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Archive 1Archive 2

Mary Worship?

What is this portion on "Roman Catholic Mary worship" doing in this article? Roman Catholics have never worshiped Mary, but even if this pointed 'debate' were to be had it certainly has no place in this article. Except that Mary was known as "The Mother of Jesus" and so is recognized on Mother's day..
MMMM... I might not get your point but I would disagree. Yes, the roman catholics are celebrating the Virgin Mary (in particular on August 15th). Are you arguing on the word WORSHIP ? 96.225.214.42 (talk) 15:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Though Roman Catholics technically venerate rather than worship Mary, murals and statues in both Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches suggest she is a goddess, the Queen of Heaven of many pre-Christian cults and religions. May, I believe, is the month of Mary for Roman Catholics. Ladybugs, which appear around May, also refer to Mary, as their name in German (Marienkäfer) suggests.75.33.186.10 (talk) 13:03, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

International info needed

The article could use more info on non-USA recogntion and celebration of Mother's Day. -- Infrogmation 20:38 May 10, 2003 (UTC)

Agreed. Can some non-US contributors add some things? -- Zoe

Actually, like to see some more relevant USA/commercialisation info about this date, as these aspects are most likely why the article exists and is read. Missing is reference to Anna Jarvis; her efforts to commemorate the anniversary of her mothers death as a day of national recognition for mothers. And subsequently her regrets upon seeing the overt commercialisation that evolved a score of years after her success of doing so. --oom ...................... If Mother's Day falls on a sunday, how can it be a holiday?

Mother's Day exists in other countries than those addressed in the article. For instance in Italy and France and date may differ : May 11 in Italy and May 25 in France this year. Ericd 10:46 May 14, 2003 (UTC)

The list of dates at the end of the article is very interesting and useful but it seems odd that the UK's mother's day is singled out as being unconnected to the US mother's day. Does this mean that the others are all in some way connected? It seems unlikely but I know little about their origins. --Kazuhiko

doing a quick check before tomorrow (the first Sunday in May), it turns out that, this year at least, South Africa is holding Mother's Day on the second Sunday rather than the first as indicated -- what sources do we have for non-US dates? Kwill 17:41, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Usually the sources are contributions from Wikipedians from those countries. I live in Poland, so I inserted Mother's Day date in Poland. I believe others did similarly. Przepla 19:02, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Disputed

I have heard from numerous sources that the number one day for suicides by mothers is on mothers day. Anyone have any sources for this? (if this turns out to be true, we need to go find a mother who has a child that does not call and give her a hug!)

"Baking a cake is one way to show a mother how much you appreciate her." Disputed... Agreed? --Domthedude001 21:06, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

It is "one way to show a mother how much you appreciate her." Therefore, I think the tag should be removed. I dont think however that the cake is the best way to illustrate Mothers Day. -Reuvenk[T][C] 22:14, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, yes, a cake is "one way." So is taking your mom to a NASCAR event. So what? Commercially, I've read (somewhere) that the No. 1 way of "celebrating" is to buy chocolate. --Michael K. Smith 13:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

(This is my first entry. Please let me know if I am doing anything incorrectly.) All of the above suggestions are GREAT IDEAS! May I offer some additional suggestions? As some mothers are "high maintenace" and some are low maintenance, how about finding out what each unique mother would like, either by observation or (gasp)asking her what means the most to her?

In my limited 70 years of experience, most mothers I know would simply like to know they did somethings right and that their children appreciated the efforts. No matter what the gift, a sincere thank you means the most.LegacyCreator (talk) 20:09, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Mother's Day vs Mothers' day

Why do we have two articles on the same thing? ---FoodMarket talk! 19:22, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

We don't, they redirect. However, the main page should not be "mother's day" it should be "mothers' day" or just "mothers day". "Mother's Day" implies there is just one mother out there, and the day is just for her!

I agree; "Mother's Day" should redirect to "Mothers' Day" and not the other way around. 195.248.125.91 14:23, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I also agree, but I don't know how to actually make the change. To be fair, though, I don't believe I've seen anyone write mothers' day, even if that is technically correct. Maybe this is a case where the incorrect spelling is the popularly accepted one, and therefore (by the magic of descriptive rather than prescriptive language rules), maybe Mother's Day is the right way to spell it. --128.151.253.249 12:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, in Portugal the day is called "Dia da Mãe", singular. Minor detail, maybe.--portugal 23:07, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

But doesn't the Portugese translate to "Day of the Mother," referencing all mothers, rather than "Day of a Mother," referencing just one? I agree that Mothers' Day is probably correct, but that Mother's Day may be what we need to accept as common use. Same problem as Programmer's Day v. Programmers' Day, Father's Day v. Fathers' Day or Fathers Day. -- Lisasmall 16:40, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I would think that Mothers' Day, rather than Mother's Day, is more logical, and also the more commonly used, at least in Australia, where I live. Alpheus 07:34, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that there is any argument that both "Mothers' Day" and "Fathers' Day" are the only correct uses. They are regularly used in respectable publications and follow grammatical logic. Additionally, consider "Children's Day" briefly mentioned in this article - if the preferred form were "Mother's Day" it should be "Child's Day" which is patently absurd. Unless someone can provide a single convincing piece of evidence, it is clear that the main articles should be at "Mothers' Day" and "Fathers' Day" with "Mother's Day" and "Father's Day" redirecting. Turkeyphant 13:39, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

There are arguments, and there is evidence that "Mother's Day" is correct. A personal argument: I have only one mother, and as far as I am concerned, Mother's Day is her day.
More objective arguments are given below in the discussion about the proposed move. Several dictionaries only know "Mother's Day". Whether this is logical or not can be (with sources) discussed in the article, but the title should follow the "usual" use of the phrase in the English language. When there are several possible "usual" uses, I think it is bad manners to rename the article to change from one correct name to another.
--Austrian 13:37, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
What if one of the "usual" uses has more reasons to suggest it is correct? Turkeyphant 00:27, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
First, we do not count reasons here. If anything, we weigh them.
Second: it is not about "what is correct", but rather "is the current version incorrect?". According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English), we (generally) do not change British to American spelling, nor conversely. I think a similar policy should apply here.
Third: I do not know whether "Mother's" or "Mothers'" is more common overall (See WP:COMMONNAME). But on wikipedia, there are only a handful of pages that link to Mothers' Day, whereas links to Mother's Day are much more common. --Austrian 20:58, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
There is no reason to perpetuate a mistake. This is nothing to do with a regional variation where there are two correct answers. One is right and one is wrong - this ought to be rectified before it causes more mislinks throughout the wiki. Turkeyphant 11:44, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Women's Day vs International Women's Day

Likewise, is it necessary to have two links to the same article? These two links do just that.

Rhesusman 7:22, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

happy mothers day to every mother out there :-D luv ya's —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.254.71.143 (talk) 09:29, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

In Vietnam, March 8th is called International Women Day, not Mother Day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.254.165.15 (talk) 15:16, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Inga Sander??

What's the random link to Inga Sander under March 8th about? I can't find any resources as to what this is... and its certainly not a country. Thoughts? Insomniacity 21:23, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't know when it went away, but the Sander link is no longer present. -- Lisasmall 16:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Children's Day?

How come parents get holidays in the USA but children don't? It would be great if there was a day where kids--and only kids--get gifts! There is such a day in other countries, but Mother's Day and Father's Day exist in the USA. Children's Day, however, .

