Talk:Murder of Bianca Devins

Murder of Bianca Devins has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 31, 2019	Proposed deletion	Kept
August 1, 2019	Articles for deletion	Kept
March 4, 2021	Good article nominee	Not listed
April 29, 2021	Good article nominee	Not listed
May 18, 2021	Good article nominee	Listed
Current status: Good article

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delete

this article is terrible lmao — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joey125a (talk • contribs) 06:29, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Joey125a, the decision to delete an article is based on whether the subject is notable, not on the current quality of the article—see Wikipedia:Deletion is not cleanup. – Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 19:22, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

But is this not just a passing news story? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joey125a (talk • contribs) 15:25, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

Bianca Devins.png

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:21, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Noted bias in the article relating to sources

Is it just me or does the article look like it's speaking in journalese? Something about this seems off and it looks as if it's trying to glorify the victim instead of simply explaining how it happened and the aftermath (even though the article did specify the aftermath.

Initial reports focused on depictions of Devins as a social media star; though later details suggested media coverage may have exaggerated the teen's notoriety as follower counts prior to the virality of images of her death indicated a modest following.

The problem with this statement is that she was not a social media star. She did not receive any media coverage prior to the murder.

There was a 4chan post I found that was summarizing her activities on the imageboards and speculating her mental issues and the causes of why she was murdered; an example were to be that she manipulated people by falsly posing as someone of a legal age on Discord servers and then blackmail them for money/narcotics, at the time she was supposedly addicted to narcotics such as heroin according to this post.

File:BiancaDevins4chan.jpg

Usually, bigger and more notable news sites such as BBC and sometimes local news stations such as the one in Utica tend to not understand the situation and if anything, they try to word it up to a certain way where they eventually make it into journalese so everyone can understand it, as we can see from the article's sources

As per WP:Neutrality, I suggest that we use credible sources relating to the incident by getting deeper with the article instead of heavily relying on news tabloid, even if they're known to be credible. Balkanite (talk) 19:43, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article does look like it's speaking in journalese a bit and could use a bit of a re-write. Feel free to make the WP:BOLD edit re-writing it. Some1 (talk) 21:57, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, are you trying to say that you think murder under these circumstances can be in any way understandable? 2600:100F:B132:9013:54F6:1151:1BA5:A90D (talk) 06:42, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bianca was not a manipulator, was not a drug addict, and all of the rest of what you had said has already been disproven. don't bring gossip and tabloids into a discussion about a murdered child please. Oxxiees (talk) 20:16, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Subscribe to PewDiePie posters in Dhaka - Edited.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

is it appopriate to talk about her kinks and fetishes?

should be noted but no news source is talking about how her very wild kinks and fetishes she had due to her mental illness. this is pretty much a fact as when she had her tellonym in her bio, it was represented as her enjoying rape and being drugged https://archive-media-0.nyafuu.org/wsr/image/1563/35/1563355034725.jpg

sanriocore liberal e girls dont respond to this pls

122.58.20.241 (talk) 07:28, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@122.58.20.241: Wikipedia doesn't operate on an appropriate or inapporiate basis, however this is not relevant to the article. Her (brief) biography is to give an understanding of who she was, her childhood and the events that lead to the incident discussed. Also, none of these are reliable sources, what Wikipedia uses. Sanriocore Liberal E-Girl (talk) 15:10, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

the tellonym one is atleast trustworthy becuz she had that in her bio before the whole thing happened 122.58.20.241 (talk) 09:10, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Social media is generally unreliable. In this case, is is a prominent source of misinformation. If independent WP:RELIABLE sources don't note the alleged social media profile as reliable or relevant, Wikipedia can't use it. • Gene93k (talk) 14:25, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

why would her kinks and fetushes have anything to do with her murder? last time I checked being into bdsm doesn't mean you think being killed is kinky 2600:100F:B132:9013:54F6:1151:1BA5:A90D (talk) 06:45, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"sanriocore liberal e girls dont respond to this pls" so you only want replies that support your view without challenging your outlook of the situation? by the way, if you think her bio on tellonym was anything other than a joke you are a fool Oxxiees (talk) 19:17, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Change or create separate article about Bianca Devins

