Talk:Milos Raonic/Archive 1

Archive 1

Ethnicity

Did not find any source confirming his Montenegrin ethnicity.--166.32.193.81 (talk) 16:59, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Place of birth does not quite do it for ya, huh? http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Ra/M/Milos-Raonic.aspx Sideshow Bob 10:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

This should be quite enough then - http://www.montenegro-canada.com/articles/article/7699190/151586.htm Sideshow Bob 10:45, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Place of birth in a country that did not exist at the time does not qualify as citizenship. The second article you linked just repeats the 2011 AO interview that has been linked throughout the article and only refers to him as a Canadian, translated article here. Not that I'm contesting that he might be ethinically Montenegrin or of Serbian ethnicity but until a legitimate article or paper is linked because of its contentious nature it cannot be added. Secondly if people keep changing the language we will just put it to Serbo-Croatian language because that is the language root. Serbian and Montenegrin are just peel offs of that language and Montenegrin language is new link and as such have just decided on new literary forms. Differing on these language forms is no different than saying that is Canadian English, British English, American English, Australian English, etc. Therefore if it changes one more time I will be changing it to its root pronunciation of Serbo-Croatian. Krazytea(talk) 20:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

For Serbian names are here still use the Serbian language, and for the people of Montenegro Montenegrin. View another person's.--Aca Srbin (talk) 18:10, 25 January 2011 (CET)

So what we need then is a link that he is politically connected to Montenegro so that the language can be defined in the way. With credible sources please. The only thing we know is his family moved from what is now Montenegro and his family lives there now. When Raonic left that country it was the SFR Yugoslavia so he has no political connection to Montenegro, at least that I have seen stated. The question is then in regards to his ethnicity and I've see suggestions to either but nothing concrete. So what we need are credible sources stating clearly one or the other. Personal research or opinion does not count towards an issue as contentious as post-Yugoslavian politics. Krazytea(talk) 18:47, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

You may want to read the following... http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?p=10772443 Norum 16:58, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Language Root - Further Discussion

So here are the issues on the root language pronunciation of Raonic's name. We currently have it listed as Serbo-Croatian for two reasons.

1.) The country he immigrated from which was the SFR Yugoslavia used this as their official language. 2.) Serbo-Croatian is the root or Macro Language for the grouping of all the Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, and Montenegrin languages. All four of these are in fact their own language groups of the Serbo-Croatian language, they all do exist politically, and it can be argued that these four language groups are all the same group. However the Serbo-Croatian language was divided politically and ethnically along these lines, whether they are different languages or one and the same isn't the argument here and I think we can all agree that if some official sources (note the plural) that he is of one ethnicity or political national affiliation or another we can assume that is the root language, until then it has to stay at the macro root because of the lack of succinct alternative (we do not know the official ethnicity).

So in order for us to officially establish his ethnicity we need to discover what his nationality or ethnicity is, of which we have two clues stating different things. Raonic's ATP profile lists his two languages as Serbian and English, this might lead us to believe that he might be of the Serbian language BUT it is only one source and requires more sources to verify it of which I have found none. The second clue we have is that in his 2011 Australian Open interview he refers to himself as Montenegrin which would suggest a political affiliation to that country, though it is not official. Now I'm not going to debate whether Montenegrin language is different than Serbian or not this is not the forum for that, but the reality of the situation is that it is that country's official language and unless his Serbian ethnicity is substantiated it could be argued that Montenegrin is his official language.

Now because of the lack of clarity on the issue we are left with two weakly disputable facts which in my opinion would lead us to label Raonic as Serbo-Croatian root because it was his root language upon leaving the country, and as a Canadian he would not apply to a political affiliation to any other country, based on the international view then the listing of his language would be Serbo-Croatian or SBC such as how the U.N. refers to these issues. I'm open to more thoughts and discussion here however. Krazytea(talk) 14:29, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Again, For Serbian names are here still use the Serbian language, and for the people from Montenegro Montenegrin. View another person's. There is little difference between all these languages, and Montenegrin is the official language of Montenegro. I did not say that I like it, but these are facts. --Aca Srbin (talk) 09:31, 14 February 2011 (CET)