November 14, Birthday of Jawaharlal Nehru, is observed as Children's day in India. FLaRN2005 16:33, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Christmas/Easter/Birthdays where children get lavished with gifts compared to their parents. 84.70.117.5 06:41, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

and most of the rest of the year —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 16:16, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

yes i agree there should be a kids day good'on'ya dude —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.254.71.143 (talk) 09:32, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Mother's Day in South Africa

April is known as the holiday month in South Africa because we have so much to celebrate, then we have May Day and Mothers Day is on the second Sunday because we have so many other days to.., is it too.., or tutu? Gregorydavid 07:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Non-Christian Calendars

I'm presuming we're listing dates according to the relevant calendar (See Israel). Is anyone able to track down data on the Muslim calendar for the entry on Mother's Day in Iran?samwaltz 11:46, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Can't find "Mothers Day" in Iran, But found this:

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/145/story_14548_1.html Can Muslims Celebrate Mother's Day? I found this article on Islamics' view of the US version of Mothers Day. Maybe it is helpful. I cannot find a single reference for the day in Iran or on the Muslim calendar. I suspect they feel the same about a day for women as they do about women?
I would like to know more. The reference is found here for the entire search: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Muslim+Mother%27s+Day&btnG=Search cpswarrior 16:24, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Putting your obvious dislike for Islam aside, there is a Mother's Day in Iran. I don't know the date but my father sends his mother a card each year for Mother's Day. And on that note, though Iran is an Islamic Republic it does not follow the lunar calendar. It follows the solar calendar and it's year is 365 days long.

Heymon32 19:21, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I updated the Iran date with sources. The country uses gregorian calendar, but they use the islamic lunar calendar to calculate on which day the celebration falls. I added a small history section.
I have no clue of where the "Mother And Child Foundation" part came from, and all references on google seem to be based on wikipedia, so I removed it. --Enric Naval (talk) 21:16, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Would love to see some criticisms

I don't think I'm the only one in the world who finds all these Hallmark holidays to be a little mawkish. I'd love to see the addition of a section critiquing the institution of Mother's Day -- I'd add it myself but I know it'd be way too POV. :)

How about this as an Anti-Mothers-Day Hallmark Card. "She brought you into this world ... but try not to hold it against her!" :))


- I don't know if there are any criticims worthy of publication, but it is interesting to note that in the past few years there have been more and more emotionally neutral Mother's day cards being produced. While they are not like "She brought you into this world ... but try not to hold it against her!" (which is very funny) they are also not too smarmy "your are the most important person in my life" either. I think it is great to give the consumers a choice in the emotional level of Mother's day cards. Not every one has the same relationship with their mother. Yodar Critch (talk) 14:53, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposed move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no consensus for move. Joelito (talk) 15:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Mother's Day to Mothers Day. The day is for all mothers, not just one mother, as the current title suggests. Mothers Day (without the apostrophe) is a more appropriate title. FortDeck 01:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~~~~
You could argue that the dot in India.Arie's name is unnecessary. It's still the name she goes by. The article title should reflect the name of the holiday, and this vote isn't to change the name of the holiday, which is indeed "Mother's Day" per many credible authorities. --NapoliRoma 17:38, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Where did you get the idea that the holiday was about unwed mothers? --SigPig 05:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
As long as we're changing the name of the holiday itself, I propose we merge it with Father's Day and call the new holiday Parent Day -- by omitting the possessive, we can neatly sidestep the whole issue. If this is a success, we can later merge all holidays, call the result Holiday and have it extend from January 1 through December 31. That way we can all stay home and edit Wikipedia every day, hurrah! --NapoliRoma 15:05, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The most common usage seems to be "Mother's Day." See also American Heritage Dictionary and Encyclopaedia Britannica. One could have in the first line "Mother's Day (also called Mothers' Day)..." or some such. I believe "Mothers Day" (no 'postrophe) to be, as King Arthur said, "right out." --SigPig 05:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose. It is over understood that one has only one mother. (Although currently it is possible to have more then one mother for several unorthodox cultural reason, but that isn't in question...) We celebrate "our mother's day", not everyone else's mothers.--Gakhandal 05:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Wilson

Could whoever wrote "In 1914 President Woodrow Wilson declared the first national Mother's Day, as a day for American citizens to show the flag in honour of those mothers whose sons had died in war (with specific reference to The Great War, now known as World War I)" please clarify? The Great War (WW I) started in Europe in July 1914 and the US did not get involved until 1917, so if Wilson declared this holiday in May of 1914, this does not compute. Or at least, not the part about "specific reference to The Great War." -- TIA.70.56.20.39 15:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

This was changed, obviously, some time ago. I just wanted to provide a reference for the 1914 date from the LoC : http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/today/may09.html Philhower (talk) 01:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Is this vandalism?

Hi. I took notice that Mother's day in Russia is stated here as the last Sunday in June, whereas in Japanese Wikipedia it is explained as the last Sunday in November. In older version, this article on English Wikipedia does say that it is the last November Sunday.

I tracked the edit where the change occurred [1].

Now I see that this IP anon, which made only this edit, made a lot of changes. Could this IP be vandalizing the edit?

I have little clue, but if you see Thailand's Mother's day, it is explained as the birthday of Sirikit, which is Aug 12, according to the Wikipedia article on her. Why is this IP changing the Mother's day from Aug 12 to Feb 12, then?

Similarly, Korean Parent's Day is May 8, but the IP changed it to May 5.

I thought I would note this in case some others can volunteer to further check the accuracies of the changes made in this edit.

Tomos 13:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

The notes don't appear to link to anywhere. --Bilge [TC] 00:01, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Relation to Gynaikratia?

The article makes a mention-in-passing to the ancient Greek celebrations of Cybele, and Gaia; and their analogies to the modern "Mother's Day" holiday.

I'm curious, however, as to a possible relation with the modern Greek holiday of Gynaikratia, where womanhood in general is exalted and appreciated, (and not motherhood per se).

Is there anybody familiar enough with Gynaikratia to support (or discredit) a connection to Mother's Day? Pine 21:09, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Government recognition

I would like to see a mention of government recognition added to the article. In most locations, I believe MD is simply a folk-holiday without administrative recognition. Is MD recognised by the US government? Various state governments? By other national governments? Or is it simply celebrated commercially/traditionally? samwaltz 18:07, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

No, Mother's Day is not an "official" holiday in the U.S. Here there are Federal holidays (Christmas, July 4th, etc), when your mail doesn't get delivered, government offices are closed at all levels, and practically everyone is off from school & work, nationwide. And then there are state holidays, which, naturally, vary from state to state (Texas Independence Day in Texas, Mardi Gras here in Louisiana, etc), and for which local government offices are closed, and which are also days off from school & work. And then there are loads of what you call "folk holidays" (good coinage), like Halloween and Mother's Day, which are widely celebrated according to various customs but which are not in any way "official." I don't believe Mother's Day is presently an official holiday in any of the states -- except that it's observed on a Sunday, so most businesses and schools and offices are already closed. --Michael K. Smith 14:10, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
It is official in this sense: in 1914 Congress passed a law, which WIlson signed on May 8, 1914, "designating the second Sunday in May as Mother's Day," and authorizing and requesting that Wilson issue a proclamation "calling upon the government officials to display the United States flag on all buildings, and the people of the United States to display the flag at their homes or other suitable places on the second Sunday in May as a public expression of our love and reverence for the mothers of our country." [1]
So, if you see any government building without a flag on Mother's Day, they're breaking the law. Dpbsmith (talk) 17:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
  1. ^ Rice, Susan Tracey and Robert Haven Schauffler (1915), Mother's Day: Its History, Origin, Celebration, Spirit, and Significance as Related in Prose and Verse. New York: Moffat, Yard and Company. Anna Jarvis and Philadelphia, p. 6; Mother's Day bill in Congress, pp. 4-5

When is Mother's day?

I think the actual date for Mother's day should be mentioned at the beginning of the article. Brian Pearson 16:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

  • The problem with mentioning the 'actual date' is that it changes year to year and some countries havefixed dates, some don't. --Tikuko 12:44, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Somebody could just change it from year to year. Or at least put this year's mother's day next to the US entry in the 'Mother's Days in various parts of the world' table
  • I do not think it would make sense to list all the possible dates for the current year at the beginning. Adding the current date in the table is more reasonable. But "second Sunday in May" is very easy to look up in any calendar; wikipedia is not a calendar.--Austrian 20:59, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Merge/History

This article was originally "Mother's Day". There has been some discussion about moving it to "Mothers' Day" in April/May 2006, and March/May 2007. A proposed move in July 2006 failed.

