Talk:Mouride

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Mouride was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
December 3, 2011	Good article nominee	Not listed

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2019 and 12 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: PanupongSittipanya, Veroonikka99.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:32, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sections

I've created sections in this article, for readability and to encourage some expansion. Feer 17:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to break the section Modern Following into some other sections. Why not, "Political and Economic Importance of Mouride Brotherhood" and "Followings within Mouridism"

Prof M Johnson (talk) 03:46, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We would suggest to add a section on the Mouride's Brotherhoods influence in Senegalese Politics. It would be beneficial to expand on how the Mouride Brotherhoods influence was able to withstand any political changes placed by French Colonial powers or by current political parties. By WWII the French colonial powers formed a partnership with the Brotherhoods, which allowed for success in agricultural matters. One instance of the Brotherhood's influence in politics is that after the 1950's political parties needed the support of the Mouride Brotherhood for any type of political or electoral success.

Miriamao (talk) 06:24, 20 September 2011 (UTC) and Marauz (talk) 06:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Miraimao and Marauz

I did a little bit of rearranging in the Mouride entry. I was thinking, what if you altered it so that there was a section on "Mouride Influence in Senegal", then you had sub-sections "Political Influence" "Cultural Influence" "Economic Influence". I think you would find that you have information to add to both the political and economic sections. Also, some of what you are going to write about might fit better in the section near the top about Mouridism under French colonialism. Be sure to describe how the French and Mouride leaders worked together to spread groundnut cultivation in that part. Good start.Prof M Johnson (talk) 18:24, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Miriamao (talk) 01:24, 30 September 2011 (UTC) and Marauz will be editing this article for our Politics of Developing Nations class throughout this semester (til Dec 2011), we will be mainly focusing on the part of the Mouride's influence in Senegalese politics.[reply]

Website

look at www.majalis.org to know more about Mouridiya — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.207.198.113 (talk)

WikiProjects Politics

Here is our proposed Bibliography:

Beck, Linda. 2008. Brokering Democracy in Africa. New York: Palgrave Macmillan. 68-115
O'Brien, Donal. 1971. The Mourides of Senegal: The Political and Economic Organization of an Islamic Brotherhood. Oxford: Clarendon Press.
Villalón, Leonardo. 1995. Islamic Society and State Power in Senegal. New York: Cambridge University Press.
Gellar, Sheldon. 2005. Democracy in Senegal: Tocquevillian Analytics in Africa. New York: Palgrave Macmillan.
Boone, Catherine. 2003. Political Topographies of the African State. New York: Cambridge University Press. 46-67

Miriamao (talk) 01:47, 7 October 2011 (UTC) and Marauz (talk) 01:50, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This bibliography looks great! When referencing individual sentences, the citation should specify the exact page number that contains the information referenced. You can read more about how to cite sources on Wikipedia here. Neelix (talk) 20:01, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback from Govt Class

This is looking very good. You should add to the introduction a one paragraph summary of your section on political, economic influence. Also, I think you need a discussion under the economic part about the Mouride's role in the informal economy which is huge today.

Also, doesn't Beck talk about the fact that Mouride leaders used to give Ndigels to vote for someone but don't really do it anymore because they didn't want to sacrifice religious authority when people started to wonder about their political advice?

If you want to get your article recognized for its quality, you might want to add the other parts of the article if you have time.

Prof M Johnson (talk) 00:58, 12 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Your sections on Mouride political, economic, and cultural influence on Senegal are very well written and thorough. The sentences flow well together and have great clarity. I saw no typos or grammatical errors, and I only have one suggestion for revision. The first sentence in the Cultural Influence section, "Islam is central to the political sociology of Senegal: the religious elite carry great weight in national politics; political discourse is replete with references and appeals to Islam." could be broken into two sentences to remove the need for colons and semicolons. I'd suggest rewriting it to say "Islam is central to the political sociology of Senegal. The religious elite carry great weight in national politics, and political discourse is replete with references and appeals to Islam." Aside from that, I haven't any other suggestions for improvement. Great work ladies! Annie.Lebo (talk) 02:56, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Miriam and Michelle have done an excellent job in writing out their section on Mouride Influence Inside Senegal. The section is very well structured and the information is concise. I did not find any major edits that need to be made to the section however, I can suggest a couple of minor edits which they can choose to make or not - "In order to attain their support in elections, bribes and material incentives were given to marabouts from political parties and potential candidates"

This can be rewritten as "In order to attain their support in elections, political parties and potential candidates gave bribes and material incentives to marabouts."