The Montenegrin language may be the official one in Montenegro, but according to the 2011 census - Serbian language is more popular in that country: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro#Linguistic_structure

Raonic's ATP profile lists Serbian - not Montenegrin. In addition, in his interview in Serbian, he is talking about Serbian as his native language: http://www.b92.net/sport/tenis/vesti.php?yyyy=2011&mm=06&dd=20&nav_id=520200 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.19.176.139 (talk) 19:04, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Performance timeline

Two Points

1) Isn't listing every 250/500 level tournament way too listcrufty/not necessary. I can't find a specific guideline on WP:TENNIS but I was under the impression that only the 1000 level/Masters/Super 9 (whatever you want to call the top below the majors) were to be included in the performance timeline lists. Especially as 250/500 level tournaments change names, locations and ranks frequently, and as not being mandatory, there really is no reason to expect a player to show up to every one.

2) I don't think the flags are necessary on the performance boxes. They tend to make it look cluttered. Most of the locations, especially the 1000 level, are in big cities easily known, and if not, they are wiki linked anyway.

Other than that I'm impressed by the way this article has been greatly improved and expanded in the last few weeks. Ravendrop 07:17, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Section Lengths

I have a concern about the lengths of his annual "biography summaries". The length of these is far too long in my opinion, especially the 2009, 2010 years. These should be summarised into a shorter length, should be readable, informative, and contain only essential information. Raonic's results from insignificant tournaments where he lost early in rounds to no particular player of note real does not contribute to the article and the mass of information itself could scare people away more than anything. Evidence contributing to this shows that no edits are made to those areas of the article and instead it is the statistical and current season that are edited and refined the most, the quick hit areas of the article if you will.

My point is that unless somebody clarifies as to why these should be including in the article I will be purging them down to essential information only. Cheers, Krazytea(talk) 02:00, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I have to agree with you there. Comparing 2004 in Lleyton Hewitt's were he was near the top of the world, to Raonic's 2009 where he was struggling in ITF events, its clear there is far too much detail in this page. I'd also recommend cutting down on the raw scores, all those numbers begin to blend together and become and eyesore. Ravendrop 02:14, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

As for the numbers I tend to edit them down after the buzz from the recent events is over, such as with the first 3 paragraphs of 2011. I'm just not too sure how much to trim down, but I thing there is a ton of irrelevant material in there. Krazytea(talk) 03:01, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

There also seems to me a general pandemic among tennis biographies where this rather redundant material has added up. Maria Sharapova's seems to be something that is summarised appropriately. Krazytea(talk) 03:05, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Removed a considerable ton of material date marked today February 22, 2011, if anyone is protesting the removal of this material please go back to this date to retrieve it. Krazytea(talk) 21:10, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Why material is being removed - If any of the material is being removed it is because it lacks notability, the point of these articles are not to write pinpoint play by play biographies, but rather to highlight the most notable events and victories. Insignificant events where Raonic did not perform well early, or lost to other low ranked players qualifies as insignificant to me, though I am open to discussion. We do not want to scare readers away from Wikipedia with huge blocks of text and make this material relevant only to those interested in the topic. The point of this is as an encyclopedia and to highlight the key points only, we do not need to fill in all the blanks, we are not supposed to be writing a book. Cheers, Krazytea(talk) 19:35, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 19:42, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

I won t revert 2010 again, btw. I do think until Raonic has had a couple years on tour at the top, as he is very likely to, there is not the need to shorten the sections (and Hewitt's 2004 should be expanded, btw), and that the way that 2010 has been shortened gives the wrong impression, one that he was inactive for stretches here and there - some brief mentioning of poor results too is necessary (but victories should get more treatment, granted). I will at some point edit it where it is at its current length but not with these gaps. And the mention of his withdrawal from Acapulco is noteworthy now - it can be edited out in the weeks and months ahead when it's no longer soMayumashu (talk) 02:49, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