Austrian 11:11, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

There's nothing to merge. Mothers' Day was an unnecessary fork that was causing confusion, so I redirected it back to Mother's Day and fixed the double redirects that caused. WP:COMMONNAMES dictates that we use the most common punctuation, even if some people find it incorrect. Powers T 15:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Err, umm, actually the vast majority of the edit history appears to be at Mothers' Day. Not sure exactly how that came to pass, but the edit history really should be merged. older ≠ wiser 03:07, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Here is what happened:

  1. May 6, 13:55: User:Alain Vey moves "Mother's Day" to "Mothers' Day", with summary "correct grammar as per talk and wiki specs", leaving a "redirect" behind, and taking the history to "Mothers' Day". "Mother's Day" starts a new history.
  2. May 6, 17:29: User:85.102.195.199 (apparently) uses cut-and-paste to replace the "redirect" by a copy of the article. No edit summary.
  3. May 6 - May 9: Wikipedians edit both articles.
  4. May 9, 15:00: User:LtPowers replaces content of "Mothers' Day" by a redirect to "Mother's Day", citing "WP:COMMONNAME".

--Austrian 21:34, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Influenced by Anna Marie Jarvis?

I've been trying to unscramble the relationship between Howe's "Mother's Day for Peace" and Anna Jarvis' "Mother's Day."

Although the mother of Anna Jarvis, Anna Reeves Jarvis, did organize Mothers' Day Work Clubs to improve health and sanitation in her region, and although they assisted both Union and Confederate encampments in combatting typhoid fever and later help reconcile families split by the war, I haven't seen anything about her having influenced Julia Ward Howe. Is there a source for this?

I'm beginning to think that there's a sort of emerging myth to the effect that "Mother's Day was founded by Howe as an antiwar, almost feminist event, which was gradually co-opted by the forces of sentimentality," whereas my impression is that Howe's and Anna Jarvis' efforts were really quite separate; Howe founded a "Mother's Day for Peace," it died out, and then forty years later Anna Jarvis found a completely different "Mother's Day."Dpbsmith (talk) 01:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Mother's Day is the Second Sunday in May in the USA

For those of you who foolishly thought you might learn that simple fact from the article. Don't forget to call your mom. DonPMitchell 18:54, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. If you cannot determine what day Mother's Day is on by reading the article's gigantic table showing what day Mother's Day is on, then indeed you are foolish. :-) --Miken2005 21:13, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Mother's Day in Bulgaria

Does someone happen to know why Bulgaria was put down under the United States date (second Sunday of May) in addition to what I thought mother's day was (8 March)? Eeyore22 02:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Date

I put down Australia to begin with! Auroranorth 11:48, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Redo in order ?

This article is starting to look sprawling and disorganized. For example, there is a section called "Spelling" that doesn't have much to do with spelling. Are little attempts at touching it up going to be enough, or would a complete reorganization be in order? I looked up the link someone suggested: http://www.mothersdaycentral.com/about-mothersday/history/ and found it to be well laid out. The content can't just be recopied both for copyright and verification reasons, but perhaps we could agree that its general layout is a better example of how this holiday could be explained and presented to the public. jg (talk) 21:38, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

New Addition

Would be great to have this article in here - http://www.mothersdaycentral.com/about-mothersday/history/. It is one of the best histories i have found to date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.200.170.124 (talk) 21:21, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Spain

Why is Spain twice? In the Spanish version of this page it is in May, not December. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.251.165 (talk) 17:44, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The correct day on Spain is first sunday of May, I deleted the december entry. --Enric Naval (talk) 10:40, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I am glad I was right.--208.102.210.163 (talk) 00:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Apostrophe

Now surely, SURELY, it should be Mothers' Day, as in the day belonging to all mothers rather than just one? U-Mos (talk) 20:22, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

It's explained on this very same page why it's not like that, under the "Mother's Day vs Mothers' day" heading. --Enric Naval (talk) 22:05, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

New Addition

Would be great to have this article in here - http://www.mothersdaycentral.com/about-mothersday/history/. It is one of the best histories i have found to date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.200.170.124 (talk) 21:21, 11 May 2008 (UTC)


translation of la fête des mères

The correct translation is "feast/party (dutch: feest) of mothers", not day of mothers. Then it would be "jour des mères"... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.190.253.144 (talk) 16:19, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

removed all foreign names

I removed the names on different languages[2] because it fails WP:V verifiability policy which is one of the core policies of wikipedia. I saw this change to the malay name[3] and realized that this section has no sources at all and it's imposible for editors to verify that it's no simply some vandal changing the name "I eat fartings". I already had to ask an irish editor to correct a change to the irish name after another change by an anomymous editor. It's a pity, but we can't have unverifiable information on articles. Feel free to WP:RS reliable find some page listing the names on different languages and making a new list puting that page as a reference. --Enric Naval (talk) 01:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

customary to plant tomatoes?

In the United States sub-section, there is a random sentence at the end of the first paragraph. "In parts of the United States it is customary to plant tomatoes outdoors after Mother's Day (and not before)." Would someone please review this; to remove possible vandalism or move it to a more appropriate paragraph? ~ Agvulpine (talk) 07:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Poking around for references to planting tomatoes (a custom I'm entirely unfamiliar with) I have found one article which supports the claim [4]. It is a recent article, however (written after the tomato claim was introduced), and it might be using this entry as its source. - Stefanwulf (talk) 18:51, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

(ADDED AFTER ARCHIVAL) This sentence was removed. --Enric Naval (talk) 16:42, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

What's the point in this block of text? It seems to be using it to deduce which date is most common which would imply that Google is used universally, which is patently untrue.

Mother's Day is celebrated on different days throughout the world. Examining the trends in Google searches for the term "mother's day" shows two major blips, the smaller one on the fourth Sunday in Lent (it is also called ladies day and women's day), and the larger one on the second Sunday in May.

I propose that this block of text is removed, since it is either misleading (Google only used widely in some countries) or literally pointless.
Davidmaxwaterman (talk) 00:40, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

(ADDED AFTER ARCHIVAL) This text was removed. --Enric Naval (talk) 16:42, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Two objections relating to "the West" and "Women's Day"

1) DROP THE WEST:

"In most countries, Mother's Day is a new concept copied from western civilization. In many African countries..."

Western civilization?! Do you really need this elephant of an abstraction, and the supremacist ideology it implies? If this is even true, how about derived (not "copied") "from the holiday as marketed in the United States and Britain."

Shortly thereafter:

"Today many Greeks are beginning to observe Mother's Day as rendered by the West."

First of all, as a Greek, I cry unsourced bullshit. Even more alarming is the assumption that Greece is not part of "the West" (and thus probably not even civilized).

How can "the West" not include the country where, by its own mythology, it was invented?

What is "the West"? "America, Fuck Yeah!"?

In short, no reason to clutter up an article about a specific observance with an entirely irrelevant, vastly freighted and dubious ideological construct.

2) MOTHERS ARE NOT EQUIVALENT TO WOMEN

Mother's Day and the Women's Days as celebrated in various parts of the world cannot simply be equated, they are completely different concepts (with different origins). I can only conclude this article was written by someone unable to make a very basic distinction. Mothers, women, wot's the diff? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicholas NYC (talk • contribs) 16:38, 11 May 2008

I agree with the last point. Why do we have separate dates listed for both Mother's day and Women's day? Alright, in the absence of a mother's day in a given country you may celebrate your mother on March 8 by default. But you will also celebrate your grandmothers, your sister and female coworkers. So this is at best gray area. But what about countries where both Mother's day and Women's day is celebrated such as Russia and Mongolia, why would we list those countries twice if a Mother's day proper exists?
Also, in reference to Mongolia, a statement exists such as "Mongolia is the only country which celebrates Mother's day twice". Mongolia is only listed once in the table for Mother's day. The second reference is for Women's day. So how is this statement true? Especially given that Russia is exactly in the same situation.
Also, in United States section the holiday is misspelled as "Mothers Day". Article is not editable at present 209.195.102.225 (talk) 22:54, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
I've made the fix you mention. Dreaded Walrus t c 03:38, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
I think we still have an unresolved reference to "Mongolia is the only country which celebrates Mother's day twice" What is this based on? Mongolia is listed in the table once for Mother's day and once for Women's day, same as plenty of other countries. What is meant by this statement? 209.195.102.225 (talk) 16:22, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

(ADDED AFTER ARCHIVAL) The Mongolia sentence was removed, and it appears once in the table, in 1st June, as "The Mothers and Children's Day". --Enric Naval (talk) 16:42, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

United States?