There was and still is much speculation regarding the victim, Bianca Devins. Considering she had some online following before her death, I believe it would be more appropriate to include either a separate article about Bianca and the article about her murder respectively, or change this article to a personal article about Bianca Devins. CanadianOntarian (talk) 04:22, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @CanadianOntarian: Devins is only notable--by Wikipedia's parameters--because she was murdered. Her online following was greatly exaggerated.^[1] Devins' biography--in my opinion--is sufficient at presenting the relevant information and is comparable to an article on her, which would still have to adhear to summary style.DMT biscuit (talk) 12:46, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Cooper, Kelly-Leigh (July 20, 2019). "Bianca Devins: The teenager whose murder was exploited for clicks". BBC News. Archived from the original on November 18, 2020. Retrieved October 19, 2020.

Should this be tagged as a BLP?

It's, well...not one. BLP does have wiggle room, but it's heading towards the end of the timeframe that applies to. Is the BLP tag instead focused on Clark? Vaticidalprophet (talk) 00:01, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Vaticidalprophet: I support this decision.DMT biscuit (talk) 22:54, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Vaticidalprophet: I set the BLPO flag (not directly a BLP, but living persons involved) in the project banners. That is a minimal action addressing BLP concerns. • Gene93k (talk) 13:06, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Murder of Bianca Devins/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Some Dude From North Carolina (talk · contribs) 20:49, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I'm going to be reviewing this article. Expect comments by the end of the week. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 20:49, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Some Dude From North Carolina: I think I've adequately resolved your qualms but if there's any more feel free to say. It's all for the the greater good. DMT biscuit (talk) 07:52, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox and lead

"Although police reports say the murder was premeditated" - why does this sentence abruptly stop?

Good question, it was recent edit that slipped by, my bad. Fixed by implementing it into the last sentence.

"attention by news" - doesn't sound right. maybe reword to "attention from the news"

Background

"called him as obsessive" → "called him obsessive"
Pokémon should be in italics.
Link Albany, New York.
"she ran away to" - 'away' and 'to' are opposites. maybe "away with"?
4chan.^[5]^[2] → 4chan.^[2]^[5]

Murder

Serial comma after "Devins, Clark".
Is the comma after "her and Alex" necessary?
Remove the comma after "dead-end road".
Add a comma after "one from Clark".
police arrived.^[7]^[6]^[2]^[16] → police arrived.^[2]^[6]^[7]^[16]
family.^[5]^[7]^[2] → family.^[2]^[5]^[7]
The third paragraph should mention that Clark survived his suicide attempt.

Reaction

The #pinkcloudsforbianca image/caption should also be explained in prose.
A mobile user would see the image before the text, so explain what "the images" were.
If you're linking YouTube, also link Twitter and Reddit.
Add a serial comma after "YouTube, Twitter".
Also after "cropped, realigned".
Remove the comma after "in the trial".

Aftermath

Serial comma after "kill someone".
"share results" → "share the results"
Remove the comma after Marianne Buttenschon.
"which would" → "that would"

References

Update source title for #9 ("who killed teen" → "who killed Bianca Devins")
A few sources can still be archived.
That's about it. Excellent sourcing.

Progress

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

13th or 14th?

Some of the cited sources say the murder happened the night of the 13th, some say early on the 14th. The 14th seems more plausible based on the timeline in the latter link. Apocheir (talk) 01:48, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the first source claims the concert was on the 12th, which is wrong; see, for instance, the FaceBook event for the concert. I think the 13th is a mistake or typo; I'll change the article accordingly. -Apocheir (talk) 01:08, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The crime occurred on Sunday, July 14 between approximately 6 and 6:10 AM. Audacity57 (talk) 20:50, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Gabbie Hanna Situation

I feel we should add a section about the current situation happening with Influencer Gabbie Hanna. It has renewed attention to Devins and what happened and is notable enough for at least a paragraph, maybe in the aftermath section? User talk:HumanHistory1 01:08, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lawsuit, nature of the relationship, ugh