There is still far too much information, especially in the ITF tournaments, most of this information can be summed up in one sentence or less, but instead it rambles on for entire paragraphs. If someone did not play for several months this can be added in a sentence or two as well, whether it be for injury or rest. Large gaps in the information can then be seen as the person of interest in the article not accomplishing anything noteworthy over that span. Information added should be noteworthy, interesting, and readable for all people not just those interested in the subject of the article. I still haven't seen a good case presented or a seconder of Mayumashu's proposal. Krazytea(talk) 20:04, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree that some sections look too long to some readers. However, this is justifiable at the moment as the article deals with a relatively unknown athlete whose career is rapidly evolving; hence I can imagine public interest to his early years and to his performance even at the minor tournaments. There are relatively little publications on the subject in the mass media, hence the need for more detail here. The article seems to be quite popular (it moved to the top of Google search list), so I would exercise caution in purging info from it. Perhaps it should be done at the end of each year based on the overall performance. Andrcan(talk) 19:20, 01 March 2011 (UTC)

Good article?

As this page grows bigger and has drawn the attention of more and more editors I think it would be time for a peer review. Everyone agrees? Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 18:31, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Support Krazytea(talk) 19:50, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Peer review extract

Please consider these while editing/improving: (Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 08:54, 7 March 2011 (UTC), orginally by Finetooth)

• I would spell out as well as abbreviate Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) in the lead. Ditto for International Tennis Federation (ITF).

• "He is currently ranked... " - Generally, instead of using words like "currently", "now", and "today", which change meaning as time passes, it's better to use a more specific word or phrase such as "as of 2011".

• Anything like "No. 37" that would look odd if separated on computer screens by line-break should be nailed together with a no-break code. I fixed the first instance, in the lead, so you can see what it looks like in edit mode. WP:NBSP explains how this works. "Group 4", "Croatia F1", "No. 11" are other examples of combinations that need nbsps.

Junior tennis career

• The entire section lacks any citations to reliable sources, yet the information is filled with statistics and is not common knowledge. Where does the information come from? Generally, except perhaps for the lead, any sets of statistics, any unusual claims, any direct quotations, and every paragraph needs a citation to a reliable source. Seeing much more of the same in lower sections, I will stop at this point.

• Please make sure that the existing text includes no copyright violations, plagiarism, or close paraphrasing. For more information on this please see Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches. (This is a general warning given in view of previous problems that have risen over copyvios.)

Miloš Raonić

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:23, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Milos Raonic → Miloš Raonić – 21:18, 31 August 2011 (UTC) I think we should move article to his native name Miloš Raonić. The same situation is with other sportpersons who are competing for country where their origin is not (Jelena Dokić, Zlatan Ibrahimović, Nikola Karabatić, Bojan Krkić, Aleks Marić, Csaba Szilágyi...). Raonić compete under the Canadian flag, but he has a Montenegrin, or Serbian, or Yugoslavian orgin. His native full name is Miloš Raonić and we usually use the native names.--Aca Srbin (talk) 14:00, 31 Augusy 2011 (CEST)

• Oppose The subject seems to have spent no more than 3 years of his life in his birth country, lives permanently in Canana, and is likely to have never used diacritics in his name (unless can be demonstrated otherwise). --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 22:47, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
• Comment, There is interview on Serbian: [1] Raonić says: I am a Montenegrin, it is important in my culture and after moving to Canada, the parents talked with me only on Serbian language because that it would not be forgotten. It's really important to them, my brother and sister now live in Podgorica, and I try to go back there as much as possible because my family are there. He lives in Canada, but they still talk and write in Serbian. His native and originally name is Miloš Raonić no matter where he lives. --Aca Srbin (talk) 01:15, 01 September 2011 (CEST)
• Oppose. No diacritics in this name as it is given by Los Angeles Times, Live Tennis Guide, New York Times, BBC News, or Toronto Star. Kauffner (talk) 03:14, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose No reliable sources use diacriticals - in addition to Kauffner's list, you can add this and this as well as many others. Absconded Northerner (talk) 09:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
• Comment, Reliable sources in English never used a diacritice, but for articles we still using native names (Nemanja Vidić: Goal.com, Jelena Janković: WTA,Ana Ivanović: WTA...). I cited examples and for sportpersons who are competing for country where their origin is not.--Aca Srbin (talk) 11:55, 1 September 2011 (CEST)