I'm pretty sure Mother's Day in the U.S. is exactly the same as it is here in Canada. I believe the United States section should be reworded to include Canada and possible other English speaking countries who experience the exact same holiday on the same day. I'd recommend saying "North America" instead, but it looks like Mexico's Mother's Day is different. Best bet would probably be to add a paragraph stating that other countries such as ___ have adopted the same day etc. etc. -- Tkgd2007 (talk) 01:46, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

As with the article Mother's Day (North America) there are absolutely no details or even mentions of Mother's Day in Canada in this article. This needs to be rectified one way or another. 76.10.136.60 (talk) 13:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Mother's Day or Mothers Day?

Is it really "Mother's Day" as in a singular possessive? (Like my own Mother's Day) or as a holiday is it plural as in "Mothers Day" as in a day for (all) mothers? I think this hasn't been properly addressed 65.102.40.110 (talk) 01:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, it has been addressed a lot of times, see Talk:Mother's_Day#Mother.27s_Day_vs_Mothers.27_day on this same page. The correct spelling is "Mother's Day" --Enric Naval (talk) 03:13, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
The correct title of this article, and of every mention of the holiday should be "Mothers' Day" rather than "Mother's Day". It's a celebration of "mothers" not of "mother." The discussion referenced seems to indicate that the correct spelling IS "Mothers' Day" and yet the article remains unchanged. Does anyone have a valid reason why it should be a singular possessive? The reasoning for what other WP articles link to is irrelevant, as they would link to the article as it was titled when the link was added; if it were incorrectly titled, it would be incorrectly linked. --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 20:15, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
As the discussion indicates, most dictionaries recognize only Mother's Day spelling, like Webster does [5], and Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English 2008 [6] so that's the common usage in english, so that's the spelling that we should use on wikipedia. Hell, even Urban Dictionary only has an entry for this spelling [7].
Father's Day is based on Mother's Day, so it should have the same spelling. --Enric Naval (talk) 00:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Also, every source on the article except the BBC one uses that spelling, including the one about the creation of the holiday, and the one about about the US Congress voting on the holiday. A search on BBC's site[8] reveals that Mother's Day is also the preferred (lol, spelling) prefered spelling on BBC. I didn't count the Google Trends source because it chokes on any apostrophe that you use on your search, so I suppose that it treats both spellings as the same word --Enric Naval (talk) 00:12, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
And the proclamations of George W. Bush on 2004[9] and 2001[10], and check the spelling on all these history books and newspapers [11]. Also, the Library of Congress page [12]. Notice that the original the 1870's proclamation does not have the holiday's name on it [13] (clic on the image to read it). I assume that Woodrow Wilson's proclamation used that spelling. Adenda: from the library of congress website mentioned, on 1905 by Anna Jarvis was trying to get stablished a "Memorial Mothers Day" (sic).
So, sorry, but I'll have to revert to the "Mother's Day" spelling, and do the same on the "Father's Day" article, since it seems that this is the preferred spelling in english. --Enric Naval (talk) 00:23, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Ok, perhaps consensus dictates this change, but let's be clear on the reasons why - it's an error either way, and there's a difference between a commonly-made spelling error and "preferred spelling." You've provided a large number of resources, so I can see how this argument can move toward erring on the side of common usage, but it's clearly an error, even if a common one. We have examples of similarly plural holidays in "Presidents Day" (or Presidents' Day), "Veterans Day" (or Veterans' Day), and "Grandparents Day" (these three are celebrations of multiple Presidents, multiple Veterans, and all Grandparents, respectively); while we have appropriately singular examples such as New Year's Day (it celebrates a single year) and Valentine's Day (in honor of St. Valentine, a single individual). --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 02:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
(sorry for making my posts so long) There are other holidays that have different prefered spellings, see the articles at Category:Holidays_in_the_Soviet_Union. Altought there seems to be a general standard, you can see exceptions like International_Women's_Day, which appears to be inspired on Mother's Day and seems to have inherited its english spelling (no idea on whether the russian original name is singular or plural).
Also notice the incoherences on translations across different countries. If you click on the languages list on the left: in spanish and catalan it's singular, in french and portuguese it's plural, in german de:Muttertag appears to be singular (after looking at the "mutter" entry on german wikitionary, the plural uses an umlaut: Mütter), dunno about other languages. I stroked my "preferred" above.
One note, it's not consensus that dictates this, it's reliable sources. At most, you could talk of a consensus on how to interpret the sources :) There is also a Manual of Style page that deals with spellings, and that page is actually backed by raw consensus, but even then it is still backed with reliable sources to verify that the practices described are actually correct. --Enric Naval (talk) 15:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
That's really interesting about the other languages - fascinating that it's inconsistent there too. "International Women's Day" is plural - if it weren't it would be "International Woman's Day." This is yet another example that proves that "Mother's Day" is a spelling/punctuation error. Speaking of spelling errors, you were right the first time, it's "preferred." Anyway, reliable sources that show it spelled this way can only demonstrate that it's a common error, and probably one that's common enough to dictate common usage, and thus the spelling used in this article. But I maintain that it's an error regardless. --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 16:10, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, the spelling is probably erroneous. Woodrow's proclamation must have made that spelling official, and it has been kept that way since then. If go to HTTP referer and search for the word "spelling", you will see a very similar example of a mispelling becoming the correct spelling of a specific thing because someone wrote it incorrectly on an important official paper. (oh, you are right, "women" is plural, I hadn't noticed that detail) --Enric Naval (talk) 18:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
That could explain it, yes. We all know how important correct grammar is in the U.S. Presidency ;) So, Wikipedia guidelines mean that the article has to reflect the common spelling, whether it's in error or not? In other words, there's nothing that can be done here to "force" the correct spelling based on rules of language, when a common error prevails among the sources? --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 18:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
You need to find a good, verifiable source that discusses the matter. If Safire had written a column in the New York Times arguing for the correct placement of the apostrophe, or if an association of English teachers had petitioned the President to issue a decree requiring the correct placement, or something like that, you could summarize and cite that source in the article, and it would be a valuable addition. But, yes, just like dictionaries of American English, WIkipedia entries, in principle, are based on common usage, not "correctness." It's not very important because of the redirect mechanism. If Mothers' Day and Mothers Day don't already redirect to Mother's Day, they soon will. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:20, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Lol, Mothers Day exists since 2002, but Mothers' Day was only created a few days ago, when a similar discussion happened --Enric Naval (talk) 23:14, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

While looking for sources for Woodrow's declaration, I found the real reasons for the spelling [14] --Enric Naval (talk) 19:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Another similar discussion

There was a May 2007 discussion on this same topic Talk:Mother's_Day/Archive_1#Mother.27s_Day_vs_Mothers.27_day --Enric Naval (talk) 21:16, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

