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Before going any further, please understand what a reliable source is, which is not defined as YouTube, any of this group's websites or Reddits, and especially not sites where all posters are anonymous. Any sources which do not meet RS are removed on sight and any talk page requests asking for us to add ineligible sources will also be closed or removed.


Semi-protected edit request on 8 August 2024

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CLOSED
Closing as 76 has continued to respond to a closed thread and is now well into WP:POINT/WP:IDHT territory. Nate • (chatter) 19:33, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Change 'was' to 'is' in the following line:

'Million Dollar Extreme (MDE) was an American sketch comedy troupe known for their alt-right and white…' Stoogeburger25 (talk) 21:33, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. CloakedFerret (talk) 21:52, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Look for the 'WORLD PEACE 2 "MICRO SNEAK PEAK" TRAILER' on YouTube. Stoogeburger25 (talk) 00:38, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Uploaded ten months ago, not current, and as re-iterated multiple times YouTube is not a reliable source. If I could create an auto-responder for this specific talk page I would because everyone seems to forget that with every single edit request. Nate • (chatter) 16:09, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How does WP:ABOUTSELF not apply here? DvcDeBlvngis (talk) 04:19, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Points 1 and 5 for one; in over a year and a half there has not been any kind of outside sourcing for anything outside their own promotion. At the very least there should at least be a couple neutral sources, but none have been presented and its incumbent on the editor to present one. Also OPs comeback was this so at this point I refuse to assume good faith with them. Nate • (chatter) 20:43, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your arguments do not invalidate these points. For the first point, I posted multiple clips of the troupe speaking and performing together. This does nothing but cement the claim that they are still performing as a group.
As for the fifth point, the article is not predicated on this claim. This was a simple present-tense change to a single word. Stoogeburger25 (talk) 22:48, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please provide a reliable source that supports the current text. "The group has been inactive since the cancellation of their show World Peace in 2016" is totally unsourced. This is just unjustifiable status quo bias dressed up in Wikipediese. Seventysixtrombones (talk) 05:48, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed a personal attack by the above editor and given them a 31 hour block for that and other PAs. Note that both the OP and this editor are new. The OP has never posted elsewhere and Seventysixtrombones's first post was here. Doug Weller talk 07:37, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to remove the unsourced sentence in the lede, as it appears nobody can find RS saying the group is inactive. Seventysixtrombones (talk) 04:02, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, reverted. Unless you have a neutral source, you are not to change article content. Read WP:RS before editing again. Nate • (chatter) 17:48, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No source justifies the sentence. Leaving it up doesn't make sense. Read WP:RS before responding to me again. Seventysixtrombones (talk) 04:37, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As @Bishonen: inferred, you've clearly been here before and any further disruption will lead to a further block as you refuse to get the point and are now into the childish game of copying my responses instead of complying with policy. This was closed a week ago and that you continue to persist beyond that without presenting a new source is tiresome. @Doug Weller: Nate • (chatter) 19:33, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Brother, I haven't been here before; as I said, my account is new and my first. Please get that WP:POINT through your head. Also, no, the discussion that was closed a week ago pertained to the troupe's alleged notoriety for white nationalist fans, not to their (incorrect) claimed inactive status, a claim for which no source currently exists. I understand these are complex matters, but you're an experienced editor and it shouldn't be too hard to consider two distinct matters at once. Seventysixtrombones (talk) 19:40, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm done responding to someone who thinks calling me 'brother' or an intellectual slur without asking if it's okay is proper decorum (along with being unable to lay off the LLM). Have a nice day. Nate • (chatter) 19:45, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm done responding to someone who thinks calumniating me a as sockpuppet or an LLM-bot without asking if it's true is proper decorum (along with being unable to distinguish between the group's inactivity and their fanbase's politics). Have a lovely evening. Seventysixtrombones (talk) 19:52, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
...Honestly, this is out of my league, but please listen to him, and drop the stick. This is getting repetitive to me. mer764KCTV5 / Cospaw the Wolfo (He/Him | t • c) 19:57, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Was/Is + Dodging Epistemic Collapse

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Looks like they did a show in D.C. on Aug 22, 2024.

I think we can probably agree that eventbrite.com "has a reputation for fact-checking and reliability" in regard to selling tickets to shows that exist.

Talk page first because this is obviously already a topic of discussion.