  This is incorrect. The ATP and ITF sites do sometimes use diacritics for place names... just not for most player names. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:25, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose - spelling rules of the country she represents in sports should take precedent over whatever the spelling is used by her parents in their native language. Vidić, Janković and Ivanović all represent Serbia internationally. Guys like Ibrahimović and Krkić are really rare exceptions (and in their cases the spelling with diacritics is evidently in use by reliable sources printed in their sporting nation's language, unlike here). Timbouctou (talk) 21:15, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. Canadian subject from early age, no more links to Montenegro. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 22:33, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Interview on Serbian: I' am half-half; Finally, I am a Montenegrin but I play for Canada; Both states are important to me; After moving to Canada, the parents talked with me only on Serbian...--Aca Srbin (talk) 00:41, 02 September 2011 (CEST)
• Oppose - The ATP, ITF, and all other tennis organizations spell it in standard English without diacritics. He is notable for one thing...tennis. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:25, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Weak Lead Picture

I appreciate using a reflective, not action, shot, but I've seen a lot of pictures of Milos, and this one does not look "like him", and it is pretty weak. I'm scared to death of Wiki's pic policy. Can someone with the right team of lawyers put up a better shot of him? Billyshiverstick (talk) 17:28, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

fer chrissakes, just ask him!

All this chat about nationality, language, and diacritics reveals a flaw in the Wiki process we need to address.

Newspapers often insert their own bias when writing names, and labelling people's identity. Citing a newspaper article is not proof of any of the above, unless the article actually quotes Milos himself, talking about how he identifies himself, or is clear that it says "many Canadians are proud of him as a Canadian" etc.

I think there should be a way that people can edit their own wiki article - I know, I know - "original research"

or Wiki Editors can ask people'

as long as they clearly source it as themselves they should be able to say "he identifies himself as Canadian, although he was born in Montenergo" etc and set preferences for how their name is spelled and pronounced.

Notre Dame University pronounces its own name wrong - but hey, its "their name"! cheers Billyshiverstick (talk) 17:40, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Greg Rusedski

I realize that folks like to revise history, but Rusedski reached number 4, on October 6th, 1997; same as Milos Raonic. Rusedski was born in Montreal and thus a Canadian tennis player. Milos is neither the highest ranked Canadian in the open era, nor is he the only one to reach the top 10 in the open era. I've removed two false statements. http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Ru/G/Greg-Rusedski.aspx 162.156.117.253 (talk) 21:03, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

The ATP only considers players' present nationalities, or who they represent, to be relevant. Rusedski was born in Montreal, but from 1995 onwards he represented Great Britain, and so his world #4 ranking does not count as 'the highest Canadian ever'. Milos Raonic was born in Montenegro, but he has represented Canada his entire life. Many players have changed nationalities (Rodionova, Lendl etc) and the ATP considers their statistics after their switch to be for their new country, if that explains it well enough. Iheartthestrals (talk) 17:29, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

"The ATP only considers players' present nationalities, or who they represent, to be relevant"

Rusedski is still a Canadian tennis player, because he was born in Canada. This is a fact. I'm sorry for Milos, but he needs to reach 3 and supercede Rusedski to actually achieve something that Canadians have not. Now, if you want to revise it to being the highest player officially playing for Canada, then that would be fine, but that is not what was written. I've, once again, striken all the false 'achievements' for Milos. 162.156.117.253 (talk) 09:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

What does "Canadian tennis player" mean?

The debate here along with the minor edit-war appears to have two sides:

• Some argue that Raonic is the first Canadian tennis player in the top 10, first Canadian tennis player in the top 5, highest ranked Canadian tennis player, etc.
• Others maintain that Rusedski owns these claims by virtue of his Canadian birth, and the fact that his ascent to world number 4 (and other career accomplishments) predated Raonic.

