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Talk:Mohamed Hadid

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Safed Jewish family story has some issues

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Hadid's claim that his family lost their home in Safed seems complicated by the fact that he is from Nazareth, which is still an Arab city. I also am not aware of Polish Jewish refugees in Safed. This article casts doubt on his claims. This profile presents a different account and doesn't mention any such Jewish family. I've added text to attribute this story to an Instagram post he made, in the meantime. Zanahary (talk) 02:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are clear discrepancies in MH's family story that have yet to be properly looked into (I am still perplexed as to how his 1980s story of his family leaving of their own accord out of a desire to not live under Israelis transformed into a 2015 tale of being kicked out by Jewish refugees who locked them out of their own house). I'm sure time will tell.
That said, to clear one item up: Hadid was born at his grandmother's home in Nazareth. His family's home was in Safed. Mistamystery (talk) 02:19, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, gotcha Zanahary (talk) 02:27, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have two major issues with the quote as is stands in the second paragraph on "personal life"
1) the quote is attributed to Hadid's self published Instagram reel, but cites Mondoweiss. I believe the citation should be to his self published source which is the primary source, and which does not imply editorial review or fact checking
2) Reasonable critisism should be added (e.g. "MH was born after the family left Safed", or "This description does not fit with any historical facts about Muslim and Jew interactions at that time")
IMHO the quote should be removed for lacking encyclopedic value being self-published hearsay. Refael Ackermann (talk) 13:08, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1. MW reports that he wrote these things and attributes to his Instagram
2. Do you have a reliable source criticizing the story’s historicity? Zanahary 15:27, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My mom. And not in the meme sense. My mom was born 1940 in Safed, her father lived there all his life, and my uncle still lives there. No Jewish holocaust refugees lived in Safed 45-48. Muslims preformed a massacre on the Jew in 1929. Muslims initiated civil war in 47 with a pogrom on the Jewish minority. They later evacuated on the order of their leader. Palmach garrison was 12 men with one mortar (Davidka).
Obviously I'm looking for more written sources.
Meanwhile since the primary (hearsay) source, IMHO it should be the only citation https://www.instagram.com/celebrities4palestine/reel/C7ATjyINY5Z/ Refael Ackermann (talk) 14:38, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That’s all quite interesting! Unfortunately, we can’t cite undocumented testimony as a primary source, nor can we synthesize unrelatedly published documents of history to present readers with an original analysis of any narrative’s comparative historicity—we have to follow reliable secondary sources. The best we have is MondoWeiss, which is not good. Maybe there’s a discussion to be had about removing the story altogether.
As for removing the MW source, this argument would have us remove every secondary report from Wikipedia. There is no reason to do so. Zanahary 18:46, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oral history is a valid form of historical documentantion, especially when it comes to oppressed people who were not able to preserve physical history, or did not have the institutional power to make their voices heard. it does still need to be treated with skeptisism of course, but that is when we can turn to historians like ilan pappe who have documented so many stories like the hadid's and rafael's. this is how you do social history. Theoisnotalive (talk) 06:51, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We aren't social historians, we are an encyclopedia. We cannot cite unpublished oral accounts directly. Zanahary 06:54, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
it being a majority arab population city doesnt mean that his family wasn't still expelled from the area; it is still within israel's borders. this is despite the fact that it was initially within the arab state border under the partition plan. israel wanted the city, and in order to do that and make room for jewish settlers they expelled significant amounts of palestinians from their homes. the fact that israel failed to achieve a majority jewish demographic doesn't change this history.
you can read about it in the wikipedia article: Nazareth#Israeli period Theoisnotalive (talk) 06:49, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]