ClifV (talk) 16:11, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Issuing an IPO has nothing at all to do with fact checking and accuracy, and the ticket listing is a WP:PRIMARY source for a single event which lacks context. Without a good source for their recent activity, there's not much to say about this. Grayfell (talk) 18:36, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What context are you looking for here other than, as stated in the source, Sam Hyde, Nick Rochefort, and Charles Carroll performed under the name Million Dollar Extreme under a month ago? ClifV (talk) 18:40, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You need a secondary source, plain and simple. I went looking. I don't see one. I don't actually see any recent reliable sources that mention the group as a separate entity - the sources I'm seeing only use the phrase "Million Dollar Extreme" as a shorthand descriptor of the show "Million Dollar Extreme Presents: World Peace". THis raises the possibility that, while the show is notable enough for an article (it has one), the term "Million Dollar Extreme" may not be. If this article were presented for deletion, and the deletion discussion proposed that this content be merged into the show's article, I would support that. Fred Zepelin (talk) 18:50, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Concur with Fred; if someone actually wrote about the show neutrally, there we go, that's acceptable. A show's ticket site, as I have said many times in the past with removing their Gumroad as they refuse to bother with a regular website with an about us page, is not acceptable in itself as an RS. And in August 2024, surely someone out there would write about this performance, unless they required everyone to throw their phones in Yonder pouches and required an NDA to watch the show under threat of a lawsuit if they revealed anything about it, but there are no sources outside that one (or RSS aggregators just going right back to the same page) to be found. Nate • (chatter) 19:46, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll buy it. I did a quick run through of recent sources featuring Sam Hyde and the group doesn't get mentioned except in the past tense. Looks like the recent show was a one-off. ClifV (talk) 20:14, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to (have) exist(ed)[1]. I was not aware of the group before this little episode, but given that most of their notability seems to stem from the show I don't think a merge would be unwarranted.
ClifV (talk) 19:54, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"White Supremacist" Short Description

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@Grayfell

You need reliable sources that describe the subject as white supremacist to include it in the short description.

Additionally, the short description should "as far as possible... use universally accepted facts that will not be subject to rapid change, avoiding anything that could be understood as controversial, judgemental, or promotional".

ClifV (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is well-sourced and treated by those sources as a defining trait. Wikipedia isn't a platform for public relations. Grayfell (talk) 18:37, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which source(s) describes it as white supremacist? ClifV (talk) 18:38, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you are unable to read the sources in the article that follow that description in the body, then you should not be editing the article. Grayfell is not here to be your Wikipedia tutor. Fred Zepelin (talk) 18:45, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which sources were you citing?

1. Sam Hyde Speaks: Meet the Man Behind Adult Swim’s Canceled “Alt-Right” Comedy Show (Exclusive)
  • "Prior to series pickup last May, they already had amassed a sizable following, particularly in the “alt-right” online community that has championed white supremacy"

2. Adult Swim Talent Want The Network To Cancel Its Alt-Right Comedy Show
  • "In these forums, thousands of fans gather to decode World Peace's complex, if winking, symbology, which many devotees are convinced expresses an anti-progressive, pro-white ideology."

3. The Underground Neo-Nazi Promo Campaign Behind Adult Swim’s Alt-Right Comedy Show
  • "Evidence strongly suggests the disturbing text is the work of Andrew “weev” Auernheimer, the notorious white nationalist hacker and troll"
  • "Between two large swastikas, the flyer exhorts white men to 'join us in the struggle for global white supremacy.'"
  • "Corporate media tends not to be an object of affection amongst white supremacists."

10. Reddit’s QAnon ban points to how it’s tracking toxic communities
  • "The week after last year’s violent white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, and two months before it would implement its current content guidelines, Reddit banned the subreddit /r/Physical_Removal."

