Talk:Meteorological history of Hurricane Dorian

B-class Review

 Done B1: References and Citations

• All sentences in the body are cited with reliable sources and have a similar format.

 Done B2: Coverage and accuracy

• All sections in the article cover the storm's meteorological history and records in a complete manner.

 Done B3: Structure

• The article has a lead as well as every section necessary to complete the coverage.

 Done B4: Grammar and style

• The Grammar and style of the article are of a semi-professional manner.

 Done B5: Supporting materials

• The article has more than enough images to satisfy a reader.

 Done B6: Accessibility

• The article is understandable, although somewhat more technical than a storm article as it is focused specifically on the meteorological history.

The article has been promoted to B-class based on the above review. Noah^Talk 01:07, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Interactive Map

I will be doing an interactive map for the article.. placing a preliminary map here. Noah^Talk 03:49, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

GAN Prep

• Lead: KN -  Done
• Origins and track through the Lesser Antilles: Noah -  Done
• Rapid intensification and peak intensity: KN -  Done
• Stalling over the Bahamas KN -  Done (merged into previous section)
• Northward turn, extratropical transition, and dissipation Noah -  Partly done
• Records Noah -  Done

@KN2731: I added a list here to keep track of the section TCRing and rewrites. Noah^Talk 23:43, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

TCR added in for the first section. I have to work again so I will do more later. Noah^Talk 02:07, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Progress update: merged stalling into RI/peak. Also something of note, NHC didn't mention a Marsh Harbour landfall in the TCR. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 10:26, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

I don't think anything needs done with records as I believe we included all the important ones. I will finish the rest of my last section tonight and then nominate the article for GA. Noah^Talk 21:58, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Meteorological history of Hurricane Dorian/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cyclonebiskit (talk · contribs) 20:13, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

First review in a long while, but I'll be checking over this article. Will post comments later today. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 20:13, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• The lead for an article this size should only be two paragraphs, comments below should help reduce the size.
• "The disturbance rapidly organized and became a tropical depression and then a tropical storm on August 24." — Not supported by TCR
  • Covered by previous sentence, should be fixed. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 15:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• "On August 26, Dorian passed over Barbados and entered the Caribbean Sea, then made landfall in St. Lucia the next day." — The article uses UTC for dates so this would be on the same day (01:30 and 11:00 UTC, respectively).
  • Fixed ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 15:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• "Initially predicted to move west-northwest and strike Hispaniola, Dorian's track instead shifted further north and east as the storm neared the Greater Antilles. The storm turned further towards the northwest as it traveled through a weakness in a ridge, missing Puerto Rico to the east on August 28." — Too much detail for the lead, just say it tracked farther north and east than anticipated.
  • Done ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 15:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• "The storm developed an eye in satellite imagery soon after, but dry air still continued to disrupt the system. The commencement of an eyewall replacement cycle on August 29 temporarily impeded intensification, but Dorian completed the cycle the next morning and soon resumed strengthening." — Too much detail for the lead, just say intensification temporarily stagnated.
  • Cut the details. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 15:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• "A spurt of rapid deepening beginning August 30 saw Dorian develop a distinct, sharply-defined eye within a symmetric central dense overcast." — There's no mention of a central dense overcast in the body of the article for the period referenced.
  • Removed mention and more technical stuff. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 15:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• "Steady weakening took place thereafter as Dorian moved over Grand Bahama and slowed to a standstill due to the collapse of the aforementioned steering ridge; however, Dorian remained a major hurricane until it began to move away from the Bahamas late on September 3, after which Dorian weakened into a Category 2 hurricane." — run on sentence.
  • Split and condensed ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 15:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• "On September 5, Dorian moved over the Gulf Stream. The warm waters rejuvenated the system, allowing it to briefly reintensify into a major hurricane off the coast of Georgia." — The Gulf Stream is not mentioned anywhere else in the article. This can also be condensed into one sentence: "On September 5, Dorian briefly reorganized into a Category 3 hurricane as it traversed the warm waters of the Gulf Stream."
  • Applied that wording, added mention of Gulf Stream further below. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 15:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Origins and track through the Lesser Antilles

• "Convection" is used in three consecutive sentences at the start of the first paragraph. Condensing these usages or using synonyms is preferable.

• Swapped one out. Noah^Talk 23:09, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

• "As the wave traveled westward across the low latitudes of the Atlantic..." — The link to tropics here seems inappropriate for "low latitudes". The tropics are a much broader region than what is considered low-latitude for hurricanes.

• Will be no link then. Noah^Talk 23:09, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

• "...however, it quickly organized into a tropical depression at 06:00 UTC on August 24..." — Source does not support "quickly organized"

• Removed. Noah^Talk 23:09, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

• The description of Dorian's slow intensification as a tropical storm flip flops a lot with abundant uses of "however" and "despite". Streamlining this to describe it as intensification within somewhat adverse conditions followed by stagnation would improve the flow and be less confusing.