I think this debate hinges on the meaning of the phrase "Canadian tennis player" or, more broadly, the meaning of the phrase "top Canadian" or "first Canadian" (omitting the words "tennis player") in an article about tennis players. To determine this, let's examine some context:

• The primary "team-like" affiliation of all tennis players is to their national tennis association (or federation).
  • This national association affiliation takes the place of team affiliations for athletes in many team sports, such as baseball, basketball, or hockey. This is important since tennis is fundamentally an individual sport.
• Most tennis players have a fairly strong sense of affiliation to their national association, through which they receive:
  • Financial support, coaching, and other assistance (often critical in early years).
  • Nomination for events like the Olympics, Davis Cup, Fed Cup, the Hopman Cup.
  • Wildcards to certain events, like majors or national tournaments.
• At any one time, a player has only one national association affiliation.
  • It is not a trivial matter to switch national association affiliations. It's a process!
  • The factors above (financial support, coaching, international events) are often cited when players switch.
• A player's national affiliation is emphasized heavily through the sport of tennis.
  • The International Tennis Federation (ITF), Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP), and Women's Tennis Association (WTA) feature these national affiliations heavily on their websites and all other publications. This is not only on "profile pages" for each individual player, but through all statistical pages, tournament draws, articles, etc. Nearly every instance of the player's name is associated with a flag emphasizing that national affiliation.
  • Broadcasters almost unanimously reflect the national affiliation of each player, both in on-screen graphics and in their dialogue.
  • Wikipedia reflects this as well. Every tournament draw, statistics table, etc. pairs each player name with their national affiliation flag.

For all of the reasons listed above, phrases like "Canadian tennis player" or just "Canadian" in the context of a tennis article are synonyms for "a tennis player whose national affiliation is to Tennis Canada". This would be the same for any other country.

On the other hand, "Canadian tennis player" does not mean any of the following:

• "tennis player born in Canada"
• "tennis player living in Canada"
• "tennis player who plays taxes in Canada"
• "tennis player with family roots in Canada"
• "tennis player with citizenship in Canada (sole, dual, or otherwise)"

In light of this, within tennis articles:

• Milos Raonic is the highest ranked Canadian tennis player in history. (Explicitly states "tennis player")
• Milos Raonic is also the first Canadian to play in a grand slam semi-final in the Open Era. ("tennis player" is implied)
• Greg Rusedski was a Canadian tennis player until mid-1995. At that time, he was ranked no. 47 in the world. All his achievements up until that point (e.g. his ATP titles in Newport 1993 and Seoul 1995) should be described as having been achieved by a Canadian tennis player.
• Greg Rusedski became a British tennis player in mid-1995 until the end of his tennis career. All his achievements from that point forward (including his rise to world no. 4, his finals appearance at the 1997 US Open, his victory at the 1998 Paris Masters event, etc.) are as a British tennis player.

Major, mainstream media (both inside Canada and outside) all agree, as shown in the following table:

Source	Quote	Comment
CBC Sports	February 13, 2011 In 2011, "... Raonic became the first Canadian to win an ATP Tour title since 1995..."	Correct. "... since 1995..." refers to Rusedski's victory at Seoul Open in April 1995, just before his switch.
Tennis Canada	February 28, 2011 "Earlier this month, Raonic became the first Canadian since 1995 to capture an ATP title at the SAP Open in San Jose, California."
The Globe and Mail	September 1, 2012 "Milos Raonic advanced to the quarter-finals of the U.S. Open ... Raonic is the first Canadian male to get this far at Flushing Meadows since 1988, when Montreal’s Martin Laurendeau did it."	Correct. Rusedski only reached the first round at the US Open as a Canadian tennis player; he reached the final as a British tennis player in 1997.
BBC Sports	August 11, 2013 "[Raonic's] victory ensured he will be his country's first representative in the top 10 of the ATP world rankings."	Correct. Rusedski reached the top 10 as a British tennis player in 1997.
Sports Illustrated	August 13, 2013 "The ATP top 10 also welcomes a new member into the fold. 22-year-old Milos Raonic becomes the youngest member of the Top 10 after making his first ATP Masters 1000 final in Montreal. Raonic, ranked right at No. 10, is the first Canadian man to ever break into the top 10."
Tennis.com	May 30, 2014 "Eighth-seeded Milos Raonic became the first Canadian man in history to reach the fourth round at the French Open..."	Correct. Rusedski reached the third round of the French Open in 1994 as a Canadian tennis player. He reached the 4th round in 1999 as a British tennis player.
ATP	August 10, 2015 "Heading into the Rogers Cup in Montreal, World No. 10 Milos Raonic is primed to do something no other Canadian man has achieved: win 200 singles matches on the ATP World Tour."	Correct. Rusedski had 436 career victories, but only 62 as a Canadian tennis player. (2 in 1992 + 16 in 1993 + 21 in 1994 + 23 in 1995 before switching)
New York Times	January 29, 2016 "[Andy Murray] had more to contend with against Raonic, who was playing in the semifinals of a Grand Slam tournament for only the second time, and aiming to be the first Canadian man to reach the final of a major."	Correct. Rusedski reached the US Open final as a British tennis player in 1997.
ESPN	January 29, 2016 "No Canadian man has ever reached the final of a tennis Grand Slam (Eugenie Bouchard was the first woman to do so at Wimbledon in 2014), but for a while Friday, it looked as if Raonic would become the first."

Saskoiler (talk) 17:35, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Of course Tennis Canada wants to whitewash Rusedski. Unfortunately for Milos he remains the most exemplary Canadian player. Your statement that "Players born in Canada do not count as Canadian born players is a statement not found in any of your sources. 162.156.117.253 (talk) 21:55, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

In three edits yesterday (1; 2; 3), you've deleted a number of statements. As shown in the numbered list below, all of these deleted statements are verified by reliable sources. Further, those sources are consistent with numerous other reliable sources as shown in the table above. (See both WP:VERIFY and WP:SOURCES.) Deleting such statements is counter-productive. If you want to discuss something, do it here. Please refrain from deleting sourced statements as a means of expressing your personal point of view.

1. Lead: "His career-high world No. 4 ranking is the highest by a Canadian man or woman."
   • This is verified by the Toronto Star, which states: "It’s the highest ranking ever for a Canadian singles player, besting Quebec’s Eugenie Bouchard, who reached fifth on the women’s list last October." (This source is cited in the article.)
2. Lead: "He became the highest-ranked Canadian male ever on February 21, 2011 when he reached world No. 37."
   and
   2011: "In doing so, he became the highest-ranked Canadian male ever."
   • These are verified by CBC Sports, which states: "The 20-year-old ... reach No. 37... Raonic becomes the highest ranked Canadian singles player in the history of the ATP." (This source was cited in the article, before being deleted yesterday.)
3. 2013: "He became the first Canadian player ... to enter the top 10."
   • This is verified by Sports Illustrated, which states in the headline "Milos Raonic first Canadian in the top 10" and in the article "Raonic, ranked right at No. 10, is the first Canadian man to ever break into the top 10." (This source is cited in the article.)
4. Lead: " He has more ATP World Tour titles and finals appearances in the Open Era than all other Canadian men combined."
   • This is verified by the Tennis Canada Media Guide, page 20. According to the guide (which lists Canadian ATP achievements), Raonic has 7 titles (he got his 8th this January), Rusedski has 2, and no other player has any. (This source is cited in the article.)

Saskoiler (talk) 22:49, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Every one of your sources is actually incorrect, and for the reason already documented. I've left the correct statements that Milos was the first to reach the semifinals of the Australian Open, and the Quarterfinals of the French open, and the Wimbledon final.

Rusedksi, by the ATP sources:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/greg-rusedski/r237/bio

Was a Canadian tennis player.

Rusedski - won 15 titles, and reached 12 other finals.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/greg-rusedski/r237/titles-and-finals

This is greater than Raonic's total.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/greg-rusedski/r237/rankings-history

Rusedski - reached world number 4, from the period of time from May 25th of 1998, to June 15th of 1998, and again on the week of October 6th 1997.