11. Reddit Banned A Page That Trafficked In White Supremacist Content, But The Problem Is Much Bigger
  • "Before it was shuttered, the /r/milliondollarextreme subreddit had more than 43,000 subscribers, making it one of the more active Reddit communities where white supremacist and white nationalist content was shared."
  • "Hyde has also been linked to well-known white supremacists. He reportedly donated $5,000 to the neo-Nazi Daily Stormer website in 2017 and was photographed giving a Nazi salute alongside the hacker white supremacist Andrew 'Weev' Auernheimer."
  • "The show Million Dollar Extreme Presents: World Peace was canceled after six episodes amid scrutiny over the group's ties to the alt-right, which started as an online subculture hostile to political correctness but has since coalesced into an explicitly white nationalist movement."
  • "Despite Reddit's crackdown on Million Dollar Extreme, many other subreddits promoting white supremacy, white nationalism, and fascism are easily accessible on Reddit, which is the fifth most popular website in the United States, according to Alexa rankings."
  • "In response to questions about Reddit's approach to white supremacist content on the site, the spokesperson referred BuzzFeed News to a New Yorker article published earlier this year, which examined the company's efforts to detoxify the platform while retaining its anything-goes ethos."

14. The Battle Over Adult Swim’s Alt-Right TV Show
  • "But Million Dollar Extreme, which premiered in August, is also from the mind of Sam Hyde, an unapologetic member of the alt-right. Hyde crafts his comedy with the goal of shocking his young, liberal, Millennial audience while simultaneously appealing to like-minded members of a white-nationalist movement that generally supports Donald Trump."
  • "Beyond that, of course, the whole enterprise seems cloaked in irony, which makes it easier for Hyde to dismiss any obvious connection to the white supremacy and extreme nationalism of the alt-right."

15. Adult Swim Cancels Controversial Show ‘Million Dollar Extreme’
  • "The sketch show was canceled after one season, airing just six episodes over the summer. Created by Sam Hyde, Charls Carroll and Nick Rochefort, the show immediately garnered criticism for controversial sketches – including one where Hyde wore blackface – while some of its promotional material featured language that seemed to nod to the white nationalist movement known as 'Alt-Right.'"
ClifV (talk) 19:49, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Grayfell
Are you able to read these messages and identify the source you're using as the basis for the short description?
ClifV (talk) 20:08, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have no interest in playing pedantic games in defense of neo-nazis. Do not ping me again on this or any other talk page. Grayfell (talk) 20:11, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Million Dollar Extreme is not mentioned in that article. ClifV (talk) 20:49, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What do we got folks?
ClifV (talk) 16:49, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is no "we" here. You should probably read WP:NONAZIS. The Wikipedia community, as Grayfell already told you, is not interested in editors that wish to defend neo-nazis. I assure you that your quest to whitewash this page will end in you being disappointed, at best. Fred Zepelin (talk) 04:48, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RFC: Should "white-supremacist" be included in the short description?

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Should the short description for the page include the label "white-supremacist"?

A review of the term as used by reliable sources cited on the page can be seen here. ClifV (talk) 16:17, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Responses

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  • No. Too specific. This sketch alluding to "The white man's burden" is one of the only related pieces of MDE comedy I can personally find. Others have much more varied viewpoints. Biohistorian15 (talk) 17:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • No. White supremacist excludes many policies and viewpoints of the far-right, and is not necessarily the primary issue for those who do espouse the idea. Even if the show does espouse the idea, there is no guarantee that that is the main message it is trying to get across (and according to Biohistorian15, there is only one sketch that pertains to the concept). It should be replaced by either "far-right" or "right-wing." Ships & Space(Edits) 19:17, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • No. The article and sources state that the community for the troupe had many white supremacists, not that the troupe itself was. At most, you can find sources describing it as "alt-right" but more often that not that label is applied to either Hyde himself or the specific show, World Peace. As Hyde was not the sole member of the troupe, and the troupe did not exist as a vehicle to primarily advance white supremacy, it would be misleading. DvcDeBlvngis (talk) 20:44, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, per the argument from Ships&Space, although I might add that it is probably safe to characterize the show as "alt-right", given its positions. Even if white supremacy was a position this show had, labeling it a such would under-generalize a wider array of positions (see how we discuss the ol'Pebblechuck, for ex.). Allan Nonymous (talk) 21:39, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alt-right comedy troupe would be more specific and probably more accurate. Fred Zepelin (talk) 20:09, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, per User:Fred Zepelin - SirBrahms (talk) 14:49, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • No. A description of alt-right is far more supported from the sources. Now, a reader is free to draw the conclusion on their own about the implications of being alt-right, but it shouldn't be our conclusion to draw. Like notability, I firmly believe notoriety is also not inherited. CoffeeCrumbs (talk) 08:47, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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