As much as it pains me, we need to update this page to match up with what's come out in the lawsuit filing. See utica newspaper article, the text of the lawsuit. A lawsuit is not in itself a reliable source but the OD article is, and some of this is corroborated by other sources cited on this page. In particular, by her own family's admission if nothing else, Clark and Devins had sex before the murder and we should probably make that plain on the page. I can't force myself to make that edit, though. Feels ghoulish. -Apocheir (talk) 21:08, 20 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article does avoid the nature of their relationship, but the exact details of the circumstances of the murder don't need to be mentioned. The article in its present state does a good job of describing what happened, and what part of it was important, mainly the reaction to the murder. Tabloid style play-by-play might fall under WP:TOOMUCH. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 19:37, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Right, and tabloid-style exploitation is not my intention. I've updated the article to make it clear what the lawsuit is actually alleging. Following that edit, maybe there are other changes that need to be made to the article for internal consistency. -Apocheir (talk) 22:17, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Goodnight Punpun

It should be noted, given the murderers like of anime/manga, that his attemped suicide note is identical to the suicide note left by Aiko in the manga Goodnight Punpun. 2600:100F:B132:9013:54F6:1151:1BA5:A90D (talk) 06:39, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why has there never been mention of Clarks brothers (besides James) or sister ever?

Rolling Stone

Per a recent decision regarding Rolling Stone's reporting of material outside of entertainment (see:WP:ROLLINGSTONEPOLITICS), the current abundance of references will have to be removed. It's unfortunate but needs must. I'll likely do it by morning unless someone else wishes to. DMT Biscuit (talk) 20:56, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Don't rush it. Take your time and try to find alternate sources rather than taking a hatchet to the article. I suspect many of the RS citations are actually reporting on someone else's reporting, and you can probably find the original source with a little scrutiny. -Apocheir (talk) 23:01, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's going to be case by case, unfortunately a lot of Rolling's Stone reporting was original. DMT Biscuit (talk) 13:36, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's complete. Feel free to make corrections or hash out any thoughts. DMT Biscuit (talk) 20:45, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sentence tweak to avoid copyvio

I tweaked a sentence in the "Legislation" section to avoid copying from the https://www.wktv.com/news/state/new-york-state-assembly-passes-biancas-law/article_f9374df4-7943-11ec-b37b-bb7e239e0067.html source. I have tried rephrasing this myself, but I'm sure this is not perfect, so please improve it as you see fit. /wiae /tlk 15:04, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Strange claim on aussie news site

"Clark set up a camera in his car so he could film the two having sex and, right after, the moment he cut her throat as she pleaded for her life." Source: https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/mums-horror-as-murdered-daughter-sex-tape-released/news-story/ea47386ab51aaa4ee1ed3fd3d26cba37

Havent read anything about any "sex" before the murder anywhere else. Did anyone else? Thx - Joaquin89uy (talk) 16:23, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Use of first names and nickname

I find it pretty weird that the article refers to Devins' mother Kimberly Devins as simply "Kim" and similarly to her sister as "Olivia". This doesn't sound appropriate for an encyclopedia. I'd either suggest to call them by their first and last name or by their relationship to the victim ("Devins' mother" and "Devins' sister").

It reads as if "Kim" is a last name in sentences like: Kim said that "So many people have been affected by the pictures, scarred for life and suffering from PTSD, unable to erase the image from their mind". Nakonana (talk) 00:02, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the news articles call her Kim, but Kimberley does appear to be her full name; it appears in the lawsuit, for instance. I've made this change.

MOS:SAMESURNAME allows for using given names alone to distinguish people with the same surname. I'm not sure which way would be best here. Apocheir (talk) 01:19, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks. At least it reads a bit more formal that way. Nakonana (talk) 10:19, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

“Devins had dealt with online harassment by incels for at least two years”

No other source besides this random local news site mentions this, and they provide no evidence. This is a baseless claim. At least one reliable source is needed. Lovecel (talk) 20:02, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Post-Standard is not a "random local news site". Please stop deleting cited material from this page. Apocheir (talk) 18:39, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You tell me to talk, when I do you don't respond, and then after you delete all the links I add without even admitting it? Seems very petty frankly, but if Herr Apoqueir so desires I won't touch this page! My apologies. Lovecel (talk) 18:48, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A couple of days, especially with those days being a weekend, is not a long time to wait for a response. There's no urgency here, Devins has been dead for six years. Apocheir (talk) 19:19, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[:12-1] Cooper, Kelly-Leigh (July 20, 2019). "Bianca Devins: The teenager whose murder was exploited for clicks". BBC News. Archived from the original on November 18, 2020. Retrieved October 19, 2020.

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