The May, 2008 congressional votes, last paragraph, Mother's Day#United States

Someone deleted this as "political nonsense." I'm reinserting it (but not mentioning the party name in the main text, curious readers can easily find it in the footnote. I think it's intensely amusing, and would be whichever party did it... and is relevant to the article because it shows the U. S. cultural important of Mother's Day and "motherhood." If Congress had had a similar vote about apple pie I'd certainly want it to be in the Apple Pie article, and if Congress had ever taken a vote about the value of Pi I'd--oh, wait, they did. Dpbsmith (talk) 18:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I really don't think the fact that you find it amusing is enough of a reason for it to be included in this encyclopedic article. --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 18:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
That's not the rationale I gave for including it. I think that an official Congressional action regarding Mother's Day is relevant in a section describing the history of Mother's Day in the United States, and this one is verifiable and properly referenced.
It happens to be true that I find it amusing, but that's neither a good reason for including it nor for deleting it.
Similarly, the fact that you consider it to be "political nonsense" is neither a good reason for including it nor for deleting it. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Touché. :) --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 20:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
It's worth pointing out, though, that, per WP policy, the burden is on justifying the inclusion of content, not for deleting it. —Shübop "Shadang" Âlang 00:49, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
P. S. A case could be made for there being a certain amount of Congressional ambivalence about Mother's Day. Congress has not always treated it as a matter of great moment. In 1908 when the resolution instituting it came up, one senator objected that it would lead to days in honor of "the sisters and the cousins and the aunts," and another proposed substituting the Fifth Commandment. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:12, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I think the revision here is much more reasonable. It struck me as political posturing to name parties. Clearly, there could be perfectly legitimate political reasons for deciding against officially recognizing a holiday, regardless of its subject. But I don't see why it's relevant that this resolution was presented and yet did not pass. Shouldn't such details be restricted to things that actually happened, not just things that "almost" happened, or were simply talked about in Congress? --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 20:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
It passed successfully *both* votations. Not only that, but Republicans probably knew that the resolution would pass the second time, but asked for a revote anyways --Enric Naval (talk) 23:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Ok then, I must have missed that, sorry. But surely, if this is merely informational, and not an attempt at politicizing the issue, a more neutral reference can be found than one titled "Republicans Vote Against Moms; No Word Yet on Puppies, Kittens" ?? --Shubopshadangalang (talk) 06:33, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
That's the title of the NY Times Article, the gold standard of good sources. It's "All the news that's fit to print." Such articles are often re-printed. If you can find the same article, re-printed in the Daily Gazette or the Washington Times, go ahead, add it. Bearian (talk) 19:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
No, actually it's the Washington Post, but either way it's not a news item — it's a column. In other words, an editorial. I suggest re-reading WP:RS. —Shübop "Shadang" Âlang 19:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
I deleted the reference and added an unsourced tag. Perhaps it's not necessary to source that detail, as it relates to the previous sourced information? —Shübop "Shadang" Âlang 00:39, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
It also appeared on a journalist blog at the Cincinnati Enquirer[15]. I rewrote it to remove unnecessary details. --Enric Naval (talk) 14:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Thailand - sources

The following sources state that Mother's Day in Thailand is observed on Aug 12, Queen Sirikit's birthday:

  • An English edition of MCOT news has an article titled "Police chief returns earlier for Mother's Day", in which they mention "an audience with Her Majesty Queen Sirikit on Tuesday on the occasion of her birthday which is also observed as National Mother's Day."
  • thaizer.com, a website with tips and advice for Thailand, wrote on August 12, 2007: "Today is Mother’s Day in Thailand, the date fixed to coincide with the Queen’s birthday. Queen Sirikit is considered to be the mother of the nation just as the king is seen as the father of the nation."

--The very model of a minor general (talk) 14:54, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

 Done it was added to the article in August 2009. --Enric Naval (talk) 16:30, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Mother's Day in Japan

The article throws out the statement that "in Japan, Mother's Day is a heavily marketed concept"--which, frankly, it's not. Valentine's Day is heavily marketed and there is ample citable evidence. Christmas is also heavily marketed and there is ample citable evidence. So please remove this statement or add a citation. As it stands, I think it is reckless at best, and flagrantly stereotyping Japanese culture at worst.--Jpwrunyan (talk) 02:36, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Although my word is no more definitive than yours, I see just as many advertisements, signs, and commercials for Mother's Day as for Valentine's Day. How is that a stereotype when the US heavily markets the holiday too? --70.142.54.69 (talk) 12:40, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, you didn't compare it to the US initially. So perhaps my bias as a US citizen is in play here. Being a US citizen, I consider US "marketing" of things to be the norm. If something is "heavily marketed" to me, it is more commericalized than the US norm. Anyway, here you are seeing the problem with even describing it this way. What is your definition of "heavily marketed"? How are either the US or Japan heavily marketed by your definition? How are the other countries in this article not (or less so)? Why do you single out Japan and the US for the moniker of "heavily marketed"? yada yada yada... That's the problem I have with this adjective. I expect some justification for its use because, to me, it has a loaded negative connotation. Of course all holidays are marketed... but that goes without saying, right? So if you say heavily marketed, it adds emphasis. If there is no reason given for the emphasis, it sounds judgmental--for whatever reason. Anyway, the wording is better than before. If you were to say the Japanese Mother's Day is more commercialized now than it was in the past, I would be fine... but then, that's such a mundane observation that whether it's worth noting might be another issue. Anyway, I'm going to take it out. If you disagree, then please just consider my above argument before editing it back.--58.91.107.92 (talk) 04:09, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Is this a "federal holiday" or "national holiday" or anything in the US, or did President Wilson just make a statement to commemorate it at one time? I'm not sure from the wording in the article. -70.142.54.69 (talk) 12:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind, saw the Government recognition conversation. Still, this should be in the article. -70.142.54.69 (talk) 12:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
I changed the article to make explicit that the Congress passed a law on 8 May 1914 declaring an official Mother's Day and asking Woodrow to make a proclamation. The proclamation by Woodrow was made the next day. --Enric Naval (talk) 13:20, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

merge Mother's ring

Those "Mother's rings" seem to be a recent creation with no historical significance (not used by the founder of the holiday, for example). A short sentence or paragraph under the "commercialization" section should be enough. If someone provides sources then it can be expanded and splitted out as necessary. --Enric Naval (talk) 21:08, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree it could be merged, assuming that there are valid references showing that the rings are notable and that they are given for Mother's Day. It seems plausible that the rings can be given for birthdays since they use birthstones. Merging a general gift into a particular holiday may not be appropriate. Ost (talk) 21:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Hum, they are all Family Birthstone Rings, it looked like a general gift for mothers, a popular type of "memorial jewelry"[16]. I found a book explaining how it was first commercialized and how it sold a lot on Mother's Day[17]. No historical significance for the holiday, just a popular type of gift. I'll take down the merge tags and improve the article a bit with those sources. I think I'll just link to the article on the comercialization section. --Enric Naval (talk) 11:55, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Move?

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was No move Parsecboy (talk) 00:12, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Mother's Day → Mothers Day — The day celebrates mothers, it is not owned by them. Spelling error. -- User:jamacfarlane, 20:02, 28 February 2009 (GMT)
I've seen this same "spelling error" thing raised at two other articles: Talk:Father's_Day#Punctuation_Error and Talk:Burns_supper#Name. --Enric Naval (talk) 23:36, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose Mother's Day is the overwhelmingly common name; it is neither ambiguous nor confusing and I see no compelling reason to deviate from that in this case. Additionally it is a day dedicated to mothers, and thus may be called mother's day in the same way the days dedicated to particular saints are called Saint Foo's day. (I realised the struck through section is actually an argument for Mothers' Day. Oops!) --Rogerb67 (talk) 03:09, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Islamic section has own section; Jewish calendar lumped under Gregorian?

