Talk:Okinawa diet

Revision of "Indigenous islanders' diet"

I recently revised the section on diet with several goals: (1) resolve ambiguity, (2) ensure that the section appropriately reflects credible source materials and (3) correct misinformation regarding pork consumption.

As previously noted, there was discrepancy between the named sweet potato varieties. Okinawan cuisine is centered around Okinawa sweet potato, not Satsuma sweet potato. This has now been corrected.

A passage existed regarding Okinawa's relatively high pork consumption as compared with mainland Japan, but Willcox et al. (2007) provide evidence that directly contradicts this claim: on average, Okinawans ate 3 grams of pork a day while Japanese as a whole at 11 grams of pork a day. This passage has been removed. OkinawaDiet1 (talk) 21:27, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

The two changes you describe should be sourced to 2007 Willcox or a better source, but the overall dietary practice itself is now some 20 years out-of-date and is history because the diet appears not to be as prevalent and new rigorous studies on it don't exist.

Specific changes such as the type of sweet potato or amount of pork consumed are in the history of a 16 year old source, so need specific sourcing (the 2007 Willcox study is not available without subscription). Users may assume the "Okinawa diet" is actually a 2023 dietary regime; we need to be clear about what was a dietary pattern decades ago vs. what is assumed to be a current dietary practice of interest to some. Zefr (talk) 22:31, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

The article on the Okinawa diet largely addresses traditional Okinawan eating patterns—as opposed to contemporary eating patterns of Okinawa residents—even in its pre-23 March 2023 version. Consider the first sentence in the "Indigenous islanders’ diet" section: "The traditional diet of the islanders contains 30% green and yellow vegetables." Although this claim is currently unsubstantiated in the article, we find similar figures in the available research on traditional Okinawan eating patterns. For example, Willcox et al. (2014, https://doi.org/10.1016%2Fj.mad.2014.01.002) write: "The traditional diet in Okinawa is anchored by root vegetables (principally sweet potatoes), green and yellow vegetables, soybean-based foods, and medicinal plants." Clearly, this passage already reflects traditional—not contemporary—eating patterns of Okinawa. It’s unlikely that more recent research will contradict these figures, as virtually all literature derives its figures from the 1949 survey conducted by the U.S. government in the Ryukyu Islands.

Further, the section on relative longevity observes that modern Okinawan eating patterns are not associated with relative longevity, and so the dietary description should not reflect modern-day Okinawan eating patterns. It currently reads: "Okinawa had the longest life expectancy in all prefectures of Japan for almost 30 years prior to 2000. The relative life expectancy of Okinawans has since declined, due to many factors including westernization. In fact, in 2000 Okinawa dropped in its ranking for longevity advantage for men to 26th out of 47 within the prefectures of Japan."

The 2007 Willcox study is available without subscription via Penn State University: https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=d60c36654c81af95c02fdf8e428971fab2f392c6

Also note that the 23 March 2023 revisions only cite sources already available in the pre-23 March 2023 version of the article, including Willcox et al. (2007).

I agree that some confusion persists, however; I propose that the abstract be revised to the following: "The Okinawa diet describes the traditional eating habits of the indigenous people of the Ryukyu Islands (belonging to Japan), which is believed to have contributed to their relative longevity." The Okinawa diet as a contemporary weight-loss diet is never mentioned after the first mention in the abstract and leads to potential confusion.

The article on Okinawan cuisine similarly observes the unique benefit of traditional Okinawan eating patterns: "Following World War II, Western Influences changed the food habits of Okinawan cuisine. Milk, meat, egg and grain intake greatly increased…. Cancers of the lung, breast and colon almost doubled. As a result of increasing illness, there is a movement to teach younger generations the benefits of the traditional Okinawan diet". I believe it is more accurate that the article on Okinawa diet reflects that traditional cuisine rather than modern, westernized eating patterns. OkinawaDiet1 (talk) 14:03, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

The kernel of your comment is that this diet is a snapshot on dietary practices that existed in the mid-20th century, so is more of a historical view. I agree with that and made this series of edits to state prior descriptions in light that the dietary practice is not under current study. I eliminated the reference to this practice as a current dietary plan, which is not only impractical to adopt outside of traditional Okinawans, but - according to present medical literature - is a low WP:WEIGHT topic. Zefr (talk) 17:51, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Your revisions certainly address potential confusion. Good job.

I do spot some inconsistencies yet, which I think leaves room for improvement.

The paragraph on Okinawan cuisine (paragraph 2 in the section on indigenous islanders’ diet) lists soy and other legumes after "relatively small amounts of rice compared to mainland Japan". This order is misleading in two ways: (1) Okinawans ate more legumes than the Japanese (71g vs. 55g) and (2) fish (15g) and meat (3g) constituted a significantly smaller nutrient source than legumes (71g). I believe the list should reflect the caloric contribution of each food in descending order: sweet potato (69%), rice (12%), other grains (7%), legumes including soy (6%), green and yellow vegetables (3%), refined oils (2%), fish (1%) and lastly seaweed, meat (mostly pork), refined sugars, potato, egg, nuts and seeds, dairy and fruit (all <1%). Alternatively, the list could reflect the mass contribution in descending order: sweet potato (849g), rice (154g), green and yellow vegetables (114g), legumes including soy (71g), other grains (38g), fish (15g), refined sugars (3g), refined oils (3g), meat (mostly pork) (3g), potato (2g), seaweed (1g), egg (1g), nuts and seeds (<1g), dairy (<1g) and fruit (<1g).

The paragraph on pork consumption (paragraph 3 in the section on indigenous islanders’ diet) refers to 1979 figures, which reflects at least two decades of westernization. In contrast, the 1949 figures indicate that Okinawans ate three grams total of meat—including pork and poultry—per day, which is significantly less than the eleven-gram average of Japan as a whole in 1950 (Willcox et al. 2007, page 443). Scientific consensus is that changes lifestyle factors such as food don’t necessarily cause immediate changes in health outcomes. Rather, Okinawa’s continued relative longevity until the 1990s may be explained as residual effects of that pre-1960s Okinawan culture. OkinawaDiet1 (talk) 12:24, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Additional edits here to incorporate your recommendations for review.

Your comment - "Okinawa’s continued relative longevity until the 1990s may be explained as residual effects of that pre-1960s Okinawan culture" - seems inconsistent with this analysis which attributes the relative longevity of 20th century Okinawans only to the pre-WWII period. Comments and source? Zefr (talk) 17:00, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Merge

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To not merge, given that diet and cuisine are different topics. Klbrain (talk) 19:07, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

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Okinawan cuisine is mostly unsourced. I believe the article should be merged to this one. There is no point in having both articles as the content is basically the same. Psychologist Guy (talk) 14:07, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

I support this. The article content is heavily overlapping. Chamaemelum (talk) 21:50, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Oppose, on the grounds that topics are different. Diet is about what they consume (for example, is 90% of their diet what we might see as 'Western'), whereas cuisine is about their local food culture. Cuisines are categorized with Category:Japanese cuisine; diets fit within Category:Diets Klbrain (talk) 17:12, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Oppose, at minimum Okinawan cuisine is where it should be merged to if a merge is found necessary, but I agree with Klbrain that these are two different topics. A cuisine is not the same thing as a traditional diet. Valereee (talk) 11:58, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.