The word dependant in the second line of paragraph reading as "While the political elite finds itself..." should be "dependent". Missing punctuation - "In exchange for political favors, these magicians give political leaders a powerful amulet which is thought to bring advancement for oneself or disaster for ones enemies." Should actually be one's. The shaikh (religious leaders) Should be singular i.e. leader. Try rephrasing this sentence: "The shaikh (religious leaders) can seek to buy the agreement through gifts and help to promote the career or threat to ruin the career of these local politicians and leaders." Maybe use threaten instead of threat; sounds a little odd the way it is. Remove 'the' before Senegalese politics - "Marabout very rarely themselves participate directly in the political process. What is more common is to see them exert their influence over their followers and use this in return to gain a larger presence in the Senegalese politics." Punctuation errors - "Although recently Mourides have become more involved in the highest level of politics. (Change to comma) Abdoulaye Wade who is the current president of Senegal is also a devout Mouride. The day after his election in 2000 (Put comma after 2000) Wade travelled to Touba to seek the blessing of the Grand Marabout, Serigne Saliou Mbacke."

Economic Influence "This partnership between the Brotherhood and the government, (remove comma) stems from the French colonial administrators, who had viewed the production of groundnuts by the Mourides as a means of economic advantage through the increasing production of crops for export."

Consider revising long sentence - "Economic involvement is in fact encouraged by the religious leaders to their disciples through the use of ideology that places great value on the production labor which is performed in the service of God."

"Because of their emphasis on work (insert comma after work) the Mouride brotherhood is economically well-established in parts of Africa, especially in Senegal and The Gambia. In Senegal (insert comma) the brotherhood controls significant sections of the nation's economy, for example (insert comma) the transportation sector and the peanut plantations. Ordinary followers donate part of their income to the Mouridiya."

"Islam is central to the political sociology of Senegal: the religious elite carry great weight in national politics; political discourse is replete with references and appeals to Islam. There is virtually no opposition to the principle of the secular state, socio-political cleavages based on religion, whether between Muslim and non-Muslim or between Sufi orders, are also virtually non-existent. [10] Within Muslim discourse (insert comma) we find constant reference to such concepts as Islamic government, Islamic economics, or Islamic social order."

"The Senegalese have a mystical aspect to Islam, much like the (omit the) Sufism. In Senegal, Islamic practice usually requires membership in religious brotherhoods that are (is) dedicated to the marabouts of these groups. Marabouts are believed to be the (omit the) mediators between Allah and the people. The (Omit the and begin with People) people seek the help of marabouts for protection from the evil spirits, to improve one’s status (in terms of career, love or relationship, finances etc), to obtain a cure or remedy for sickness, or even to curse an enemy. Marabouts are believed to have the ability to deal with the spirit world and seek the spirits’ help in things impossible for humans. The spirits’ help is sought since they are thought to be a source of much baraka, or divine grace."

"The marabouts of the Mouride Brotherhood devote less time to study and teaching (teach?!) than other brotherhoods."

Consider revising this sentence - "The maraboutic and taalibe (a disciple or a marabout or student in a Qur’anic school) relationship Senegal is essentially a relationship of personal dependence." "In a charismatic relationship demonstrations of devotion and abnegation towards the marabouts can only (insert be) explained because their taalibes see them as intercessors or even intermediaries with god. "The results (result) is that marabouts are expected to provide certain material benefits to their follower in addition to the spiritual ones."

Fix spellings of responsible and expansion "These collective farms were largely rsponsible for the expanision of peanut cultivation."

"In contrast to a vision of (insert the) masses blindly manipulated by a religious elite, the ties of taalibes to their marbabouts (marabouts) are frequently far more contingent and tenuous than assumed." Pfaheem (talk) 06:24, 13 November 2011 (UTC) Pernian Faheem[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mouride/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Piotrus (talk · contribs) 00:00, 23 November 2011 (UTC) GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria[reply]

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:
Reads fine to this ESL.