I was looking at the chart that tells when different countries celebrate Mother's Day, and I noticed that while the Islamic calendar gets its own section of the chart, the Jewish calendar is lumped under the Gregorian calendar. I'd move it, but maybe there was a good reason for it; I just don't know what that might be without treading into "bad faith" territory. Nyperold (talk) 04:20, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I made that edit. The reason is that the Islamic calendar uses lunar years which are shorter that solar years, so you can't match an islamic day to a certain gregorian day (notice that the Hindu Bangla Calendar, in the "Nepal" entry is also under "Gregorian" just like Israel, because it can be also matched to a certain day in Gregorian and put in the correct place in the list). --Enric Naval (talk) 12:36, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I have a question regarding this decision.. why is the Islamic calendar now listed first? The large majority of the information in this article relating to the calendar is Gregorian, and if you were to be impartial and do it alphabetically, Gregorian should also be listed first. The subject of religion is currently a very hot topic, and listing a minority first without good reason might seem like favoritism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.103.22.86 (talk) 10:13, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, the only reason is that I feared that readers wouldn't notice that there were two separate calendars it if I put it at the end. Maybe it was a baseless fear, I have put them now in alphabetical order as you suggest. --Enric Naval (talk) 22:37, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Mother's Day (North America)

Please note that the convention to use when a more specialized {{main}} article exists is to have a short summary in the general article, and the details in the more specific article. Since Mother's Day (North America) exists for U.S./Canada/Mexico/etc, this article's section on those countries should be minimal. Perhaps more than what I introduced, but definitely not so detailed as it was before. Thanks. 72.244.200.224 (talk) 19:50, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

You are totally right. (and yes, it's a bit too short now) --Enric Naval (talk) 21:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

miscellaneous

  1. Russia appears listed twice, under two disjoint set of Gregorian dates
    1. 8 March (marked with a dagger † and an asterisk), and
    2. Last Sunday of the month of November.

    Can somebody explain this? I have noticed the following:

    The dagger points to a reference indicating that Russia is among those "countries that celebrate International Women's Day", which I fail to see as an explanation for multiple disjoint set of dates. And in fact I fail to see how it is related to the subject of the article.

    The asterisk does not seem to be connected to any relevant reference. Reference no. 10, about holidays in Haiti, seems not related. It appears as if a reference might be missing.

    Russia, Latvia, and Liechtenstein have unexplained asterisks.


  2. The glyph † is usually called "dagger" by typographers. This article calls it "cross", which is appears to me rather unusual.
I fixed the dagger thing. Haity ref was formatted wrong, that's why there was an asterisk there. The real origin of the asterisk is a very old footnote that got lost at some point in time:
In Belarus, Bulgaria, Guyana, Macedonia, Mongolia, and Russia it is observed as International Women's Day, not specifically Mothers' day. In Romania it is celebrated as both Mother's Day and Ladies Day. text of the note around March 2008
I didn't fix the Russia duplication. --Enric Naval (talk) 15:47, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Panama Celebration December 8 Why?

Panama celebrates it's Mother's Day on December 8th every year to coincide wtih the Catholic Observance of the Immaculate Conception.

Guillermo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.67.0.14 (talk) 14:01, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

According to this opinion article [18], the Rotary Club of Panama asked in 1924 that it was celebrated in 11th May to honor mothers, but a politician called Aníbal D. Ríos moved it to 8th December and made it into a national holiday instead. --Enric Naval (talk) 16:48, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
I added this source, and this other source, saying that it was the idea of the wife of the president. --Enric Naval (talk) 19:22, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Things that the article lacks

  • a source for Cybele's celebration
  • the Greek celebration of Rhea
  • a source for the "Greece" section

--Enric Naval (talk) 16:58, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Correction on origin of Mothers Day

"The modern Mother's Day holiday was created by Anna Jarvis as a day for each family to honor its mother,[1] and it's now celebrated on various days in many places around the world. It complements Father's Day, the celebration honoring fathers.

This holiday is relatively modern, being created at the start of the 20th century, and should not be confused with the early pagan and Christian traditions honoring mothers, or with the 16th century celebration of Mothering Sunday, which is also known as Mother's Day in the UK."

The above text was taken from what is currently stated in Wikipedia.

After further research I have found the following:

Encyclopeadia Britannica (1959 edition) states: "A festival derived from the custom of mother worship in ancient Greece. Formal mother worship, with ceremonies to Cybele, or Rhea, the Great Mother of the Gods, were performed on the Ides of March throughout Asia Minor."

Regarding the adoption of Mother's Day in the United States, the New York Times of May 10, 1953 reported: "In spite of the popularity of Cybele,...and sporadic occassions honoring mothers during the Middle Ages, it was not until 1914 that the proper combination of sentimentality, idealistic promotion and hard business sense impelled the United States Congress to designate the second Sunday in May as Mother's Day." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.82.40.117 (talk) 16:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

The current online edition of Brittnnica says "In its modern form the day originated in the United States, where it is observed on the second Sunday in May."[19].
That NYT article is not saying that the holiday originated from those things. See how the original bill does not mention any greek or roman celebration, and the other sources on the article saying that it's from Jarvis and others. --Enric Naval (talk) 21:44, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
"Undoubtedly the Mother's Day idea is taken from the old custom of having a 'Mothering Sunday'" - google news - Evening Independent (FL), 1923. Hakluyt bean (talk) 01:08, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
That's an off-hand remark in an article about food. And it seems to get basic facts wrong: I never heard that mothering sunday was for "young couples" to go to home to mother and get good advice. --Enric Naval (talk) 15:49, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
The article focuses on Ms Jarvis, but these days it's hard to ignore that mother's day in various places is an old idea, even in the US. The significance of the modern US festival is presumably that it's an official, state-sanctioned holiday. Hakluyt bean (talk) 01:27, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Mothering Sunday

The page referrs to Mothering Sunday being a different celebration, but lists the UK and Ireland as celebrating Mother's day as invented in the US.

I think some clarity is needed, perhaps a symbol like le cross for international womens day.Rankersbo (talk) 11:33, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

The UK section also contains some incorrect information about Mothering Sunday being about going to your mother's church. It's about the mother church. cf. the page on Mothering Sunday. The fact that this might bring famalies together is coincidental. I cannot correct it as am not registered and the page is locked 212.159.100.49 (talk) 22:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Mothering Sunday is the original Christian event. Mother's Day is an American commercial invention which attempts to capitalise on an existing event to sell commemerative merchandise. Which is why Mother's Day in the US and UK will always co-incide with Mothering Sunday. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.215.23 (talk) 14:45, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Mothering Sunday wasn't celebrated in the US when Mother's Day was invented. And it wasn't originally a commercial invention, it became one later. I think that the creator of Mother's Day complained that the US had no celebration that honoured mothers, and that's why she had to create Mother's Day.
No comment on what is celebrated in Ireland. --Enric Naval (talk) 16:53, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Re Mothering Sunday not being celebrated in the US, that doesn't seem to be entirely correct. Look here: "Mothering Day to be observed by Mrs Dorris. An old custom to be revived.... Mothering Day originated among the members of the Episcopal church in the southern states..." google news archive - Eugene Register Guard 1915 (p4 of archive, p6 of original text, Social News, 2nd column). There's another reference on the facing page.Hakluyt bean (talk) 00:54, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

It's not the same celebration as the one on the UK.... "The eldest daughter makes a cake for the mother and serves it in a avenue of violets" has nothing to do with Mothering Sunday. It's something that some Americans made up to make a new holiday honouring mothers.
Hum, they made it up some years ago, and then they start celebrating it again at 1915. But Jarvis' Mother's Day had already been made an official holiday in 1914.... I have seen something like this in a couple of sources: some villages or cities invented mother's day traditions, and they never get repercusion out of their local ambit. --Enric Naval (talk) 16:17, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
P.D.: I made a mistake above. It appears that people collected violets in Mothering Sunday in medieval times, so Mrs Dorris was probably trying to copy Mothering Sunday customs. --Enric Naval (talk) 10:22, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Problems with claimed origins

It appears that the relation to the Greek celebration was made by Sally Hopkins, a researcher employed by Hallmark. It must have been sometime around 1977. The Greek and Roman festivals had absolutely nothing to do with mothers or motherhoods, they only honored the Mother of Gods (Cybele, also known as Rhea, Ops, etc). P.D.: I have found older sources saying also that Mother's Day comes from Rhea's celebration, some as old as 1944, and a New York Times article from 1926[20]. Getting sources to debunk this thing is going to be a total pain :-(

The Greek made a celebration honoring Rhea where ten female priestesses (the Corybantes) danced like madmen for three days. The male priests of Rhea were called Galli and they were castrated. It seems that Rhea had a fertility cult. The Romans celebrated the Megalesia festival to honor Cybele, the Mother of Gods. The Megalesia festival had even less to do with honoring actual mothers. The last day of Megalesia (8th March) they celebrated Hilaria, which was again about honoring gods, making games at the circus, and throwing parties.