• Removed all the weird usages. Let me know if that is better. Noah^Talk 23:09, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

• Removed all mentions of structural changes during the stagnation as it is just whale fat. Noah^Talk 01:18, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• "The tropical cyclone continued westward under the influence of a subtropical ridge to its north." — No need to repeat what hasn't changed. This can be remedied by stating the westward movement was over a period of x days when you first mention it and include mention of the ridge there.

• Removed but it would be OR to include the ridge that early on since the first/second mentions predate all NHC warnings and the TCR/TWOs never mention it either. Noah^Talk 01:56, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• The first four sentences of the second paragraph can easily be condensed to state the track shifted east from Hispaniola to east of Puerto Rico rather than mentioning it twice. The cause of the change in track should be mentioned earlier.

• Done... who cares what the NHC forecast at that point? Noah^Talk 01:56, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• The intensification over the Virgin Islands can be smoothed out to simply say it was intensifying as it traversed the islands rather than saying it was intensifying, made landfall, and then was intensifying.

• I never cut off the intensification. I said it strengthened as it was making landfall and then showed it at a stronger intensity on the second island. I did cut out all the detail of specific intensities at each landfall and simplified it into one sentence. Noah^Talk 02:15, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• The temporary stagnation of intensification can be described as such, it doesn't need to be so drawn out. State that a temporary increase in wind shear and dry air halted the intensification. The exact speed of the shear isn't needed, most readers have no context for what that means.

• Cut the speed, removed the mention of the rainfilled eye, and simplified the description. Noah^Talk 02:15, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Rapid intensification and landfalls over the Bahamas

• A link to rapid deepening should be included somewhere
  • Added ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 05:38, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• "With Dorian passing over sea surface temperatures of 29 °C (84 °F), the NHC noted strengthening was unlikely to have ended." — This feels a bit unnecessary as there's nothing in the paragraph to indicate it would have weakened.
  • Moved the SSTs to the earlier part about the favorable environment. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 05:38, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• "... making Dorian the strongest hurricane to impact the northwestern Bahamas on record." — This is stated too early, nothing prior indicates the hurricane was near the Bahamas. You can add that it was heading toward the Bahamas when mentioning the shift in movement.
  • Done ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 05:38, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• "The system moved off the north coast of Grand Bahama six hours later still as a Category 5 hurricane..." — TCR has it moving off the northern coast as it weakened to a Category 4
  • On page 3 the TCR states: "It exited along the north coast of [Grand Bahama] 6 h later (cover figure). By then, the eye became larger, and the winds had decreased to 140 kt". I assumed this meant it moved off the coast at Category 5 somewhere between 08:00 and 09:00 UTC. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 05:38, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
  • I misread it then, my bad ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 05:50, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Northward turn, extratropical transition, and dissipation

• "Dorian began a northwestward motion late on September 3 after having stalled over the Bahamas, as a eastward-moving mid-level trough over the Eastern United States pulled Dorian to the north." — Mention where the storm is going (towards the US) rather than where it was.

• Fixed. Noah^Talk 02:53, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• "After about 12 hours, Dorian began to gradually weaken; increasing wind shear and dry air further contributed to the process." — Wind shear and dry air would be the initial cause not just an accelerant.

• Removed any mention of the shear and dry air for that time. Noah^Talk 02:53, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• "Despite this, the storm still possessed a well-defined eye surrounded by deep convection." — what is this contrasting? The preceding sentence is about the landfall, there's nothing about the storm's structure.

• Fixed. Noah^Talk 02:53, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• "Early on September 7, Dorian began to undergo the transition to an extratropical cyclone. The eye completely disappeared from satellite imagery as the storm began to take on a more asymmetric structure.[32] The hurricane continued to weaken due to strong southwesterly shear, with most of its convection displaced to the north and east of the center.[33] Soon after, cold air clouds began to entrain on Dorian's southwestern side as the storm connected with a warm front that was developing to the northeast." — The TCR does not indicate weakening taking place during this transitionary period until the end.

• Meant to say its structure degraded. Noah^Talk 02:53, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• "Despite this, the NHC opted to continue issuing advisories on the system due to the extreme threat it posed to Atlantic Canada." — Usage of "despite" is inappropriate here as it's standard procedure for the NHC to continue advisories on a system threatening land. The source also doesn't support it being an "extreme threat".

• Not really inappropriate since it is saying that "despite being post-tropical, the advisories continued because it was threatening land". I doubt the readers would know the NHCs procedures and would be confused that they continued issuing on a non-tropical cyclone. Noah^Talk 02:53, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• I guess this is more of a personal nitpick since continuing advisories is a normal practice, but the source does say "despite" so it's fine. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 20:29, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• "By September 9, virtually no convection existed near the center of Dorian." — source says "no significant convection" not convection altogether

• Changed. Noah^Talk 02:53, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Records

• "...as well as the strongest in the Bahamas.[21] Dorian's 185 mph (295 km/h) landfalls on Abaco Island and Grand Bahama were the strongest on record for the island nation." — Redundant mentions of it being the strongest in the Bahamas. TCR states only one of the landfalls was at peak intensity.

