unhidden if a source is found. μηδείς (talk) 17:57, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Many of the works you removed in the filmography were referenced, and I was about to cite the others when I had an edit conflict. Now I can't. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 18:59, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Simply go back to the edit prior to my first deletion from the filmography section, and add the refs to the redlinks which you have, then paste them back in to the current version of the article. Again, do not just restore the redlinked film and tv roles without a reference to a reliable source (not IMDb) or they will be deleted. Se the ITN discussion (linked on your talk page) before you do anything. μηδείς (talk) 19:06, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Opening sentence: Start with common name or birth name?

Obviously, the article title should be "Omar Sharif". We got more than one alias, making the opening look crowded or awkward. Starting with birth name was attempted, but it was reverted. I looked at MOS:BIO and MOS:LEAD. All methods are encouraged, but most common method is starting with common name. --George Ho (talk) 22:52, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

The current order looks fine. But I don't think his film credit aliases (especially with those three separate sources) need to appear in the very first sentence. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:56, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I eliminated aliases from the lede, leaving only the common and birth names. --George Ho (talk) 23:09, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I think that's a massive improvement. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:13, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Shocking kiss

In 1954 acclaimed actress Faten Hamama accepted young Sharif as her co-star in the film Struggle in the Valley and shockingly acted a scene involving a kiss with him, a first in her career.

My first instinct is to edit this down to "In 1954 Sharif starred opposite Faten Hamama in Struggle in the Valley", but I thought I's check here first. Is there a reason the kiss was notable? 95.44.50.222 (talk) 08:09, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

As the two subsequently fell in love and married, I think it's appropriate to leave it in. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:33, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

That does not address notability. The whole sentence needs editing. How "acclaimed" was she? Was she "acclaimed" worldwide or only in Egypt? What was involved in "accepting" him – could a man not perform in a film in Egypt without first being "accepted" by the female lead? But above all, why was it "shocking" to act a scene involving a kiss? Was it shocking for anybody to kiss anybody in any film in 1954, or was it only shocking in the Arab world in 1954, or would it still be shocking in the Arab world today? Or is the whole thing only needless embellishment? If it's the last – and it looks like it is – it should go. If you say it in simple English, something like "In 1954 Sharif starred opposite Faten Hamama in Struggle in the Valley, in which they shared a kiss", you can see how trivial it looks. 95.44.50.222 (talk) 12:22, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Here is a piece from Al Akhbar (Lebanon) at the time she died in January. It says that she had previously refused to kiss on screen, which implies that she had frequently been asked to, so it couldn't have been that shocking. This piece makes the fact that it was her first kiss verifiable, and mildly notable, so it could be mentioned, but without the "shockingly". 95.44.50.222 (talk) 12:38, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

It suspect it may have shocked some Egyptian audiences in 1954. But my knowledge of Arabic is rather limited, to say the least, so searching for a source is not easy. Without some stronger English language source, I think the word "shocking" should go. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's "trivial". It obviously wasn't trivial to Hamama. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:01, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

You made a good observation by spotting that the 'kiss' might be notable. Yes indeed it is , considering conservative Egypt in '50s and the implications of doing such a thing that may invite wrath upon the individual. Hence it finds mention even in Faten Hamama article. Devopam (talk) 03:16, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

My first kiss wasn't trivial to me, but that doesn't mean it belongs in an encyclopedia article. Anyway, I've said that mention of the kiss is reasonable, so there's no point in splitting hairs. 95.44.50.222 (talk) 22:58, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Sorry if you didn't get to share yours with the cinema-going Egyptian public. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:12, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

No reliable sources.

Hello, Please keep in mind that adding information without a reliable source is against the policy of Wikipedia. Any information added without reliable sources will be deleted. --Tania Jarallah (talk) 22:04, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the concern is here. The cited passage is not terribly contentious, and though the Irish Times article does exclude the parents' names and religious background, that can be turned up in reliable sources with a very quick Google search. Tony Fox (arf!) 22:16, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

The other sources in the previous sentences cover all of the material that was removed. I see no treason to remove this. Meters (talk) 22:18, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Forgot to say that I restored it again. Meters (talk) 22:23, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

As noted elsewhere, here are a couple of sources to firm this up. The Dictionary of African Biography, from the Oxford Press, certainly seems very appropriate and states that he was born to parents of Lebanese Catholic origin. Al Jazeera also affirms the Melkite link. Tony Fox (arf!) 22:31, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I was looking for a ref for that bit. Meters (talk) 22:37, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

I'll add the aljazeera bio rather than the google books preview for ease of online verification. Meters (talk) 22:43, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

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