Mother's Day doesn't originate neither from Mothering Sunday, but from American women wanted to honor American fathers. Those mothers were worried about civil causes like pacifism. They weren't inspired in neither Greek or Roman traditions, nor in any UK celebration (one editor found one local American Mother's Day celebration that was based on Mothering Sunday. All the other sources I have found say that it was from civil movements of American women, or from personal motivations of those women). --Enric Naval (talk) 18:34, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Mother's Day, the concept as celebrated today, does have origins in Mothering Sunday, from Anna Jarvis et al, and from the Vu Lan Festival. These are all different origins which have converged on what we've now got today across the globe. Mother's Day in the United States does not have origins in Mothering Sunday - but that is not what this page is about. PoisonedPigeon (talk) 00:31, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Mothering Sunday was no longer celebrated when Mother's Day reached the UK. In each country it started being celebrated when the US influence arrived. In some countries there were some already-existing festivities celebrating mothers or motherhood, and Mother's Day was moved to fit their dates. But those are different festivities, they have only been influenced and changed by the influence from the US holiday. In celebrations like Mothering Sunday you have people who are confusing the old customs with the new customs that have resulted from US influence. In the UK it has incorporated elements from the old Mothering Sunday festival, but it's only an official holiday due to US influence. --Enric Naval (talk) 11:05, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
You've got that the wrong way round. It was a holiday for girls in service when it was the original Mothering Sunday, but it is not a holiday in modern UK. Dbfirs 07:50, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
To clarify, in the UK and Ireland you can say that the current celebration is a mixture of Mothering Sunday and Mother's Day, but in other countries the US holiday has mixed with other local festivities, and it has nothing to do with Mothering Sunday. And in some countries there was already an existing holiday, while in others there were customs that had been forgotten and were revived when the US holiday influenced there. --Enric Naval (talk) 11:11, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Indeed - Mothering Sunday has been celebrated continuously for several centuries without break. But it is, in practice, not a separate practice any more than the celebration of Jesus' birth is separate from secularized Christmas celebrations. The problem seems to be that the article is trying to describe several different festivals celebrating mothers with different histories but, following US influece, share the name Mother's Day. This could be solved by changing the name of the article to be Festivals Celebrating Mothers and directing detailed information to Mother's Day (country) - but that doesn't seem right. Or to make this article more about the name and less about the festival, but that seems even worse.

Mother's Day in Brazil

The article mentions that Mother's Day in Brazil was proposed by the "Associação Cristã de Moços de Porto Alegre" and suggests "Brazilian Christian Association of Servants of Porto Alegre" as an EN translation. "Associação Cristã de Moços" is the Brazilian "Young Men's Christian Association". I suggest updating the translation to "Young Men's Association of Porto Alegre".

Ricardomt (talk) 13:02, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Netherlands

Can someone add some information about Mothers Day in The Netherlands? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deresser (talk • contribs) 19:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Pakistan

Something is wrong with the indentation for Pakistan in the quick link menu (not sure if that's the right name, but I think you'll get the drift.) Point is, I don't know how to fix it.[User:Unknowntbeast|Unknowntbeast]] (talk) 05:33, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

I think that it looks like it's indented because the flag has a whhite stripe on the left. --Enric Naval (talk) 07:33, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

the true mothers day

mothers day is not about honoring mothers, it is about peace. Julia Ward Howe, who wrote the words to the Battle Hymn of the Republic, suggested the idea of an International Mother's day to celebrate peace not celebrating mom's and what they do. yes they do a good job but its not about motherlyhood. it is about a day of peace and tranquility. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.199.55 (talk) 23:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Mothers day is about peace not celebrating moms—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.199.55 (talk • contribs) 23:48, 11 May 2010

Whatever Julia's suggestion, that is not how the day is seen in the modern world. Dbfirs 19:30, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Trademark

The article states that the phrase "second Sunday in May" is trademarked, and gives a reference that seems to support this claim. I'm not familiar with USA trademark law - is it possible to trademark such a common phrase? Dbfirs 09:18, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

They were trademarked back in 1912. I suppose that the rules were less strict back then, and that this trademark is no longer valid. Enric Naval (talk) 14:55, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

arab world??

why did they put arab world?? please change it to something more respectful like middle east thank you

There is a distinction. The middle east is much larger than the ethnic group of Arabs. I don't know what would be correct in the article, but if you think it's incorrect you can change it yourself. Shadowjams (talk) 22:43, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Arab World section needs a tidy-up for sense, please. 116.212.212.132 (talk) 01:57, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Cake Image

I suggest changing the cake image to something that is traditionally identified with mother's day and perhaps more attractive and professional. Google image search of 'mother's day' yields nearly exclusively images of flowers and mother's day cards...perhaps something more along those lines. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lindendoss (talk • contribs) 06:19, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

unfortunately, the Mother's Day category in commons doesn't have any useful image. Maybe we could use commons:File:Ink_96645mm_happy_mothers_day.jpg? --Enric Naval (talk) 12:21, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
I searched for old images that would be out of copyright, but I couldn't find any. I had no luck in Flick, either. I'm going to usecommons:File:Ink_96645mm_happy_mothers_day.jpg. --Enric Naval (talk) 17:32, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Topic of this article: US Jarvis' holiday

The topic of the article is the US-originated holiday that Jarvis created. I have found that, the more reliable the source, they more it says that it's a US holiday created by Jarvis.

The sources say that

  • a) it's not related to ancient festivals of motherhood
  • b) it's not related to Mothering Sunday
  • c) every time I search sources for one country, I find that Mother's Day was imported from the US, or was inspired by Jarvis' efforts, and then it was merged with local pre-existing celebrations.

In the country list, the emphasis should be in describing how the US Mother's Day reached the country, and how it mixed up with local celebrations, level of acceptance/rejection, the ideological/commercial purposes of the local promoters, differences and similarities with local celebrations of mothers, etc.

Mother's_Day#Historical_antecedents. Most of this section is unrelated to Mother's Day and should be moved to Mothering_Sunday#History.

--Enric Naval (talk) 12:40, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

No, the topic of this article is celebrations called Mother's Day - there is a separate page for the US holiday. Various holidays have assumed the name Mother's Day and imported many of the customs; there is probably an over-emphasis on the UK/Ireland history - which should be cut down. But: Mother's Day (as celebrated in the UK) has a history going back millenia; the name and most of the secular traditions come from the US, but the date and other traditions date back further. In the UK Mother's Day and Mothering Sunday are the same thing. So the history of Mother's Day (as a wholistic concept) includes that history; in the same way as the history of the United Kingdom includes the history of Scotland from before the Act of Union. PoisonedPigeon (talk) 13:36, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
But Mother's_Day#Historical_antecedents has five paragraphs that only have relevance in the UK. In every other country in the world Mother's Day has different origins. All that text should be moved to Mothering Sunday#history (or Mother's Day (UK)). --Enric Naval (talk) 14:01, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
In which case there should be no history section, at all, for the article - as there is no shared historical origin - each country would have its own. PoisonedPigeon (talk) 13:27, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
The modern US-originated holiday has its own history: the civil movements in the US. All it needs to explain about that Cybele is that it is not related at all.
Each country already has its own section, explaining how Mother's Day arrived to it, how it adapted to local customs, how it inspired new motherhood celebrations, etc. If Mother's Day is celebrated along other celebration, then that other celebration is explained. If Mother's Day is not celebrated, then the replacement celebration is explained. If Mother's Day inspired a new different celebration, like "Fête_des_Mères" in France, then the differences with the new celebration are explained. Etc. --Enric Naval (talk) 16:14, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
It's almost Mother's Day, I have moved the section to Mothering_Sunday#Historical_antecedents. It needs a bit of integrating with the rest of the article.... --Enric Naval (talk) 00:29, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Albania