• Done. Noah^Talk 02:59, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Other

• Prose used mdy for dates while the refs had inconsistent formatting. I've gone ahead and swapped all dates to mdy.
• Images are all public domain and usable
• No copyvio issues
• References are stable and/or archived and reliable

A prominent issue in the article is wordiness, especially in early parts. Things are stated more times than necessary and in separate sentences when it can be smoothed out concisely. Some article links are in weird places later in the article than they should be. For example, SSTs, convection, and maximum sustained winds are linked in the third section. Links should be at their earliest mention and only once. Placing the article on hold to allow time for corrections. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 22:15, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

@Cyclonebiskit: Is there anything else that should be done for GA and prep for FAC? Noah^Talk 18:11, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Well done to both of you, I'm passing the article. My review covers what was needed for GA-criteria. Additional work is needed for FAC; however, an editor with a sharper eye than myself would be better for that kind of assessment. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 20:29, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

A-class review

For this article's inevitable FAC:

• Could the lede be three evenly spaced paragraphs?

• Had to make it 2 per MOS; the size is about the same as slightly smaller articles so I dont see an issue here. Noah^Talk 19:53, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• "Dorian made landfalls in Barbados and St. Lucia" - should it be "in" or "on"? I thought if it's a small island, it's "on". The TCR says "over" here, but this TCR uses "landfall on". It's a nitpick, so I don't know if there's any official right/wrong

• Changed some to "at" and others to "on". Noah^Talk 19:53, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• "passed by Puerto Rico to the east on August 28" --> "passed east of Puerto Rico on..."

• fixed. Noah^Talk 19:53, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• "and was absorbed by a larger extratropical cyclone on September 9. " - infobox says dissipation was on 9/10, please fix

• done. Noah^Talk 19:53, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• Could you split "Origins and track through the Lesser Antilles" section into three paragraphs? The first one is long. I suggest splitting where the storm formed

• Done. Noah^Talk 19:53, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• "The National Hurricane Center (NHC) initially predicted slow development on August 23 as the system continued westward,[3] however, it organized into a tropical depression at 06:00 UTC on August 24, while approximately 805 mi (1,295 km) east-southeast of Barbados." - the antecedent for "it" here is NHC, but surely the NHC didn't organize into a TD :P

• oops. Noah^Talk 19:53, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• "While Dorian was located in an environment of warm sea surface temperatures, it initially intensified before the trend all but ceased over the next few days as a result of wind shear as well as abundant mid-level dry air." - could you simplify?

• Split into two sentences. Noah^Talk 19:53, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• Bit of a nitpick, but could you make sure refs are in order, so, for instance, ref 1 appears before ref 8?

• Should be done. Noah^Talk 20:48, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• "Soon after, Dorian's center re-developed farther north and convection fluctuated as the storm continued to be battered by dry air and interacted with the Leeward and Windward islands.' - I suggest splitting into two sentences, this is a lot for one

• Done. Noah^Talk 20:48, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• "Although Dorian was initially forecast to make landfall in Hispaniola and subsequently weaken or dissipate over the island, the system's track shifted east of Puerto Rico by August 28 as a result of directional change as well as the aforementioned center reformation." - I'm not a fan of the "aforementioned". I thought articles aren't supposed to be self-referential.

• Removed. Noah^Talk 20:48, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• I just noticed, you didn't really specify what was the basis for Dorian being upgraded to a hurricane.

• NHC doesnt really mention why... this occurred at an intermediate and the TCR doesnt mention. The storm was already stronger by the next discussion and no hurricane winds were observed until close to the second landfall. Noah^Talk 20:48, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• "This caused Dorian to track west-northwest into a highly favorable environment characterized by low wind shear, high relative humidity,[1] and sea surface temperatures of 29 °C (84 °F), then west straight towards the northwestern Bahamas." - the last part (then west straight) seems unrelated to the highly favorable environment

• This sentence is more about that event causing the storm to track this way and then another. The first one just happened to be into a favorable environment so that was mentioned. Noah^Talk 20:48, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• "Northward turn, extratropical transition, and dissipation" - could this also be split in three paragraphs?
• Is it worth mentioning the NHC's predictions of a Florida C5 landfall?

• Probably best saved for the US article since this wasn't nearly as important as the other one. Noah^Talk 20:48, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• Could you mention where Dorian reached its secondary peak?

• done. Noah^Talk 20:48, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• Could you go into detail on the difference between Dorian becoming a post-tropical cyclone and it becoming fully extratropical? Something with fronts, probably

• I think anything on this would hinge on being OR as a post tropical cyclone can be an extratropical cyclone. The NHC does not mention much in terms of differences between the two. Noah^Talk 20:48, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• "Dorian was ultimately absorbed by a larger extratropical cyclone at 06:00 UTC on September 9." - could you add roughly where this happened?

• Did as much as I could Noah^Talk 20:52, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• "as well as the strongest in the Bahamas" - the ref just says "northwestern Bahamas", but given Dorian's intensity, I bet it was the strongest in the country. Could you get a ref backing that up? It seems like the subsequent sentence kinda says the same thing

• I just removed that part. Noah^Talk 20:52, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

All in all the article is in pretty good shape. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:38, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink: That should be it. Noah^Talk 20:52, 10 May 2020 (UTC)