Given that my source is actually correct, in showing Rusedski's true ranking - the Canadian press releases are incorrect, and should be taken down, because they all make the assumption that Rusedski is not Canadian. There may come a time when Raonic supercedes Rusedski's achievements, until then, he's not the best. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:FACB:DA00:B05F:FCBD:9ABD:E0DE (talk) 13:03, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

2016 Article Cleanup

It has been almost 5 years (see above) since the last major effort to improve the quality of the Milos Raonic article. His career has progressed substantially since then, and it is time for another systematic update.

I've reviewed the current state of the article, and used this to create a plan for improvements. Because this is very lengthy, I've created a subpage: Talk:Milos_Raonic/2016_article_cleanup . I welcome feedback from other editors with ideas to improve this article. Saskoiler (talk) 18:54, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Pronunciation of his name

We have two citations for the pronunciation of his name, both pointing to the same video (being hosted in different places). This isn't really necessary as it simply clutters the lead sentence.

I'm removing one, but will give its URL here as a backup in case the other ever becomes dead.

• Removing: http://vimeo.com/19844359
• Leaving: http://americaneg.vo.llnwd.net/o16/SVSE/sapopen/2011/20110209_bts1-raonic.wmv

Saskoiler (talk) 22:53, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Milos Raonic/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: 333-blue (talk · contribs) 10:34, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

I am about to review this article soon. 333-blue 10:34, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	I don't know what "[]" means, as no URLs are given.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Use Candian English, as per MOS:TIES. Milos Raonic is a Canadian.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Perfect!
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	It seems like that the article has a lot of reliable sources and correct citations. It looks pretty good.
	2c. it contains no original research.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Very focussing on the topic.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	It looks good.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	The history seems quite terrible, but almost pass, consider waiting for a while.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.	Waiting for a couple of days, mainly the history needs to be stabler.

Discussion and resolution of issues

Re: Canadian English

• I have fixed two non-Canadian spellings ("color"-->"colour"; "criticised" --> "criticized"). I've run through a spell-checker, and it didn't find any additional mistakes. If you notice others, please let me know and I will fix them too. I have also tagged the article as Canadian English to avoid future confusion. Saskoiler (talk) 18:02, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Now, it looks OK. 333-blue 23:13, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Re: I don't know what "[]" means, as no URLs are given.

• I am not sure what this comment is referring to. There are no instances of empty square brackets "[]" in the article. Could you please explain in more detail what issue you are seeing? Thanks. Saskoiler (talk) 18:10, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

...he reflected that the loss was "probably the most heartbroken [he has] felt...

In the sentence above: "he has". 333-blue 23:07, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

And another one:

its "individuality and [because he] felt [he] could train more alone and on a ball machine with [his] dad".[19] Raonic

In the sentence above: "because he"/"he"/"his". 333-blue 23:13, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Oh! It is an accepted practice to minimally change the words of a quotation to ensure grammatical continuity within the article sentence. In the first example cited above, the original words spoken by Raonic were "Probably the most heartbroken I've felt on court." But, it would not read properly if the article said "he reflected that the loss was "probably the most heartbroken I've felt on court."" So, we use square brackets to make it clear that we've made a slight change: to replace "I've" with "[he has]". The meaning of the quotation is not altered, and the important words (heartbroken, felt on court) are preserved. The manual of style describes this briefly in the first couple sentences under the subheading "Original Wording" at MOS:QUOTE. Saskoiler (talk) 01:43, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Oh! I got it. Thank you very much for giving me this info. Cheers! 333-blue 08:34, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

I will look at this article for a while to see if it becomes stabler. If it does, it will be passed. 333-blue 08:34, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

It sure looks stabler, so it is passed. 333-blue 09:15, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Early and personal life

Shouldn't these two be separated in two sections, as it is the case with 99% other biographic articles? Sideshow Bob 12:16, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

My guess is that the sections were combined because Raonic doesn't have that much material for a separate personal life section other than his charitable work, which has its own subsection. I've seen this done in a few other articles so that one section or the other doesn't end up extremely short. Giants2008 (Talk) 18:26, 16 April 2017 (UTC)