Talk:Obviously 5 Believers

5/Five

So, what is it? – Hattrem (talk) 10:27, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

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Publishing info for Marqusee 2005

"Marqusee, Mike (2005). Wicked Messenger: Bob Dylan and the 1960s. Mew York: The New Press. ISBN 978-1-58322-686-5."

Shouldn't the publishing info be: New York: Seven Stories Press? Nurg (talk) 08:04, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Now corrected. Thanks, Nurg. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:05, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Obviously 5 Believers/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ippantekina (talk · contribs) 07:45, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):

   b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a. (reference section):

   b. (citations to reliable sources):

   c. (OR):

   d. (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a. (major aspects):

   b. (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):

   b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/fail:

(Criteria marked are unassessed)

Lead and infobox

• "9–10 March 1966 session" switch to MDY for consistency with American English
• "It has been interpreted as a blues song about loneliness" any reason why blues was left out of |genre= in the infobox?
• "as one of the minor songs" "minor songs" might mean "unmemorable", "insignificant"...?
• "In 2010 the song was included" comma after year

Background and recording

• "early morning hours of the 9–10 March 1966 Nashville session" ditto. Also add a comma after the date per MOS:COMMA
• "Sean Wilentz feels that the song is driven by..." who is Sean Wilentz?
• "and that he didn't want to spend much time on it" → "did not" for a more encyclopedic tone
• "In 2010 it was included" ditto

Composition

• "Philippe Margotin and Jean-Michel Guesdon" who are they? Critics? Biographers of Dylan? etc.
• "The song is similar in melody and structure to Memphis Minnie's "Chauffeur Blues" " might need some attribution
• The caption of the audio file could be moved to the prose. Keep the caption succinct.

Critical reception

• Some quotes can be paraphrased to avoid a quote farm. I.e. "one of Dylan's most assured, commanding vocals", "the best R&B song on the album"

Other

• Refs are reliable and properly formatted
• Images and files are properly licensed

Verdict

•  On hold for seven days. Mostly nitpick-y prose issues but overall a solid article. Ippantekina (talk) 04:11, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

• Many thanks, [[User:Ippantekina]|Ippantekina]]]. I've amended the article to address all of your comments. Let me know if anything else is required. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:06, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

  All should be good now BennyOnTheLoose except one last thing. I prefer the lead not having any inline citations (MOS:LEADCITE), so could you paraphrase the "filler" and "makeweight" comments in the lead and remove the citations? Ippantekina (talk) 02:49, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

  Does "insubstantial" work, Ippantekina? Thanks, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:10, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

  That should work! Passing, well done :) Ippantekina (talk) 02:47, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 01:55, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Bob Dylan complained that he did not want to spend much time recording "Obviously 5 Believers"? Source: Wilentz, Sean (2010). Bob Dylan in America. (loc 2013 in Kindle edition)
  • ALT1: ... that the working title for Bob Dylan's "Obviously 5 Believers" was "Black Dog Blues"? Source: Wilentz, Sean (2010). Bob Dylan in America. (loc 2013 in Kindle edition)
  • ALT2: ... that Bob Dylan did not perform his 1966 song "Obviously 5 Believers" live until 1995? Source: Bob Dylan's official website: Setlists that contain Obviously Five Believers
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/KSMO-TV
  • Comment: Suggestions for ALT hooks welcome.

Improved to Good Article status by BennyOnTheLoose (talk). Self-nominated at 10:51, 15 March 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Obviously 5 Believers; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting: - n

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @BennyOnTheLoose: Good article. Though, the hooks kind of feel a bit bland. The only one that really interests me is Alt2 but i'm not all too confident about it. Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:13, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

How about a version of one of these, Onegreatjoke? (I think there's something in ALT3, but it might need tweaking.)

• ALT3: ... that in 1966 one of the Hawks (later known as the Band) played on "Obviously 5 Believers", which was later the name of a band (later known as the Hawks) who played on Obviously 5 Believers (2021)? Sources: Heylin, Clinton (2021). Heylin, Clinton (2021). The Double Life of Bob Dylan. Vol. 1 1941-1966, A restless, hungry feeling pp. 388–392.; Seaman, Duncan (August 26, 2021); "Stephen Duffy and David Twist on The Hawks: 'We weren't after world domination'". The Yorkshire Post.
• ALT4: ... that "Obviously 5 Believers" by Bob Dylan inspired the name of a band featuring Duran Duran founding member Stephen Duffy? Sources: Petridis, Alexis (October 15, 2004). "Radio daze". The Guardian.; Seaman, Duncan (August 26, 2021); "Stephen Duffy and David Twist on The Hawks: 'We weren't after world domination'". The Yorkshire Post.

@BennyOnTheLoose: Alt3 could work but I do agree that a rewording is needed. Onegreatjoke (talk) 20:27, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

How about...

• ALT3a ... that "Obviously 5 Believers" (1966) which featured one of the Hawks, later known as the Band, inspired the name of a band, later known as the Hawks, who featured on Obviously 5 Believers (2021)? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

@Onegreatjoke: status report? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 16:12, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Alt 3 is good. Onegreatjoke (talk) 19:35, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

@BennyOnTheLoose: I can't verify in the article that the Hawks were later known as the Band? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 19:15, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

D'oh! I've added to the text, with a reference; let me know if this isn't suitable. Thanks, theleekycauldron. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:59, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

From Heylin (2021), as it's an offline source: "Dylan rejoined the Hawks [in New York]... [for the next set of sessions in Nashville] he co-opted Robertson" (p.392) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:15, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

@BennyOnTheLoose: hmm, but what about the band changing its name to 'the Band'? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 20:56, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

@Theleekycauldron: That's in the Guardian source which I had added: "the Hawks outgrew their leader. They hooked up with Bob Dylan in the mid-60s and by the end of the decade were superstars on their own who had renamed themselves the Band." Sorry this is a bit convoluted; the Heylin quote was intended to confirm that Robertson joined Dylan for the Nashville recordings (as actually the other Hawks didn't). 21:29, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

• Any updates on this? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:26, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Onegreatjoke What do you think? Are any of the hooks above acceptable? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:06, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Trying another ping for Onegreatjoke, since the above one didn't go through. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:44, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

hook still seems fine. Onegreatjoke (talk) 22:22, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@Theleekycauldron: Have your concerns been addressed? Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:13, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Looks fine to me :) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 19:03, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@BennyOnTheLoose: Sorry to rain on the nomination but I feel like ALT3 is TMI. And too many laters. Bruxton (talk) 01:44, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

@BennyOnTheLoose: nobody has come back to say anything about my concern so I will promote and hope I am alone in my concern. Bruxton (talk) 01:53, 24 June 2023 (UTC)