Talk:Mylius Prize

Source of this content?

Rococo1700, WQUlrich, can I ask you where you obtained the content in this article (hardly any of which is in the sources cited)? I ask because is looks as if this is unattributed translation from the corresponding article on it.wp, and, if so, that presents more than one problem. The first is easily fixed – attribution must be provided for content imported here from other Wikipedias, and that is most simply achieved with {{Translated page}}. The more serious question is what to do with the content: you could not have known that the Italian page was created by globally-locked long-term hoax/nuisance editor and sockpuppeteer Alec Smithson, and is full of the usual nonsense we have learned to expect from him. Nothing written by that editor can be taken on trust. It would probably be simplest to erase all content and start again from the sources. Ping Voceditenore – who also has long experience with this editor – for comment. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:19, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

My contribution is a translation from the Italian. I must say, the content seems rather benign to be described as "nonsense"...and seems to bear no relation to his behavior as described on the link you provided. Anyway, I could re-translate from the Spanish article (and I could do that myself, without the help of Google Translate). WQUlrich (talk) 19:37, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

That's what I thought, WQUlrich. I have to say that I really don't understand why anyone would translate unsourced content into this project, but unfortunately it still occasionally happens. You added the paragraph that starts "Later, the Mylius company was acquired by Antonio Bernacchi [sic]" and a picture of Bernocchi (one of Smithson's pet topics) to the page. What source shows his connection to it? It certainly isn't either of those cited in the page (one is from 1856, three years before he was born; the other does not – according to Google – mention "Bernocchi"). Oh, and the Spanish article is even worse than the Italian one, created by the sockpuppet Best53. I still don't know how it's best to proceed here, but am wondering if the rescuable content from this page should, at least for now, be merged into Accademia di Brera. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:03, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Sorry I stumbled into this conspiracy of sockpuppets. You seem to have a special interest in pursuing them. Do what you think is best here. WQUlrich (talk) 19:16, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry too, WQUlrich; until we have better tools to prevent this kind of long-term abuse, good-faith editors are likely to go on finding themselves in situations like this. Please excuse me for my excessively testy tone in my earlier post – I do believe that translating unreferenced content is an absolutely pointless exercise, but should have found a better way of saying so. My interest is not in pursuing this editor, but in limiting the damage he causes. Anyway, I've rewritten the page based on the sources I was able to find; I hope that you and Rococo1700 will now be able to improve it. I'll deal with the attribution, since no-one else has. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:06, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Quite alright. Generally, I don't translate word for word...usually I delete questionable/irrelevant material, add some of my own from other sources etc. WQUlrich (talk) 19:21, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Regarding Mylius prize

Moved from my talk-page

 – Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 08:12, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

My initial contribution was quite brief, I can't exactly match all the information to the two citations, and the references seem jumbled (google books citation for first is used in second). I can fix that. I do not know if I took some information from the Italian wikipedia entry. I try not to. I wanted to start a separate stub. The institutional prizes from the 19th century emerge as a novel way to propel the careers of many painters. It is a less "aristocratic patron-dependent" and more "academic-dependent" form of patronage, as such the mere topic of "prize patronage" merits its own entry. Part of the reason my contribution was brief is that there is little in the way of historiography on the development and maintainence of such grant-prizes. I would prefer to edit the entry. I did find some sources on prize money for the 1880s (Bollettino Ufficiale, Ministerio della Pubblica Istruzione, Volume IX, 1883, page 560-565). I will try to fix my references. I can't vouch for the entries added later to article. Rococo1700 (talk) 05:34, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Page title

Clearly the current title of this page is not the right one (has this name ever been used for it?). So, should it be at Premio Mylius, or is there sufficient usage of Mylius Prize in reliable English-language sources to justify using that title (bearing in mind WP:AT: "Do not, however, use obscure or made-up names")? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:11, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

I disagree with your initial statement. This name has been previously used for it. This includes: 1) an article in The Connosseur in 1925 [1] 2 ) later also a snippet in The history of an art collection: 19th-20th century paintings collected by Eugenio Balzan by Giovanna Ginex, Melinda Mele, Mitchell Feldman from 2006.

Again, this and a few other instances do not constitute an established usage, but while course the Italian is more widely used overall in all languages, but I still would not title it in Italian for the English language Wikipedia entry. I would follow the WP:AT criteria that: For lesser known ... objects or structures with few reliable English sources, follow the translation convention, if any, used for well known objects or structures of the same type ... In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage. If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader. I consider that the present title follows this convention.Rococo1700 (talk) 02:43, 19 April 2018 (UTC)