I can't find any reliable source for Albania celebrating Parent's Day instead of Mother's Day. All I can find are copies of wikipedia. I found a speech by an Albanese Parliament member saying that it was Mother's Day in second Sunday of May, he doesn't mention Parent's Day. --Enric Naval (talk) 09:40, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I asked in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Albania#Mother.27s_Day_or_Parent.27s_Day.3F. --Enric Naval (talk) 12:52, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

So far i know both days are celebrated --Vinie007 15:02, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
Only mother day is celebrated (see Public holidays in Albania) --Vinie007 12:38, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Parents day does not exist (according to my Albanian wife) and Mother's day has always been on March 8th. /andreas (talk) 00:23, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Check out the Canadian Flag

Noticed that the flag symbol for Canada is incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.77.158 (talk) 04:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Someone has modified the flag templates so theyy would display old versions of the flags. He hasn't given any reason to do this, and I don't see any reason to do that, so I have reverted it. --Enric Naval (talk) 04:46, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Typo in "Modern Antecedents" section

"disappointed with its commericalization" last word should be changed to "commercialization" Sam bklyn (talk) 13:29, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Done. --Enric Naval (talk) 14:12, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

ChrysantheMUMs

Just wondering if the Australian section should be edited to add in why chrysanthemums are used? It's not just because they're in season, it's because they have the word "Mum" in them. Nurseries sometimes abbreviate them to "'mums" around Mother's Day too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.198.124.45 (talk) 06:12, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect Punctuation in Card Image

The first image on the page has a punctuational error. The text on the card is spelt "Mothers Day" when it should be "Mother's Day". Is this supposed to make the card seem that it was completed by a child or is it an honest mistake? WikiAtlas (talk) 02:44, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Romania

Just from reading the article, it seems Romania is not consistent, according to the text the table should show it on the first Sunday of May. Pauloya (talk) 13:58, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Russia

The information given in this article about Russia requires additional verifications (or links). I have never heard that Mother's day is celebrated on the "Last Sunday of November" in Russia, I am 99.99% sure that no one celebrates that day. People celebrate International Women's Day on the 8th of March instead. 129.67.186.53 (talk) 17:53, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Historical Origins of Mother's Day

I have been under the impression that Mother's Day was created by Hallmark Greeting Card company, as a means of selling greeting cards, yet I find no mention of this in the wikipedia article. But, I also find no real description of the events that led to the adoption of this holiday. What are the origins of this holiday? When was it first documented as being celebrated? How was the specific date for celebration determined, and by whom? I'll also post this link to another wikipedia article for anyone else that may be interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallmark_holiday

Instinctively, I suspect that there is some basis in truth to the assertion that Mother's Day is a manufactured holiday, and that any absence of this is indicative of pro-Hallmark bias, as they have an ongoing interest in maintaining the notion that it is part of the american cultural tradition, and there is no opposing, profitable motive to advocate otherwise. I'd be interested in any substantive information, one way or the other.Jonny Quick (talk) 03:56, 9 October 2011 (UTC)Jonny Quick

The modern holiday derives from the US holiday, but the lead doesn't mention it because of lack of clear sources. I think I have those sources at home, but right now I don't have the time to research them properly.
Most of the info was moved to Mother's Day (U.S.), and you can read it there.
P.D.: basically, the holiday was created in good faith by a religious woman to honor your own mother, but then the merchants changed it to mean that you had to make presents to your mother. The woman was very angry at this, she died poor, bitter, resentful, with no children of her own, and seeing how her holiday became a commercial holiday. --Enric Naval (talk) 09:13, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Wow, thats quite a story. Do you have any sources to support it? It would really add to this article.Beefcake6412 (talk) 19:04, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Please bare in mind that the origin of the US holiday of Mother's Day is not the same for the origin of all other celebrations of the same theme internationally. So if you wish to add this information, add it to the US specific section and / or on the separate Mother's Day (U.S.) page. 91.125.9.90 (talk) 18:41, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Grammar

The grammar here is incorrect in all English variants:

"devoted her whole life to raise her son"

should be

"devoted her whole life to raising her son."

"To" is not an infinitive particle followed by the infinitive - it is a preposition followed by a noun phrase - in this case starting with a gerund.

Alan Urdaibay 18/03/2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.85.186.86 (talk) 19:44, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

This article is a confusing mess

The article starts with a very general definition of what "Mother's Day" is and goes on to say that the various international celebrations calling themselves this are descendants of ancient festivals with no connection to the US holiday of the same name. It then goes on to spend the next two sections ("Modern antecedents and founding" and "Spelling") focusing largely on the US holiday. As if this wasn't enough, the next section ("Dates around the world") adds the "International Women's Day" to the mix. The next section ("International history and traditions") goes on to directly contradict the introduction by saying that "in most countries, Mother's Day is a recent observance derived from the holiday as it has evolved in America." The final section ("Commercialization") is entirely about the US holiday. And all of this despite the fact that the US holiday has its own article. I'm not even sure where to begin making changes here, as I was only brought to this page yesterday via the International Women's Day page after seeing that linked on the Main Page. Just thought I'd bring up the issues here to see if anyone else had any idea what to do with this mess. --Khajidha (talk) 16:31, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I totally agree with you. Mother's Day is a generic term for a variety of international celebrations of the same theme, thus the article should reflect this. Not all celebrations of maternity across the world were 'invented' or inspired by the US, thus when discussing the origins, the article should be structured on a country-by-country basis. I think the first thing to do is to remove the 'Spelling' section, the 'Commercialization' section and the 'Modern antecedents and founding' section since this is from a solely US-centric perspective, and all that information can be included in the US specific section, and indeed in its own article (which already exists). 91.125.9.90 (talk) 18:28, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Hum, "Mother's Day" is inspired in the U.S. holiday. There are other celebrations of motherhood, but they have different names, different meanings of motherhood and different traditions. --Enric Naval (talk) 15:29, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Mum: Australian Slang?

"and ends in 'mum', the Australian slang for a mother"

I wouldn't call 'mum' Australian slang. It's common around the world, don't know if it really qualifies as slang either.

You'd be quite correct then. All commonwealth countries use "mum" for mother. Even the U.S. says "mum" in certain states (though it is rare and is always spelled "mom"). The article has a lot of these silly mistakes on it. Under Canada it says "Quebecois tradition: giving flowers." I don't know about other countries but it's quite common to give flowers anywhere in Canada. I thought it a normal "tradition" on mother's day anyplace it's celebrated. Celynn (talk) 22:08, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request 13 May 2012

Hi This is my first comment ever so apologies in advance for any mistakes. I want to point out a problem with the United Kingdom and Ireland entry. The image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Homemade_Mother%27s_Day_Gift_Cookie_Bouquet.jpg#file is American. It has the word "mom" in the image. This word is not used in the United Kingdom and Ireland.|ans=no Serenblip (talk) 00:48, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Arab World Section?

Iran is listed as a country, why a separate section at the top? Seems unnecessary, as well as adding a palestinian section which is not a country and no source. Most likely vandalism... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.64.118.157 (talk) 02:33, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 May 2012

For India, where it says children consider mother as God, I would like them to know that it is because they believe that God came from his mother's womb also. Lyokoclaw (talk) 18:46, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Page protection has expired, you can now edit it yourself, closing request. Monty845 05:32, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 14 May 2012

Can I edit? 72.193.16.71 (talk) 01:01, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Page protection has expired, closing request. Monty845 05:32, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 14 May 2012

Please change the date for Mother's Day in France from May 27, 2012 to June 3, 2012. Citation: http://www.joursferies.fr/fetes_des_meres.php

As the grid itself states, Mother's Day in France falls on the first Sunday of June if the last Sunday of May is Pentecost. In 2012, the last Sunday in May is Pentecost: http://catholicism.about.com/od/2012calendar/f/2012_Pentecost.htm

Just trying to prevent some French Mother's from being disappointed.

Emschewe (talk) 06:04, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Emschewe (talk) 06:04, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Page protection has expired, you can now edit it yourself, closing request. Monty845 05:32, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
That's very difficult to fix, the dates are calculated automatically.... --Enric Naval (talk) 09:33, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
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