Talk:National Covenant

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 27, 2020	Peer review	Reviewed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on October 12, 2020.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the National Covenant was signed after protests possibly started by Jenny Geddes throwing a stool at the dean of St Giles'?

Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on February 28, 2022, and February 28, 2023.

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This article was created or improved during the "The 20,000 Challenge: UK and Ireland", which started on 20 August 2016 and is still open. You can help!

National Covenant and Covenanters

This article is closely related to the older and longer article Covenanters. I have wikilinked the two articles to each other, but I would suggest linking the articles more clearly by splitting the information about the National Covenant in the Covenanters article into its own section and adding a {{Main|subpage name}} hatnote to the new section as recommended in WP:DETAIL.

Pinging @Robinvp11, Ehdeejay, and CSJJ104: as major contributors to the two articles for comment. TSventon (talk) 02:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've long felt the National Covenant requires its own article, so thank you for doing this.

The Covenanter movement and the 1638 National Covenant are very different issues; I wouldn't support a separate section on it in the Covenanters page, because it is simply part of the background for a movement central to Scottish politics for most of the 17th century.

I do think this article needs expansion, particularly in two areas; (1) the Scottish political context ie why did so many of the nobility support it; (2) the Significance section is too Anglo-centric, and fairly superficial. Yes, it was the opening of the English Civil Wars but it was also a constitutional revolution in Scotland and dominated Scottish politics until 1690. The arguments between Engagers and the Kirk Party were all driven by the Covenant, and led to the Scots fighting two wars to try and restore first Charles, then his son. None of that appears here. Robinvp11 (talk) 12:37, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Robinvp11, my knowledge of Scottish history is limited, so I don't want to make any major edits to the articles (I saw this article because CSJJ104 mentioned it on the help desk). I have updated the hatnote at Covenanters as National Covenant is no longer a redirect. Possibly National Covenant needs a similar hatnote to link the article to Covenanters. TSventon (talk) 13:40, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Robinvp11: Sorry, I've been busy and only just able to get back to this. For the significance section, I can see what you mean that further work is needed, but I'm unclear as to how much of the debate between the Engagers and the Kirk party were the result of the National Covenant, and how much was the result of dissatisfaction with how the English acted after the First Civil War, or put another way, how do we phrase the relationship without giving undue weight to one side? You've also commented that we need page numbers for Goodare, but this is a webbook which does not include page numbers.--CSJJ104 (talk) 13:57, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]