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
1) WP:LEAD requires that the intro provides a summary of the article and does not contain any new information. Current lead fails on both counts, as I see at least one (unreferenced) claim not covered in the aricle (The Mouride make up around 1/6 of the total population in Senegal), and the lead does not mention anything on major sections of the article (structure, beliefs). 2) Section headings need to be decapitalized (Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters). 3) Improper bolding used at least once (Amadou Bamba), see Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting#Boldface. 4) The article is reasonably blue and red linked *all leaders are likely notable and should be linked) till "Cultural Influence" section which needs wikification (WP:BTW). 5) Disambig tool detects two links that need to be disambiguated: [1]. 6) Elink tool detects three dead external links which need to be fixed or replaced: [2]. 7) Dahiras and Daaras sections are so tiny they should be at the very least merged together. 8) At least one sentence has improper subject ("we find") (Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#First-person_pronouns). 8) Expansion tag is present. As I see no explanation on talk for it, it should be removed. 8) External links suggests spam - some lack formatting, others suggest peacock issues: "a rare book"... "a modest tribute".
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:
1) Some references are missing an URL. 2) One reference is not formatted: www.worldtrek.org 3) O'Brien and Villalón book references need page ranges. 4) The article has a section on non-inline references (Sources). Non-inline references are not acceptable, the entries there should be moved to Further Reading and External Links section.

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
Major swathes of unreferenced text are a primary concern here. Not a single footnote in history section. Not a single footnote for leadership. Multiple sentences in latter sections are missing a reference.

C. No original research:
Red flag due to poor referencing.
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:
Two issues need clarification: 1) List of leaders ends at 2010. Who is the current leader? 2) Sects sections suggest more than one exits, but only one (Baye Fall) is discussed.

B. Focused:
Seems on topic.
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
No red flags.
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
No red flags.
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
All seems fine.

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
All seems fine, another image could be easily added near the end.
Overall:
Pass or Fail:
On hold awaiting responses. Please let me know if anything is not clear; please consider pinging me on my talk page to ensure I am notified ASAP. If something is addressed, please make a clear note of that both here and in the edit summary. If I am not notified of any changes on my talk page, I may not revisit this page before a week or so, when I will assess the progress made based on the comments here, and if no rationale have been presented for extra time, I'll pass or fail the article based on its state at that time. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 01:24, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The week mark is close, and I am seeing no sign of life. This is disappointing. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 23:16, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And failing due to no activity on the part of the editor(s) asking for the review. It's really not hard to check this page every few days and ask for extension if needed. Asking for a review and abandoning the page is not very respectful of the time volunteer editors put into providing feedback. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 00:36, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Piortus, Thank you for all the feedback. My students are working on the article as part of the wiki campus project. They are due back to edit it tomorrow and will make what improvements they can. As our course was focused on politics, they are best equipped to address issues related to the sections near the end and will also edit the lead, as well as citations. It may still not meet good article status but should be improved. Prof M Johnson (talk) 02:43, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Prof M. I will be happy to offer any further assistance, and I am glad to hear that here will be some further work on the improvements done. As a teacher myself I realize the constrains of educational setting, but please note that Good Article reviewers expect interaction with the editors involved in nomination on the scope of days, rather then weeks, and thus if editors (students) show no activity for extended periods of time, Good Article nominations are likely to be failed on the grounds of no activity. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 04:26, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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Spelling of names

I would like to create articles for the different caliphs and Sufi figures. But I have noticed that the names of all the caliphs and are highly inconsistent. Is there any agreement on how to standardise these spellings? DjembeDrums (talk) 16:23, 28 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Wikipedia Ambassador Program course assignment

This article is the subject of an educational assignment at Mills College supported by WikiProject Politics and the Wikipedia Ambassador Program during the 2011 Q3 term. Further details are available on the course page.

The above message was substituted from {{WAP assignment}} by PrimeBOT (talk) on 15:56, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2024-04-24 Changes

Hi everyone,

I made various changes to this page as part of a university assignment and some additional personal interest and knowledge:

-Added some detail to the colonial history section

-Fixed, edited, and added to the political influence section. Here I also removed some paragraphs which, as far as I could tell, were misunderstandings of the provided sources. I also added some page numbers for the existing sources where I came across them during my own research. Where possible I retained the previously written article, but given how extensively it draws from one (albeit seminal) source, a further rewrite may be a worthwhile idea. Same for the other types of influence, which I did not look at in detail beyond fixing some sources.

-Added a section on the relationship with Salafist-inspired Reform movements. I wasn't entirely sure where to put this to maintain the structure so I added it under beliefs but another position may fit better. This includes some discussion of how the reform movement and the mourides have taken from one-another, which I hope is somewhat relevant to the article.

-Expanded the section on dahiras to elaborate on their role and history somewhat. More could be added here, but I did not have the time to do so.

-Cleaned up and edited existing citations. These were a bit of a mess and in order to write my own additions this had to be done. Where I could find the page number I also added it to all of them.

-Fixed a few typos throughout the article.

I believe that sums up the changes. If you have any questions or concerns about my changes and the process behind them please let me know, I'll gladly discuss them. Olopi (talk) 22:25, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]